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I just started playing in Nov. one of the things I noticed is, I never see illustrations or painted models of black people?

Are there not any black people in the future?

In all honesty, it's more likely that people will be brown colored in the future. Hispanic, Latino, and black genes are more dominant and considering how much inter racial relationships are more common than ever it's going to eventually be a new race of people.

The Imperium is loaded with genetically homogenous populations due to the difficulty of Warp travel. So yes, there are black people, but not on the planets GW likes to show off. Jonah Orion from DoW2-Chaos Rising is a rare canon black person, the Salamanders all have jet-black skin and red eyes, but other than that GW's spotlight poster folks are pretty much all Caucasian.

The real reason is because the writers and painters of Games Workshop are white and paint/write/draw what they know. In addition, it's easier just to paint one skin tone over an entire army than to vary it a bit.

I think that's the only reason. There should be distinctly dark skinned people in 40k since there are desert/hot environments out there.

There are people of every shape, shade, color, genetic expression and trait you can imagine... and many that you cannot... within the Imperium.

Edit: Stupid double post

I think its funny given the size of the Imperium that it seams we are more likely to see a space marine than a person of color.

The truth is however that most people will paint them to be white because they themselves are white. I don't see to many black people playing the game. I however have some different races in many different shades in most of my armies.

White skin just seams easier to paint though I'll be honest.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumansAreWhite
40k is Fantasy/Sci-Fi. In almost all works of fantasy and sci-fi the vast majority of humans are white. This is because the people writing it are usually white too, as is most of the audience.
In 40k, there are some dark people around (DoW has a black librarian and there are several dark people in BL novels) There are also dark-skinned people in the SW codex (black vikings ftw).
Of course, you can also paint your models any colour you want.

In the future, people will likely have the same variations in colours they do now, or perhaps even more, as skin colour is influenced by the environment/climate.

Salamanders are black

Salamanders.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can paint up your minis however you want though. SoB, Guard, SM, etc...

Salamanders WERE "black" in the sense of African, now they are charcoal skinned daemons with glowing red eyes.. which GW claims they were always supposed to be.

Uurgh. Those sallies are terrible.
I always thought the scars were weather beaten brown and the fists were inuit brown. Well Dorn anyway.
Though on a hive world people wouldnt being seeing much sun light so theyd be lighter.
Besides marines are what ever they need to be with the melanchromic organ.

It always boils down to this being a game written by a bunch of white English guys, so the universe is populated by a bunch of white English guys. It's a case of people writing what they know. There is not a single thing keeping you from painting your models in any skin tone you'd like. A number of Black Library novels have more ethnically diverse characters also.

The creators of the game are Northern European and draw/write about what they know. Far and away, the majority of their customers are European or are of European descent, and in order to gain sales you want your customer base to identify with your product.

Latino and Hispanic are not races, they are ethnicities based or a language and culture and is compromised of many races and cultures. I would think that Pedro Cantor would fall within that subset. Coteaz is also a Hispanic name.

Race is a fictional construct anyway. It doesn't truly exist. There are physical traits that are more prominently expressed in certain regions due to isolation and environmental demands. Africans can tolerate prolonged sun exposure better while Europeans can withstand prolonged sunlight deprivation better.

There are two Space Marine Chapters that fall within the categories that you mention. The White Scars are East Asian and the Salamanders are now coal black, but were originally racially based on Afro-Caribbean.

If you are looking for plausible explanations for fluff reasons.
There is also the fact that this is set 38,000 years into the future after thousands of wars, diseases, alien incursions, disasters and catastrophes. Who knows what may have happened. Several years of a nuclear winter with heavy year round cloud cover would cause many more deaths among those with a higher melanin level in their skin. The same would be the case for those that would have to live underground because of high radiation levels.

-

 Idolator wrote:


Race is a fictional construct anyway. It doesn't truly exist. There are physical traits that are more prominently expressed in certain regions due to isolation and environmental demands. Africans can tolerate prolonged sun exposure better while Europeans can withstand prolonged sunlight deprivation better.

There is so much cognitive dissonance here: "Race is a fictional construct, but here's some example of how there are different sub-species of humans anyway".

Anyone with even a basic understanding of biology knows that sub-species are a real thing and that there are, yes, different sub-species (races) of humans. Different IQ averages, different muscle and ligament insertions and differing tolerances are all due to having evolved in different places in the world.

As for this topic, my Imperial Guard are all white/Aryan. B-b-but muh diversity?!!!
They're all from a hive world so it makes perfect sense. A ton of Imperial humans are from hive worlds and thus it's logical that many of them are more pale-skinned due to evolutionary demands.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 Idolator wrote:


Race is a fictional construct anyway. It doesn't truly exist. There are physical traits that are more prominently expressed in certain regions due to isolation and environmental demands. Africans can tolerate prolonged sun exposure better while Europeans can withstand prolonged sunlight deprivation better.

There is so much cognitive dissonance here: "Race is a fictional construct, but here's some example of how there are different sub-species of humans anyway".

I think what was meant is that the boundaries between races is a sociological construct and it differs between different societies and across time periods.

For example, in the UK Spanish people are considered White. In the USA they would be considered Hispanic.

Another example, at one point in history (of both the USA and the British Isles) Irish people were considered a different ethnicity to White people.

The list goes on.

 Bottle wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 Idolator wrote:


Race is a fictional construct anyway. It doesn't truly exist. There are physical traits that are more prominently expressed in certain regions due to isolation and environmental demands. Africans can tolerate prolonged sun exposure better while Europeans can withstand prolonged sunlight deprivation better.

There is so much cognitive dissonance here: "Race is a fictional construct, but here's some example of how there are different sub-species of humans anyway".

I think what was meant is that the boundaries between races is a sociological construct and it differs between different societies and across time periods.

For example, in the UK Spanish people are considered White. In the USA they would be considered Hispanic.

Another example, at one point in history (of both the USA and the British Isles) Irish people were considered a different ethnicity to White people.

The list goes on.

Ethnicity is a "social construct" (and social constructs are social constructs ad nauseam), the poster I replied to mentioned that race is a construct, even though it isn't.

My marines are multiethnic. But they're also smart, so they don't take off their helmets during battle. So it doesn't show on the models.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 Idolator wrote:


Race is a fictional construct anyway. It doesn't truly exist. There are physical traits that are more prominently expressed in certain regions due to isolation and environmental demands. Africans can tolerate prolonged sun exposure better while Europeans can withstand prolonged sunlight deprivation better.

There is so much cognitive dissonance here: "Race is a fictional construct, but here's some example of how there are different sub-species of humans anyway".

Anyone with even a basic understanding of biology knows that sub-species are a real thing and that there are, yes, different sub-species (races) of humans. Different IQ averages, different muscle and ligament insertions and differing tolerances are all due to having evolved in different places in the world.

As for this topic, my Imperial Guard are all white/Aryan. B-b-but muh diversity?!!!
They're all from a hive world so it makes perfect sense. A ton of Imperial humans are from hive worlds and thus it's logical that many of them are more pale-skinned due to evolutionary demands.

I didn't give examples of subspecies. There is only one species of human with a single classifiable subspecies. That would be Homo Sapiens with the only sub species being Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Look it up.

While there is a diverse series of genetic combinations that can occur in Homo Sapiens Sapiens, all can interbreed and produce genetically viable offspring. Skin coloration has as much to do with race as hair or eye color. No one would classify Swedes as a different race than Greeks although their skin, eye and hair coloration are farther apart than Greeks and Arabs. Arabs in their own classification range from dark brown to pale white with a multitude of eye coloration. Heck, Iranians and Northern Indians are Aryans. So "White folks" Range in color from dark brown to pale white.....Are you beginning to see the ridiculousness of it all yet.

Even the term "race" has changed many times over the years ranging from classifying different languages and cultures only (Such as Ukrainian race or Irish race) up to what is used today.

It's not just me saying that Race is a societal construct. Check the Wikipedia entry for "Race". Here's the first sentence.

There is a wide consensus that the racial categories that are common in everyday usage are socially constructed, and that racial groups cannot be biologically defined

There are citations that you can follow if you don't want to take Wikipedia as a source. (That's truly the best way to use Wikipedia, for all you out there that can't use it a source, to find actual sources that you can use) It's a rather long entry and worth a read.

Saying that dark skinned humans can withstand longer and harsher periods of sunlight and that light skinned can withstand longer period of darkness is a fact not a distinction of a subspecies. So to tell you the truth, only someone with a very, very basic understanding of biology would recognize that there are different sub species of humans.

I'm surprised no one mention Catachans, there are quite a few blacks, there is a black necromunda bounty hunter model, its quite easy to convert your IG to be multi cultural, just look at my immense IG gallery.

Sweet. The last time this thread came up it took like three or four pages before it degenerated into arguments about race relations and perceptions!

It's a new Dakka record!

The next time this post comes up, let's try to do it in HALF the posts!


Back on topic though, of course there are black people in 40k. There just isn't much representation of it in the models. I think you could make Space Marines African black if you wanted to, since their faces have been so warped that race-indicative facial features have largely been obliterated. I assume that there are guard regiments that are black, or from heterogeneous populations and might include some black people.

I don't know any GW models that are definitively made to resemble African features, and intended to be painted with African skin tones. Salamanders are genetic-monster black (which I vastly prefer).

Johnnytorrance wrote:
I just started playing in Nov. one of the things I noticed is, I never see illustrations or painted models of black people?

Are there not any black people in the future?

In all honesty, it's more likely that people will be brown colored in the future. Hispanic, Latino, and black genes are more dominant and considering how much inter racial relationships are more common than ever it's going to eventually be a new race of people.

Yes, you're right. We're all closet racists... or primarily white people in England made the game and primarily white people in America play it. In the Caucasian world, fictional things tend to be Caucasian... weird that.

Of course, if you looked around at the IG fiction, the RT,DH, and DW books, you'd find all types of ethnic diversity... but that's not the point you're trying to make, so nm.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Sweet. The last time this thread came up it took like three or four pages before it degenerated into arguments about race relations and perceptions!

It's a new Dakka record!

The next time this post comes up, let's try to do it in HALF the posts!


Back on topic though, of course there are black people in 40k. There just isn't much representation of it in the models. I think you could make Space Marines African black if you wanted to, since their faces have been so warped that race-indicative facial features have largely been obliterated. I assume that there are guard regiments that are black, or from heterogeneous populations and might include some black people.

I don't know any GW models that are definitively made to resemble African features, and intended to be painted with African skin tones. Salamanders are genetic-monster black (which I vastly prefer).

What are you talking about, Jim?! It started off in the OP. With this little nugget.

In all honesty, it's more likely that people will be brown colored in the future. Hispanic, Latino, and black genes are more dominant

Can't get any sooner than the OP.

The premise of the question itself was a mess.

So is the premise of race, though, so....what can ya do?

I swear, some people will argue about anything. Come on people, you're arguing over a fictional universe where there are no right or wrong answers to anything. If you want to write a sociological thesis, then go sit in a classroom.

So to tell you the truth, only someone with a very, very basic understanding of biology would recognize that there are different sub species of humans.

But with animals you get much the same difference in traits between races of horses , then you have between different races of man and only someone with a very very basic understand of horse breeding would say that there aren't any horse sub species.

Makumba wrote:

So to tell you the truth, only someone with a very, very basic understanding of biology would recognize that there are different sub species of humans.

But with animals you get much the same difference in traits between races of horses , then you have between different races of man and only someone with a very very basic understand of horse breeding would say that there aren't any horse sub species.

To clarify for me, what are the different races of horse? (insert race track joke here) Because I honestly have never heard of horses designated as being of different race.

My earlier statement, which you quoted, was a mild jibe to indicate the lack of understanding presented by the fellow that I quoted. As there is no real difference in races, genetic variability among individuals is greater than that of these supposed "races". His statements that he made hearken back to the discredited field of study known as Eugenics, which was popular in the early 20th century and a cornerstone of certain race based ideologies and political movements.

But back on topic, The models for the game are made by "white dudes" for a game whose players are mostly "white dudes". The best way to market a product is to get the majority demographic to identify with your product. "White dudes" are the decided majority of fans for both science fiction and fantasy. Now if this were an Anime based game, we would probably see more, many more East Asian characters.

Edit: Along with the races of horses, could you tell me the different races of Human? If that's too much to post, just give me a sampling along with the divergence needed to classify as being of a different race.

White Scars are Asian-looking, being about as stereotypical Mongolian as you can get.

The Crimson Fists are lead by the most bad-ass Hispanic in the galaxy. Pedro Kantor will build you a cake or something.

Imperial Gothic is actually a descendent of some of the pacific languages with a bit of English mixed in.

There was some (official) artwork with some sisters of battle who looked really oriental, but I don't know where it was from.

theres the khan stupidity OP. GW has asians in power armor, dont lose sight of that. i also ask myself all the time: why no blacks in 40k? then i think well atleast GW has the asians covered and it helps me sleep at night.

Well, most of humanity live in Hive Worlds, not exactly known for their sunlight. It's also harder to paint dark skin tones well than light skin tones, model-wise.
Still, the reason why 40k doesn't have a lot of black people is because it was started in 1987 in England, do you know how many black people there were in England in 1987?