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Hey, Dakka, whats up? Havent seent one so I figured why not have a little discussion on the various Terminator army lists.
The current lists that know off are.
1. Dark Angels- Deathwing.
2. Grey knights- Draigo wing.
3. Space Wolves - woflguard(think).

I understand that at low point ranges they arent "competitive", but this isnt about a competitive list. its more for fun,looks,better utilized. what are your thoughts Dakka?

Personally, I dont have a pref by stats but, Deathwing is probably my favorite atm. although Grey knights look pretty boss with that armor.

Not sure how i would go about building an army. seems like you need to have a mixed termie group of ranged as well as CC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I would really love if GW put rules in the codex for Death Company Termies.

I always liked the idea of a Deathwing army even in 3rd edition, and that was without the new units and choices that have been added. Lots of people don't think they are super-competitive, but I htink it's a pretty fun angle to play an army as.

Well, Death Company are dudes who have gone completely berserk and aren't really easy to keep a handle on anymore, I don't think I'd put one of them in a suit of irreplaceable relic Terminator armor. I also prefer the term "Logan's Heroes" to Loganwing or Wolfwing or whatever, since those lack creativity. Draigowing (just call it Paladins) is kind of redundant, since Grey Knight Terminators are already troops choices. The problems that Terminator lists tend to have are just lack of models and they're kind of limited by their firepower. That Terminator is gonna put out 2 stormbolter shots this turn, but for the same points you could get 3 Marines who put out between 3 and 6 bolter shots a turn. Yeah, you can't compare units in a vacuum like that, but it makes it clear that Terminators aren't going to be pouring out quite as much fire in an average game. You have to be very picky with your targets and really devote your whole army to something every turn. Your army's too small to just halfheartedly devote a squad's shooting at a far away target for lack of better things to shoot.

Terminators are beginning to become a true waste of points. Ya it is fun rolling 2+ saves whenever some one does not have the fire power to ap you out, but when they have an ap 2 large blast, most terminators just die. especially if you lose two terminators from failed armor saves you just lost 80 points or about 16 gaurdsmen or 16 ork boys.

Vedreous wrote:
Terminators are beginning to become a true waste of points. Ya it is fun rolling 2+ saves whenever some one does not have the fire power to ap you out, but when they have an ap 2 large blast, most terminators just die. especially if you lose two terminators from failed armor saves you just lost 80 points or about 16 gaurdsmen or 16 ork boys.

Competitiveness is not the discussion ;(, its which do you find to be the best,fun,coolest.

I'm in the process of starting a draigowing as a second army. I like the idea of a low model count side army. Yeah ap2 instant death is their bane but it's not like im building it for tournaments anyway.

 Brother SRM wrote:
Well, Death Company are dudes who have gone completely berserk and aren't really easy to keep a handle on anymore, I don't think I'd put one of them in a suit of irreplaceable relic Terminator armor. I also prefer the term "Logan's Heroes" to Loganwing or Wolfwing or whatever, since those lack creativity. Draigowing (just call it Paladins) is kind of redundant, since Grey Knight Terminators are already troops choices. The problems that Terminator lists tend to have are just lack of models and they're kind of limited by their firepower. That Terminator is gonna put out 2 stormbolter shots this turn, but for the same points you could get 3 Marines who put out between 3 and 6 bolter shots a turn. Yeah, you can't compare units in a vacuum like that, but it makes it clear that Terminators aren't going to be pouring out quite as much fire in an average game. You have to be very picky with your targets and really devote your whole army to something every turn. Your army's too small to just halfheartedly devote a squad's shooting at a far away target for lack of better things to shoot.

Armor is usually reused is it not? also would you try and take the armor off a Blood angle who had just falled to the black rage? In anycase Its a fun idea and would be crazy

5 Man on Board: CML, TH/SSx1
5 Man Deepstrike: Assault Cannon, TH/SS x2
5 Man in Landraider: Heavy Flamer, TH/SSx1, LCx1
10 Man on Board: CMLx2, TH/SSx2
10 Man Deepstrike: Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer, TH/SS x3
Command Squad: Champion, Banner of Fortitude, TH/SS x2
CML
Dreadnought on Board: 2x Autocannons
Dreadnought in Droppod: Multimelta or Heavy Flamer, Flamer

No Advice for Landraiders other than a ranking. Crusader then regular then redeemer.

I want to do an army with Papa Wolf (Logan Grimnar) but his termies have soooooo many options I dont know how the army should look. And Should I use Drop Pods since they dont deep strike,

Ooooh, one of these threads. I am starting a Pride of the Legion Horus Heresy army myself and I have some initial thoughts about it. Terminators armed with combi weapons, in Land Raiders, will make for a very deadly infantry killer. My biggest concern about the army, and indeed any army, is that a army with mass AP 2 could really wreck it if they choose their targets wisely. Throwing them in Raiders/Spartan Assault Tanks mitigate this issue but enough dedicated AT will mean they will be stuck mid field with their thumbs up their armored asses. And if they have enough AT to deal with those tanks they can deal with your Termies. Ah, well, at least they'll die looking awesome.

Airpower and/or support units can help deal with this issue but again they face the problem of durability.

I think that TDA-armies make fluffy SM armies. You know, elitist-styled strike force. Few specialists against the numerous enemy. The competitiveness level is low and my BA can win Deathwing/GK armies in four times out of five since my army is full of Rending and Plasma.

Grav-gun bikes also laugh at the slow terminators who die to them like nothing else.

But anyway, the different armies:

For GK this is easiest since you don't need any expensive HQ to make them troops (regular Termies. Paladins are not that cool IMO).

SW version is kind of lame and doesn't add anything special.

The Deathwing might be the most competitive because of their deep strike abilities.

Vedreous wrote:
Terminators are beginning to become a true waste of points. Ya it is fun rolling 2+ saves whenever some one does not have the fire power to ap you out, but when they have an ap 2 large blast, most terminators just die. especially if you lose two terminators from failed armor saves you just lost 80 points or about 16 gaurdsmen or 16 ork boys.

"This thing sucks against the thing specifically made to kill it, it must be terrible!" That's like saying flamers are overpowered because they'll make short work of those 16 guardsmen, ignoring the fact that Terminators wouldn't give a golly gosh darn about them. Considering that power weapons were shaken up into AP2, 3, and 4, 2+ armor is as viable as ever.

 soomemafia wrote:
I think that TDA-armies make fluffy SM armies. You know, elitist-styled strike force. Few specialists against the numerous enemy. The competitiveness level is low and my BA can win Deathwing/GK armies in four times out of five since my army is full of Rending and Plasma.

Grav-gun bikes also laugh at the slow terminators who die to them like nothing else.

But anyway, the different armies:

For GK this is easiest since you don't need any expensive HQ to make them troops (regular Termies. Paladins are not that cool IMO).

SW version is kind of lame and doesn't add anything special.

The Deathwing might be the most competitive because of their deep strike abilities.

Space wolves termies lame? , 4 combi bolters, one or two storm shields, lots of power weapons attacks (your choice axe, sword or maul) and one wolf priest with runic armour that give them fearless and PE to anything they chosee, everything with counter attack and one with mark of the wulfen, everything in the inside of one drop pod with better chances to make a precise landing on turn one (troll face engage) if you call that lame, then maybe you want the termies to have primarch like stats, to be considere good

There's a rough xenos equivalent, the ork deffwing. Two Mega-armored bosses, two squads of scoring meganobs, and three more in your elite slots, all conveniently sprinkled with Battlewagons.

I've yet to see one on the tables, though. Not all that surprising, at 23€ per meganob, this has to be the most expensive (money-wise) of all TEQ armies.

I love playing Deathwing.
Between fully customizable squads, knights, Belial's no-scatter deep strike, banners, and tough as hell land raiders, you can really make a terminator force that suits your play style.

That being said, its ton of fun, but not competitive. I have a blast playing with my Deathwing provided my opponent is aware of my competitive capabilities, and that the game is at least 1500 points.

Terminators armies just don't work at low point values.

I have a deep strike list vs. gunlines that's double force org and terminator heavy. mutilators, terms, oblits, two term hq's. ton of fun.

Look to forgeworld if you want some good flyers aswell. Storm eagle and fire raptor both have the good antiinfantry capability to fill the gaps

When your 5 man squad has to make 40 saves against a charging 30 strong boyz mob, 2+ doesnt mean s**t.

I'm still running a TDA heavy GK Ghostwing with Mordrak, Ghost Knights, a Librarian, and 1-2 full GKT squads. Still enjoyable to play, is a fun challenge in today's ever changing meta.

SJ

Out of those armies I play deathwing and draigowing. The draigowing is actually a very good army even now and I have a reasonable shot at victory against pretty much any list not tailored to kill it. With the addition of red hunter allies you can even give the paladin unit skyfire or tank hunter for one turn with an attached EW, SS, biker (to slingshot the unit if needed), TH, chapter master. They also have a nice answer to psychic deathstars in the stormraven though not perfect as the small blasts usually only hit 1 model per shot.

The deathwing are fun but there are too many little rules everywhere that kill it. It also infuriates me that I have to take belial to have DW as troops. Ironically the DW knights are one of if not the best draigowing killers in the game. Another positive for DW is you can use FW hyperios defence platforms to fill in your units on the board and allow you to reserve more DW. With a inquisitor w/ servo skulls you can afford to DS on turn 2 and probably scatter only 1d6. This stretches out your lasting power significantly as termies just don't have the bodies to fight a war of attrition with any other force. Another trick is you can load Belial's unit up with a ten man squad with 2 HF. With the no scatter drop he can get the HF templates where needed and cause some serious damage. The bad thing about DW is that games tend to be blow outs with either crazy rolling and a brutal alpha strike or a turn 4 tabling.

Both can be very fun when played in casual environments but I have preferred the GK as they have more options these days and can be taken as allies to other force. This gives me a huge number of army lists I can try. The GKs also start on the board so the enemy doesn't have to sit there and wait for them. The GK also can be run in a competitive environment and still do fine, I have never run them and not thought I could win the game. Every single time the decisions made and dice rolled mattered and if things had went my way I could win. It may not be even but as long as there is a chance it is fine. The DW has matchups where even loaded dice and perfect play will not save you.

Looks wise it is a wash to me. The Dark Vengeance box termies look great but are mono pose and are a pain to repose (they are cheap though, woot!). The GK paladins look great, are easy to magnetize and repose, and are low in number so they are still cheap despite costing more per model. I do love the DW knights though and they are probably my favorite terminator models and if you have the money to burn they make great regular termies as well if you want a project.

Utilization wise my GKs are used more just for the simple expedience that they are easy to transport and pack. They also can ally better and have more interesting options that work well in their codex so I can mix and match my lists more often.

 anyeri wrote:

Space wolves termies lame? , 4 combi bolters, one or two storm shields, lots of power weapons attacks (your choice axe, sword or maul) and one wolf priest with runic armour that give them fearless and PE to anything they chosee, everything with counter attack and one with mark of the wulfen, everything in the inside of one drop pod with better chances to make a precise landing on turn one (troll face engage) if you call that lame, then maybe you want the termies to have primarch like stats, to be considere good

I call that a bit ridiculous comparison. I call them lame, not because I'm comparing them to primarchs, but because I'm comparing them to other Terminator options.

GK get basically Force Weapons everywhere and Deathwing Knights are superior to TH/SS termies (and their regular Terminators are more effective on deep strike).