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kb305 wrote:
theres the khan stupidity OP. GW has asians in power armor, dont lose sight of that. i also ask myself all the time: why no blacks in 40k? then i think well atleast GW has the asians covered and it helps me sleep at night.

There are, actually.

In the 4th ed rule book there's some black minis, iirc.
One of them looks like Mister T.

It's the same as a lot of fiction. Almost everyone is white and male because that is "the normal", unless part of their theme is race-specific (White Scars, Desert Raiders, etc) or gender-specific (Sisters of Battle). Hell, even Eldar are white and male! The Necrontyr would probably be the same, if not for the whole big metal accident.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 Idolator wrote:


Race is a fictional construct anyway. It doesn't truly exist. There are physical traits that are more prominently expressed in certain regions due to isolation and environmental demands. Africans can tolerate prolonged sun exposure better while Europeans can withstand prolonged sunlight deprivation better.

Anyone with even a basic understanding of biology knows that sub-species are a real thing and that there are, yes, different sub-species (races) of humans. Different IQ averages, different muscle and ligament insertions and differing tolerances are all due to having evolved in different places in the world.

You seem to lack that basic understanding of biology, because while sub-species are a real thing, there is only one scientifically recognized extant sub-species of humans, Homo sapiens sapiens, and EVERY living human being on the planet is a member of it. So no, race is an artificial social construct created from fake science. Ethnicity, on the other hand, is a social construct based on common ancestral/social/cultural/national experience, nobody ever claimed it to be a scientific construct (unlike race).

Saying that dark skinned humans can withstand longer and harsher periods of sunlight and that light skinned can withstand longer period of darkness is a fact not a distinction of a subspecies. So to tell you the truth, only someone with a very, very basic understanding of biology would recognize that there are different sub species of humans.

Hallelujah, preach brother.

In all honesty, it's more likely that people will be brown colored in the future. Hispanic, Latino, and black genes are more dominant

As a 'hybrid' myself, I have to ask what this is being based on? I'm 50% hispanic (Dominican as a matter of fact), yet I look 100% German/Hungarian. The usual response I get when I tell someone I'm Dominican is "Get the feth out!? NO WAY!" Keep in mind that most of my family on my moms side (the Dominican half of me) might as well be black.

My earlier statement, which you quoted, was a mild jibe to indicate the lack of understanding presented by the fellow that I quoted. As there is no real difference in races, genetic variability among individuals is greater than that of these supposed "races". His statements that he made hearken back to the discredited field of study known as Eugenics, which was popular in the early 20th century and a cornerstone of certain race based ideologies and political movements.

Social Darwinism. Antisemitism. Racial hygenicism. White Supremacism. Black Supremacism. etc. Pretty much nothing that any person with an actual understanding of science would want to be a part of.

Anyway, I think the other posters summed it up pretty well, white because thats the culture that the game designers came from, fluff wise, the Imperium is very racially diverse, though planetary populations tend to be fairly homogeneous. Also, some of the Horus Heresy books kinda suggest that by that point humanity (on Terra at any rate) has become a true melting pot and ethnicity no longer applies.

I seem to recall a black Catachan Jungle Warrior or two from Back in The Day?!

Pretty sure one was a Sarge with a big cigar.

Awesome sauce.

My army :

(Well, a very small part of it, but they are all like that).
My “canon” justification :

(On the left)
Official artwork, as far as I can tell.

I'd like to know why no one ever asks where all the Indians, Arabs, and Asians are in 40K. People only ever ask why there aren't more blacks. I'm 99% sure that Asians (Orientals, not including Indians) are the largest "racial" group in the world, followed by white Caucasians. I'm also pretty sure that blacks are the smallest "racial" group globally. If anything, humans in 40k should be predominantly Asian, not white.

Maybe the colonists in the Dark Age of Technology were mostly white? That would explain the prevalance of white people throughout the galaxy.

According to their latest novella "Blood and Fire" By ADB (sequel to Helsreach), the Celestial Lions Space Marines are Black. Which means I might need to repaint mine since I did them before that book came out. They are basically an African Tribe turned Space Marine Chapter, which presents some cool fluff stories being sons of Dorn.

Seriously, anyone who needs "canon" justification is on the wrong page here. Unless an army is specifically called out as having one specific skin color in the fluff (like Salamanders being charcoal black and Mordians/Night Lords being super pale) paint your spacemans any color you want. Even then, they're your models, so paint them contrary to fluff if you really want to. The universe is a big place and there's gonna be a lot of variance.

 j31c3n wrote:
My marines are multiethnic. But they're also smart, so they don't take off their helmets during battle. So it doesn't show on the models.

Exactly. All my marines are white and gold.
My demons are purple, red, and blue.
My guard are mostly khaki, mostly because I hate painting flesh and I couldn't generally be arsed to change colors from other parts of the uniform.

Would this be an awkward time to mention that this is the same company that made a Goblin war machine in WHFB called a "Spear Chukka"?

...

Just a thought it might be due to the big PC push. You can make a white model do just about anything or be dressed like a clown and no one says anything. Most companies try to avoid the " your raciest" stamp like the plague. But this is just a theory. Hope I didn't offend anyone.

Think of it scientifically, There are only so many humans at this point in time.Give us another 30,000 years, and natural selection will blend all races together for an overall even look across the human race.
It's more about genetics than anything else.

Now, that said, I highly doubt GW writers gave any thought to that point of view, but it would make sense.

We haven't been around that long, but I have a feeling that this is where the human race is headed.

 Idolator wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 Idolator wrote:


Race is a fictional construct anyway. It doesn't truly exist. There are physical traits that are more prominently expressed in certain regions due to isolation and environmental demands. Africans can tolerate prolonged sun exposure better while Europeans can withstand prolonged sunlight deprivation better.

There is so much cognitive dissonance here: "Race is a fictional construct, but here's some example of how there are different sub-species of humans anyway".

Anyone with even a basic understanding of biology knows that sub-species are a real thing and that there are, yes, different sub-species (races) of humans. Different IQ averages, different muscle and ligament insertions and differing tolerances are all due to having evolved in different places in the world.

As for this topic, my Imperial Guard are all white/Aryan. B-b-but muh diversity?!!!
They're all from a hive world so it makes perfect sense. A ton of Imperial humans are from hive worlds and thus it's logical that many of them are more pale-skinned due to evolutionary demands.

While there is a diverse series of genetic combinations that can occur in Homo Sapiens Sapiens, all can interbreed and produce genetically viable offspring. Skin coloration has as much to do with race as hair or eye color. No one would classify Swedes as a different race than Greeks although their skin, eye and hair coloration are farther apart than Greeks and Arabs. Arabs in their own classification range from dark brown to pale white with a multitude of eye coloration. Heck, Iranians and Northern Indians are Aryans. So "White folks" Range in color from dark brown to pale white.....Are you beginning to see the ridiculousness of it all yet.

Yes, and wolves and dogs can interbreed and produce genetically viable offspring as well but nobody would call a German Shepherd a wolf.

Even the term "race" has changed many times over the years ranging from classifying different languages and cultures only (Such as Ukrainian race or Irish race) up to what is used today.

Hence why I used the word subspecies as it tends to be a more accurate description as opposed to race which gets thrown around a lot.

It's not just me saying that Race is a societal construct. Check the Wikipedia entry for "Race". Here's the first sentence.

There is a wide consensus that the racial categories that are common in everyday usage are socially constructed, and that racial groups cannot be biologically defined

There are citations that you can follow if you don't want to take Wikipedia as a source. (That's truly the best way to use Wikipedia, for all you out there that can't use it a source, to find actual sources that you can use) It's a rather long entry and worth a read.

Nevermind the fact that there are again, different muscle insertions, different IQ average values, and different skull shapes for the different races and that's all been proven as well. That is, unless you want to say that an average aboriginal and an average Swede has the exact same bone structure and intelligence values.

Saying that dark skinned humans can withstand longer and harsher periods of sunlight and that light skinned can withstand longer period of darkness is a fact not a distinction of a subspecies. So to tell you the truth, only someone with a very, very basic understanding of biology would recognize that there are different sub species of humans.

Again, I used that word because race changes around a lot and I believe that it was more descriptive for this purpose. We are all humans, yes, but just like there are different breeds of dogs (German Shepherd, Labradors, Dachshunds) there are also different humans

Orkhead wrote:
Just a thought it might be due to the big PC push. You can make a white model do just about anything or be dressed like a clown and no one says anything. Most companies try to avoid the " your raciest" stamp like the plague. But this is just a theory. Hope I didn't offend anyone.

Yep, it's easy for companies to get away with making fun of white people whereas any other race gets a free pass. Because remember, white people are evil! DDD

Johnnytorrance wrote:
I just started playing in Nov. one of the things I noticed is, I never see illustrations or painted models of black people?

Are there not any black people in the future?

In all honesty, it's more likely that people will be brown colored in the future. Hispanic, Latino, and black genes are more dominant and considering how much inter racial relationships are more common than ever it's going to eventually be a new race of people.

There are! Look up I.G. Penal Legion and Ogryns...

I always assumed many of the minority races were ethnically cleansed in the horrific, genocidal millennia between the present and the great crusade.

 dpal666 wrote:
Think of it scientifically, There are only so many humans at this point in time.Give us another 30,000 years, and natural selection will blend all races together for an overall even look across the human race.
It's more about genetics than anything else.

Now, that said, I highly doubt GW writers gave any thought to that point of view, but it would make sense.

We haven't been around that long, but I have a feeling that this is where the human race is headed.

By that logic all humans would be olive skinned, with dark eyes, and black hair.

Racism in the imperium, that's why I serve Xenos and Chaos...

Just dug out my old copy of Deathwing a set of short stories published 1993. In that the Dark Angel Marines, clad in black tactical Dreadnaught armour were named in the fashion of Native Americans e.g. Cloud Runner, Two Heads Talking, seemed to come from/recruit from a planet that was tribally organised. (For those who haven't read the story, it explains why the DA First Company are now in white)

Another story, Monastery of Death, seemed to be Oriental, possibly Japanese in style/derivation.

So I think, at least in the early GW literature, that the human universe had been populated for most of the cultures from the 'home planet'.

As to why more models aren't explicitly phenotyped, or at least painted that way, is down to the sculptors and ultimately ourselves.

In terms of a possible bias, it seems that 50% of the populated are woefully under-represented! Apart from SoB, and some Chaos figures, there seems to be a lack of the female form as part of the fighting, or even logistics, part of the 40k universe.

No one in the Imperium cares about the color of your skin when there's that thing over there with the mutli-faceted eyes and the scything talons for limbs.

 Psienesis wrote:
No one in the Imperium cares about the color of your skin when there's that thing over there with the mutli-faceted eyes and the scything talons for limbs.

Good point, well made.

Also, the overly aggressive mushrooms with big teeth and piggy eyes don't really care either.

Because artists can only paint themselves.

That's more of a philosophical stance than a literal one though. I expect if there was a coloured artist in the studio, we'd see more coloured characters.

StewRat wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
No one in the Imperium cares about the color of your skin when there's that thing over there with the mutli-faceted eyes and the scything talons for limbs.

Good point, well made.

Also, the overly aggressive mushrooms with big teeth and piggy eyes don't really care either.

Heh, this made me think of Discworld

Racism was not a problem on the Discworld, because — what with trolls and dwarfs and so on — speciesism was more interesting. Black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Imperium is loaded with genetically homogenous populations due to the difficulty of Warp travel. So yes, there are black people, but not on the planets GW likes to show off. Jonah Orion from DoW2-Chaos Rising is a rare canon black person, the Salamanders all have jet-black skin and red eyes, but other than that GW's spotlight poster folks are pretty much all Caucasian.

Don't forget the Inquisitor Toth. He was a badass with a cool voice.

If the emperor wasn't a vegetable, they wouldn't be so damn racist...

But they aren't racist. They accept all humans, no matter their skin color. They are, however, quite specieist.

There are, in fluff the salamanders are all African imperial (Can't really say African american) and model wise, it just depends on how you paint them.

Salamanders are actually black-black, not African-black. Jet black black. Crayola Black black.

Jonah Orion was pretty cool.

Brother SRM wrote:It always boils down to this being a game written by a bunch of white English guys, so the universe is populated by a bunch of white English guys. It's a case of people writing what they know.

And, more importantly, a vast sea of players and fanfic writers who can't figure out that there are skin tones other than white.

And people who just assume that everyone is white and then ask why GW is racist...