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Miguelsan wrote:The Veteran thing seems so unwieldy and stupid. If they don't take a Heavy Flamer you can take 3 SW????
Can't we have more simple rules spelled in common English.
M.

The silly thing is that you can take 3 regular Flamers but as soon as you take a Heavy Flamer (apparently) the munitions officer is like "Look mate, you've got a Heavy Flamer, you can't take that as well as 2 other regular Flamers. That's just not cricket"

Miguelsan wrote:
...Same with the Chimera laser "arrays" ugh!

M.

Pretty much. Just leave it at 5 Fire Points GW, really. We don't need Arrays or any other mumbo-jumbo, just plain old Fire Points will do fine.

Happygrunt wrote:
Honestly, I dont even know how to feel about this book. It is literally all over the place.

I think this is how everyone feels. It's pretty nerve wracking reading everything and being like "Yes! no! Yay! WHY?!"

 Happygrunt wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Heavy flamer is 10pts; and (har har!) if vets don't take it, they can still sport 3 Special Weapons instead of 2.

THANK GOD. Nerfing them to two specials and making a lot of armies illegal would have been stupid even by GW's standards. I might not have to give up on the new codex after all!

Yes, Executiooner gains Gets Hot for main weapon..

Sigh. What a stupid change. At least with the decrease in point cost you can buy a divination slave inquisitor to fix the problem and even give it an accuracy boost.

If rumors are true, you won't need an inquisitor to tag along. Sounds like the Primaris or PBS could do it too, those in metas where allies are frowned upon.

Inquisitor is Ld10 and gives servo skulls for more accurate scatters for 64pts, the PBS is Ld8 and 50pts. Inquisitors all the way.

Bad wording but, you can have a heavy flamer and 2 light flamers. Their just pants on head slowed in the wording.

The thing is the codex is like the SM one; there is a ranged/melee/special/Heavy list of items, but since they don't want every Is to sport a Str5 AP4 heavy flamer, they added it to certain units (CCS, PCS, Vets), but it is still a special weapon, just in it's own category so to speak...

Yeah, it's basically the same as 5th edition.

"Up to 3 veterans may take a special weapon. 1 Veteran may take a heavy flamer instead of a special weapon."

It's that kind of thing.

Yup, exactly that.

Does the Scion's hot shot volley gun have gets hot? It is inconsistent in the MT codex.

So company commanders can issue 2 orders platoon leaders can issue 1 correct?

Lascannon still 20 pts?

Can valk take las cannon? And rocket pods?

Is there benefit to taking additional psykers in a pbs, like more warp charge or something

Droppin the bomb
So I peeped the book today at a local store, rumors I can confirm and deny:
Vendettas price hike is legit, 170 and 6 man transport
Manticores price hike 170 pts
Griffon, medusa, and colossus are in fact dropped
Vets remain the same except grenadiers is now 15 pts, and camo cloaks are 10
Leman russes are still 150 bare bones, sorry
You can take an hq tank commander 30 pts however he has to be squadroned with at least 1 other Russ
Primaris psychers are now 1-3 per hq choice
Psycher battle squads are able to use divination, pyromancy, and one other I think telepathy
That's all I remember reading I only checked that main stuff.

Also, all of you guys complaining about the lasgun array, consider this:

They can fire at a different target as the chimera's other weapons, but all 3 on one side must fire at a single target.

Instead of 5 models firing from the top hatch at the same target, you have 3 models on each side of the chimera firing at 2 separate targets in addition to the 2 guys in the top hatch also firing at a different target. On top of that, you have the chimera itself firing at yet another target.

You have 4 different sets of weapons firing at different targets from 1 vehicle.

I don't know about you guys, but I think that is awesome. Another thing to consider is that when you think about it, the firing points didn't drop to 2 people...it increased to 8. That's pretty beast.

 Smitty wrote:


You have 4 different sets of weapons firing at different targets from 1 vehicle.

I don't know about you guys, but I think that is awesome.

You're missing the key aspect of this.

Lasguns

S3 isn't particularly exciting.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

nope; the only thing is that there are 3 senior officer orders only: bring it down, fire on my target and Get back in the fight. The other orders can be given by any model with the voice of command special rule

I thought they cut these orders all together? Especially GBitF!

 kir44n wrote:
Guys. Prescience will NOT save the Executioner from a gets hot test. Prescience makes you reroll to hit, but the BLAST weapon get hots tests are rolled for seperatly from shooting.

Nope. Go check the rules for blast weapons and "gets hot" re-rolls. If you can re-roll to hit (like prescience grants) you can re-roll the die to see if a blast weapon gets hot. Unless the executioner's gun has some special rule that works kind of like "gets hot" but isn't the actual "gets hot" rule then it works just fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:
You're missing the key aspect of this.

Lasguns

S3 isn't particularly exciting.

This. Lasgun arrays are better than nothing, but it's still a nerf since you'd almost always get more benefit from having the extra heavy/special weapons shooting. I guess the idea is they want you to stop using Chimeras as mobile bunkers and actually disembark your melta vets occasionally.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Smitty wrote:


You have 4 different sets of weapons firing at different targets from 1 vehicle.

I don't know about you guys, but I think that is awesome.

You're missing the key aspect of this.

Lasguns

S3 isn't particularly exciting.

How are you not excited about lasguns?

 BunkerBob wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 Smitty wrote:


You have 4 different sets of weapons firing at different targets from 1 vehicle.

I don't know about you guys, but I think that is awesome.

You're missing the key aspect of this.

Lasguns

S3 isn't particularly exciting.

How are you not excited about lasguns?

This is the Imperial Guard! The lasgun is the holy wrath of The Emperor made manifest! Although one may fail, the combined might of a thousand can fell the greatest beasts in the galaxy!

 Peregrine wrote:

 kir44n wrote:
Guys. Prescience will NOT save the Executioner from a gets hot test. Prescience makes you reroll to hit, but the BLAST weapon get hots tests are rolled for seperatly from shooting.

Nope. Go check the rules for blast weapons and "gets hot" re-rolls. If you can re-roll to hit (like prescience grants) you can re-roll the die to see if a blast weapon gets hot. Unless the executioner's gun has some special rule that works kind of like "gets hot" but isn't the actual "gets hot" rule then it works just fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:
You're missing the key aspect of this.

Lasguns

S3 isn't particularly exciting.

This. Lasgun arrays are better than nothing, but it's still a nerf since you'd almost always get more benefit from having the extra heavy/special weapons shooting. I guess the idea is they want you to stop using Chimeras as mobile bunkers and actually disembark your melta vets occasionally.

And I have been corrected. Though with the cheapest Psyker being 50 points, that makes a psyker mandatory for the executioner. So this means the price decrease for the executioner is completely absorbed by its psychic babysitter.

 BunkerBob wrote:


How are you not excited about lasguns?

If it was a Lasgun array that was 50 shots, sure.

At 12", 6 shots is like a light tickling. Then again, you might distract your opponent long enough while they're laughing.

Jex please help! My army revolves around Creed...

Can you give me the full rules on him? Including:

- How many orders a turn?
- Points?
- Order Range?
- Special Rules?
- Addition Creed Orders?
- Anything else of note?

EDIT: Double post. No idea why

 Smitty wrote:
Also, all of you guys complaining about the lasgun array, consider this:

They can fire at a different target as the chimera's other weapons, but all 3 on one side must fire at a single target.

Instead of 5 models firing from the top hatch at the same target, you have 3 models on each side of the chimera firing at 2 separate targets in addition to the 2 guys in the top hatch also firing at a different target. On top of that, you have the chimera itself firing at yet another target.

You have 4 different sets of weapons firing at different targets from 1 vehicle.

I don't know about you guys, but I think that is awesome. Another thing to consider is that when you think about it, the firing points didn't drop to 2 people...it increased to 8. That's pretty beast.

Except that it's complicated. KISS principle GW! Instead of grabbing 10 dies (or whatever) and rolling on one target and done; now you go e.g. 2 against this target (melta vets), another 6 against those orks over there (1 array), the multilaser against the same target of the meltas, the second array can't target the guys in front but can caress some grots over the other side....
See how much I had to write to describe the new rule. This ruling, better or not, does not make for streamlined play.

M.

 Peregrine wrote:

 kir44n wrote:
Guys. Prescience will NOT save the Executioner from a gets hot test. Prescience makes you reroll to hit, but the BLAST weapon get hots tests are rolled for seperatly from shooting.

Nope. Go check the rules for blast weapons and "gets hot" re-rolls. If you can re-roll to hit (like prescience grants) you can re-roll the die to see if a blast weapon gets hot. Unless the executioner's gun has some special rule that works kind of like "gets hot" but isn't the actual "gets hot" rule then it works just fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:
You're missing the key aspect of this.

Lasguns

S3 isn't particularly exciting.

This. Lasgun arrays are better than nothing, but it's still a nerf since you'd almost always get more benefit from having the extra heavy/special weapons shooting. I guess the idea is they want you to stop using Chimeras as mobile bunkers and actually disembark your melta vets occasionally.

They are better than nothing. What I would have preferred is for them to let the top hatch allow for 3 guardsmen to fire instead of 2. I'm sure the lasgun arrays will bring about some surprises. It's certainly volume of fire, although it's not 3 special weapons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AkhilleusK42 wrote:
EDIT: Double post. No idea why

I only see one post on my end. It happens to me sometimes. When in doubt, hover over the "Edit" button and see if the post number is the same. If it is, then it's not a double post.

Trickstick wrote:Does the Scion's hot shot volley gun have gets hot? It is inconsistent in the MT codex.

nope, they're not gets hot, but are Str3 ,except the volley gun which is Str4

RegulusBlack wrote:So company commanders can issue 2 orders platoon leaders can issue 1 correct?

Lascannon still 20 pts?

Can valk take las cannon? And rocket pods?

Is there benefit to taking additional psykers in a pbs, like more warp charge or something

1-Yes, both got a 12 inch range now.
2-for troope yes, for vehicles they are 10 pts
3-Yes, and yes for 10 pts each, so rockets are 20 pts cheaper this time around...really it seems like there's a Mechanicus fire sale somewhere everything for vehicles is cheaper.

it's brotherhood of psykers..so I don't know that rule..maybe more strength?

 Sparkadia wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

nope; the only thing is that there are 3 senior officer orders only: bring it down, fire on my target and Get back in the fight. The other orders can be given by any model with the voice of command special rule

I thought they cut these orders all together? Especially GBitF!

Well a senior officer can give them all, while a junior officer can only give 6 out of 9 of them.

 jae4x4 wrote:
Jex please help! My army revolves around Creed...

Can you give me the full rules on him? Including:

- How many orders a turn?
- Points?
- Order Range?
- Special Rules?
- Addition Creed Orders?
- Anything else of note?

Jaxx has already spilled that he's 80 points and issues 3 orders a turn, with re-rolls if any fail.

I also have a Q:

1) Are Scions in the Dex, and can they use C:AM orders? Are C:MT orders in the Dex, if yes and yes?

Yeah, they made the Chimera more complicated, less effective, and more expensive.

Great that it didn't get quite as hosed as we thought, but it's not like the lasgun shots are particularly impressive (at optimal range, with both arrays firing, you kill 2 guardsmen on average, or 2/3rds of a Marine), and it makes the Chimera just that more complicated to keep track of.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 jae4x4 wrote:
Jex please help! My army revolves around Creed...

Can you give me the full rules on him? Including:

- How many orders a turn?
- Points?
- Order Range?
- Special Rules?
- Addition Creed Orders?
- Anything else of note?

Jaxx has already spilled that he's 80 points and issues 3 orders a turn, with re-rolls if any fail.

I also have a Q:

1) Are Scions in the Dex, and can they use C:AM orders? Are C:MT orders in the Dex, if yes and yes?

Yup, I answered that higher.

Scions are in the dex, with the command squad, like in WD, same value and gear and such, they can use the orders (since the Prime got the voice of command special rule, so 1 order/turn, but only him) and no their own orders from C:MT are not there.

 Smitty wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 kir44n wrote:
Guys. Prescience will NOT save the Executioner from a gets hot test. Prescience makes you reroll to hit, but the BLAST weapon get hots tests are rolled for seperatly from shooting.

Nope. Go check the rules for blast weapons and "gets hot" re-rolls. If you can re-roll to hit (like prescience grants) you can re-roll the die to see if a blast weapon gets hot. Unless the executioner's gun has some special rule that works kind of like "gets hot" but isn't the actual "gets hot" rule then it works just fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:
You're missing the key aspect of this.

Lasguns

S3 isn't particularly exciting.

This. Lasgun arrays are better than nothing, but it's still a nerf since you'd almost always get more benefit from having the extra heavy/special weapons shooting. I guess the idea is they want you to stop using Chimeras as mobile bunkers and actually disembark your melta vets occasionally.

They are better than nothing. What I would have preferred is for them to let the top hatch allow for 3 guardsmen to fire instead of 2. I'm sure the lasgun arrays will bring about some surprises. It's certainly volume of fire, although it's not 3 special weapons.

If it was 3 Hatch / 3 Left / 3 Right that would be boss. I'm not concerned about the loss of Lasgun shots, only that now the third Special Weapon Vet is twiddling his thumbs while in a Chimera.

Anyone know of good substitutes for rough riders?

Jex, I may have missed it, but was there any change to the pricing of Camo Netting, and does it still only apply if the vehicle is stationary?

-thanks!

 Sparkadia wrote:

 Smitty wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 kir44n wrote:
Guys. Prescience will NOT save the Executioner from a gets hot test. Prescience makes you reroll to hit, but the BLAST weapon get hots tests are rolled for seperatly from shooting.

Nope. Go check the rules for blast weapons and "gets hot" re-rolls. If you can re-roll to hit (like prescience grants) you can re-roll the die to see if a blast weapon gets hot. Unless the executioner's gun has some special rule that works kind of like "gets hot" but isn't the actual "gets hot" rule then it works just fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:
You're missing the key aspect of this.

Lasguns

S3 isn't particularly exciting.

This. Lasgun arrays are better than nothing, but it's still a nerf since you'd almost always get more benefit from having the extra heavy/special weapons shooting. I guess the idea is they want you to stop using Chimeras as mobile bunkers and actually disembark your melta vets occasionally.

They are better than nothing. What I would have preferred is for them to let the top hatch allow for 3 guardsmen to fire instead of 2. I'm sure the lasgun arrays will bring about some surprises. It's certainly volume of fire, although it's not 3 special weapons.

If it was 3 Hatch / 3 Left / 3 Right that would be boss. I'm not concerned about the loss of Lasgun shots, only that now the third Special Weapon Vet is twiddling his thumbs while in a Chimera.

Alternatively, it could be a plasma vet waiting for one of the others to vaporize himself.

 tjnorwoo wrote:
Anyone know of good substitutes for rough riders?

Model wise?

Victoria Miniatures has conversion kits for mounted Guardsmen, and she'll also be making a motorbike model for a more modern feel.