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I've been looking at Privateer Press' flagship series and I'm in the mood on starting an Iron Kingdoms army, I'm not sure what to start on really, as this will be my first army, but I always have enjoyed an army that can shrug off whatever comes at it and can punish opponents from both a distance and up close, something that's awe inspiring...
some help would be nice so I can consider on who's flag I want to march under...
But the best thing is that armies are pretty cheap (compared to a lot of other tabletop games) so if you start one and want to switch later it is not the end of the world.
But the best thing is that armies are pretty cheap (compared to a lot of other tabletop games) so if you start one and want to switch later it is not the end of the world.
From what I can see I might find what I'm looking for in Skorne or Khador, though the Protectorate is also an option, Trollbloods are cool but I'm not a fan of their armor aesthetic...
might end up coming down to if I want to bring in machines or giants... Both are good and I can see both of them trying to level a town/castle...
IronDerp wrote: I've been looking at Privateer Press' flagship series and I'm in the mood on starting an Iron Kingdoms army, I'm not sure what to start on really, as this will be my first army, but I always have enjoyed an army that can shrug off whatever comes at it and can punish opponents from both a distance and up close, something that's awe inspiring...
some help would be nice so I can consider on who's flag I want to march under...
thanks in advance!
First up, welcome to the iron Kingdoms. Don’t forget to grab your complimentary goggles and shredder plushie!
Now, looking at what you want: but I always have enjoyed an army that can shrug off whatever comes at it and can punish opponents from both a distance and up close, something that's awe inspiring...Here’s the thing. You’re not giving us much to go on! This is not a game where factions are pigeonholed, and this description=this faction.
First up, an army that can shrug off whatever comes at it. In general, that won’t happen in warmachine. This game is all about the offensive. Unlike 40k, there is no 2++ re-rollable “deathstar” unit that simply shrugs off anything. Aye, Trolls, Khador and Menoth are de-facto “brick” builds. Khador does high armour, and very high defense, trolls do tough and high armour, and menoth do denial shenanigans. But let’s be fair, P+S+3d6 goes through a lot of armour, MAT7+boosted attacks neuters defense, and tough doesn’t work all the time. Then you’ve got cryx which goes down relatively easy, but has options to simply bring back whatever you killed this turn next turn.
There are “hard” armies, but it’s a different kind of “hard” to what you’d be used to in 40k. the pendulum in this game has swung in completely the opposite direction to 40k, so that, if there is something on the board, do the right combo and you will wreck it. the fact that “you can kill it” is what balances a huge amount of stuff in this game.
Next up: and can punish opponents from both a distance and up close.This isn’t helpful, and I’m not trying to say that to be cheeky, or mean. What you want is a faction that can do melee, and ranged. And technically, that’s all of them. Cygnar and Retribution arguably are the “ranged” factions, in the sense that they use guns first, before closing for melee (and bear in mind, gunlines don’t work in warmachine. Tau have no place here!), but that doesn’t mean that other factions can’t bring a ranged game to the table. Circle, trolls, and cryx might be seen as the least/shortest ranged armies, but again, they have builds and options that can mitigate this.
The tl;dr version is pretty much every faction can punish opponents from a distance and up close.
It’ll boil down to whichever faction that gives you that hook – a model, fluff etc. bear in mind also, the focus/fury debate comes into it, in that WM armies tend to be combined arms (some jacks, infantry backbone) whilst Hordes armies tend to be more beast heavy, with supporting infantry.
Deadnight wrote: First up, welcome to the iron Kingdoms. Don’t forget to grab your complimentary goggles and shredder plushie!
OK, while I think the goggles and plushie joke is a bit over done...I must ask, why a shredder?
Who wouldn't want a stuffed shredder? They're adorable! (although I'm pretty sure the guy who got the Feora body pillow wins this particular contest)
EDIT: I think I will actually add some useful advise to this thread.
If I was going to recommend something based on your description, I think Cygnar with a Stormwall would be pretty good. The Stormwall is pretty much the best colossal in the game, and it certainly can look impressive on the tabletop. Also with easy access to arcane shield it can be pretty durable. Plus if you run it with a guy named Darius his feat can re-fill all its health boxes. Didn't quite kill that stormwall in one turn? Too bad...you'll need to start over from scratch next turn! Heck, take two stormwalls with Darius. Who's counting? It can also do either ranged or melee (although it usually does ranged, Darius and jackhammer can make it do nasty dirty things to people in melee).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/10 17:18:28
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BrianDavion wrote: Between the two of us... I think GW is assuming we the players are not complete idiots.
Rapidly on path to becoming the world's youngest bitter old man.
You can take an entire close combat army with Khador and do reasonably well. Butcher is absolutely mental in close combat, and I've had him slice up 3 jacks in one turn and end the game then and there.
If you use one of his specific spells (called full throttle) you can slam jacks into the front line and send your opponent crashing out the back end.
Deadnight wrote: First up, welcome to the iron Kingdoms. Don’t forget to grab your complimentary goggles and shredder plushie!
OK, while I think the goggles and plushie joke is a bit over done...I must ask, why a shredder?
Who wouldn't want a stuffed shredder? They're adorable! (although I'm pretty sure the guy who got the Feora body pillow wins this particular contest)
EDIT: I think I will actually add some useful advise to this thread.
If I was going to recommend something based on your description, I think Cygnar with a Stormwall would be pretty good. The Stormwall is pretty much the best colossal in the game, and it certainly can look impressive on the tabletop. Also with easy access to arcane shield it can be pretty durable. Plus if you run it with a guy named Darius his feat can re-fill all its health boxes. Didn't quite kill that stormwall in one turn? Too bad...you'll need to start over from scratch next turn! Heck, take two stormwalls with Darius. Who's counting? It can also do either ranged or melee (although it usually does ranged, Darius and jackhammer can make it do nasty dirty things to people in melee).
And by the way, here is a stuffed shredder.
Spoiler:
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/10 21:32:54
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aww what a cut- WHY IS THIS THING TRYING TO BITE ME!!!
*ahem* anyway Khador seems nice, apparently they lack reach for spells due to lack of Arc Nodes (which I understand allows the caster to cast spells using the 'jack as a focus point) Which means that they need to be in the thick of it at all times, which isn't a problem since they're built like their warjacks...
Cygnar seems good, though they do love to use "storm" in their units... I know they like to use lightning attacks but it seems like they have a fetish for it...
I'm not really a fan of the Trollblood style, not sure why, I mean they're big but their warbeasts don't impress me over the Skorne or Everblight (must be the armor)
Skorne is a very interesting aesthetic, basically taking most of the asian influence, and giving it a roman/persian outlook.. also they're not elves despite the pointy ears and they lack hair... Also Cyclopes
I actually don't like the Retribution's theme... they seem so off in this kind of setting... I mean they just glow... no hissing of steam or clanking of gears... and also tiny hands... why?
From what I have experienced with Skorne, their ranged game is pretty weak. They have a couple decent ranged options but theyhave a huge focus on melee and hhuge focus on beasts. Bronze back titan is probably the best heavy beast/jack in the game when considering the amount of support skorne offers.
Khador has a very well rounded selection of melee and range with a little more focus on the melee aspect. They use a lot of infantry and very few war jacks (except karchev). Their jacks are all heavy, slow, good ARM , high damage boxes and high strength and khador has some casters who can improve their movement. Khador casters mostly play the support role but many of them have a nice mix of spells and abilities that let them handle many different situations. They don't do a lot of offensive spell slinging though, mostly buffing and area control. Take a look at pIrusk for a standard khador caster.
Deadnight wrote: First up, welcome to the iron Kingdoms. Don’t forget to grab your complimentary goggles and shredder plushie!
OK, while I think the goggles and plushie joke is a bit over done...I must ask, why a shredder?
Who wouldn't want a stuffed shredder? They're adorable! (although I'm pretty sure the guy who got the Feora body pillow wins this particular contest)
You (or anyone in that case) will never have a life-like Scorcha android with a Tsun Tsun personality, berating you for not serving the Khadorian Motherland with glory.
The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
Deadnight wrote: First up, welcome to the iron Kingdoms. Don’t forget to grab your complimentary goggles and shredder plushie!
OK, while I think the goggles and plushie joke is a bit over done...I must ask, why a shredder?
Who wouldn't want a stuffed shredder? They're adorable! (although I'm pretty sure the guy who got the Feora body pillow wins this particular contest)
You (or anyone in that case) will never have a life-like Scorcha android with a Tsun Tsun personality, berating you for not serving the Khadorian Motherland with glory.
Probably not, but for enough money, I'm sure Real Doll is more than willing to make you a life size Sorcha "friend".
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I'm a Skorne player so I am biased but I think we have a very strong ranged game. For units we have Incindiarii which are medium based multi health box unit that shoots a 3inch AOE that has continuous fire. Reivers have always been hated on the internets but recently Jason Watt took them to a tournament and showed their full potential. If you want to see that skip 10 minutes into this clip
Slingers are our other option and they are pretty decent actually and are cheap at 6pts for 10 and also provide us with souls to make us stronger. For beasts we have the Cannoneer, Raider with his +4 RNG animus, and the Mammoth brings a strong a ranged game, Willbreaker solo for an extra attack or to reroll that key attack and extroller to provide eyeless sight or shoot his own strong attack that is stronger with souls.
While our melee beasts are strong (Bronzeback is the strongest beast/jack in the game, enraged under last stand will do more than 250 damage on average rolls in an activation, Gladiator slams alone with follow up have one me a dozen games), our units are really good too in fact Skorne gets a bonus on our medium based infantry getting an extra body (4 instead of 3 for min unit and 6 instead of 5 for max unit). However you will find that beast handlers are what make the faction work. The ability to buy attacks and push your beasts to full fury just to remove it all at 4 guys for 2 pts where a Legion Shepherd or Druid Wilder runs 2 pts per is amazing.
A lot of people recommend Focus for getting into the game, however I find Fury so much more amazing. Between healing that warbeast so that key aspect is healed without having to work someone with repair up to it first, being able to force a Bronze Back 5 times to a Warjacks max focus of 3, and the biggest thing bring damage transfer, go ahead and have your +1 armor warcasters when my warlock just transferred 20 damage. And with beast handlers you can manage that fury to make sure your warlock is always sitting on some fury to transfer and never can take in more than is out there on his/her beasts.
Thus, After having thus successively taken each member of the community in its powerful grasp and fashioned him at will, the supreme power then extends its arm over the whole community. It covers the surface of society with a network of small complicated rules, minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate, to rise above the crowd. The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, and guided; men are seldom forced by it to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting. Such a power does not destroy, but it prevents existence; it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd
-Alexis de Tocqueville.
Well thank you but I have to disagree with you on the lack of support. An army full of shooty warbeasts (Raiders, Shaman, Cannoneers, and Drakes) that can boost the attack and damage rolls and cast their animus just to have pain givers strip off all that fury. In the solo department we have Extrollers to provide eyeless sight and Willbreakers for rerolls or ancillary attacks. The Reiver UA is brilliant providing a mini-feat giving them a 22in threat range and granting them reform. We are only really lacking on UA and support solos on the other 3 shooting units. And really the Tyrant Commander can give them an extra 2 SPD which is just as good as +2 RNG, among other benefits. I would not be surprised if in the next year maybe 2, Arcuarii or Incindiarii gets a UA or support solo. Maybe a single support solo for both units granting them increased RAT or range, or another special ability (CRA Arcuarii being able to drag in large based models, or Incindiarii a Deliverer-style increased AOE with CRA or a Flame Wall)
Thus, After having thus successively taken each member of the community in its powerful grasp and fashioned him at will, the supreme power then extends its arm over the whole community. It covers the surface of society with a network of small complicated rules, minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate, to rise above the crowd. The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, and guided; men are seldom forced by it to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting. Such a power does not destroy, but it prevents existence; it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd
-Alexis de Tocqueville.
Skorne range is pretty interesting... seems to be there just to give hell before they make you cry for mama... but any stragglers and they'll be flayed alive.
I've noticed that both Skorne and Khador both have two similar traits... Heavy hitters and being slow as a brick... though Khador has some ways to get around it...
The Thornfall alliance also appeals to me... mainly because steampunk pigs (also their leader has the best title ever)
In the end though I think Khador sells it for me, mainly because of the warjacks and man-o-war's, and Skorne coming in a close second, with their cyclopses and tyrants... now all I need is to mill through the prime book...
The Prime book isn't nearly as intimidating as it looks (well, I got intimidated at first anyway). Out of all the pages, only about 40 are the actual rules you need to play the game. Plus they're all laid out pretty amazingly. There were multiple times on my first read through when I would read an into paragraph for some rule and think to myself "wait...so does that mean I can do [insert rules interaction here]" then the next paragraph would explicitly clarify or explain the interaction I was thinking of.
Like watching other people play video games (badly) while blathering about nothing in particular? Check out my Youtube channel: joemamaUSA!
BrianDavion wrote: Between the two of us... I think GW is assuming we the players are not complete idiots.
Rapidly on path to becoming the world's youngest bitter old man.
IronDerp wrote: In the end though I think Khador sells it for me, mainly because of the warjacks and man-o-war's, and Skorne coming in a close second, with their cyclopses and tyrants... now all I need is to mill through the prime book...
A lot of people get interested in Khador because of the jacks and Man o' wars. But before you buy realize that they are a primarily infantry faction. So the great majority of casters will only want one, maybe two jacks ( really just one). and as far as infantry goes, man o wars are probably the worst. They tend to be really slow and not super effective.
I'm not saying not to do it. But a lot of new players have a lot of issues with those things and it tends to make the game harder.
now if you like hordes of wintergaurd and/or the pikemen then you are set. They are a staple in nearly every competitive khador list I have seen.
Full disclosure, I've only played khador a couple of times when my brother and I switched armies. But I have played against them a lot. When I see a bunch of jacks and MOW it usually makes me happy.
Hargus56 wrote: Well thank you but I have to disagree with you on the lack of support. An army full of shooty warbeasts (Raiders, Shaman, Cannoneers, and Drakes) that can boost the attack and damage rolls and cast their animus just to have pain givers strip off all that fury. In the solo department we have Extrollers to provide eyeless sight and Willbreakers for rerolls or ancillary attacks. The Reiver UA is brilliant providing a mini-feat giving them a 22in threat range and granting them reform. We are only really lacking on UA and support solos on the other 3 shooting units. And really the Tyrant Commander can give them an extra 2 SPD which is just as good as +2 RNG, among other benefits. I would not be surprised if in the next year maybe 2, Arcuarii or Incindiarii gets a UA or support solo. Maybe a single support solo for both units granting them increased RAT or range, or another special ability (CRA Arcuarii being able to drag in large based models, or Incindiarii a Deliverer-style increased AOE with CRA or a Flame Wall)
Other than the extollers, willbreakers and raider's single target animus, nothing of that is really a support option for ranged, just internal workings of warbeasts or a UA. Skorne doesn't have a caster that particularly loves ranged units and that's fine because their ranged is fantastic, but mostly selfish. Incindiarii, Arcuarii, slingers and reivers rely on themselves. The raider is the closest thing to dedicated range support as the extollers and willbreakers help both melee and ranged. Tyrants help all troops. There's a lot of incidental support, but hardly anything that is designed with full intent on making skorne a stronger ranged army and that's why I say they don't really have ranged support.
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Be sure to use logic! Avoid fallacies whenever possible.
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IronDerp wrote: In the end though I think Khador sells it for me, mainly because of the warjacks and man-o-war's, and Skorne coming in a close second, with their cyclopses and tyrants... now all I need is to mill through the prime book...
A lot of people get interested in Khador because of the jacks and Man o' wars. But before you buy realize that they are a primarily infantry faction. So the great majority of casters will only want one, maybe two jacks ( really just one). and as far as infantry goes, man o wars are probably the worst. They tend to be really slow and not super effective.
I'm not saying not to do it. But a lot of new players have a lot of issues with those things and it tends to make the game harder.
now if you like hordes of wintergaurd and/or the pikemen then you are set. They are a staple in nearly every competitive khador list I have seen.
Full disclosure, I've only played khador a couple of times when my brother and I switched armies. But I have played against them a lot. When I see a bunch of jacks and MOW it usually makes me happy.
Skorne on the other hand loves its Tyrants and Cyclops. The only thing we have that really looks awesome but isn't very effective is the Siege Animantarax.
I've noticed that both Skorne and Khador both have two similar traits... Heavy hitters and being slow as a brick... though Khador has some ways to get around it...
In the end though I think Khador sells it for me, mainly because of the warjacks and man-o-war's, and Skorne coming in a close second, with their cyclopses and tyrants... now all I need is to mill through the prime book...
I want to correct you on something…
Khador being heavy hitters, and slow as a brick.
Simply not true. Khador heavy warjacks are Spd4, which is on a par with the vast majority of other high-ARM heavies (typically spd4-spd5) in other factions. You will see a lot of Spd4 menoth and cygnar jacks too. With regard to infantry, Khador is again on a part with the vast majority of other infantry – Spd6 is the “norm”, not just in khador, but across a lot of factions. Khador has some blisteringly fast options on top of this with both their heavy, and light cavalry options being quite nimble, as well as fast units like kayazy eliminators and mercenary options like the nyss hunters. Back this up with various spells (escort, boundless charge, dash etc) and feats (Vlad 1, Vlad 2, Vlad 3, Strakhov) and you can slingshot a whole army across the board. For a “slow” faction, they’re arguably the fastest slow faction in the game.
Bear in mind also, that while the Men O War (not man o wars) and Warjacks are quite iconic, they’re not the backbone of the faction. You’ll typically only see 1-2 jacks per caster, unless they have spells/abilities (eg Butcher’s full throttle) that let them run multiple jacks effectively. Similarly, Men o War, whilst solid, are not the game defining pieces people want them to be- they’re a “Kovnik Joe of the Men o War” short of being truly great. They’re good, in the right list, and I’ve seen them do astonishingly well, but they need support. They’re a roadblock/tarpit unit that needs to be up the board fast to jam, but they lack the speed to get there, which often limits them to second wave, and that’s losing them a lot of potential. And like warjacks, that support is more limited. Epic irusk works a great game with them, for example, but other casters don’t do as well. Khador’s main backbone is its Iron Fangs, Winter Guard etc. lately, there is a trend to go for high ARM, fast-ish multiwound models such as Khador’s cavalry options as well as iron fangs (along with the traditional winter guard) – the greylord outriders are rather spectacular, if you ask me,
Yeah, Khador is not slow. I saw that first hand in my last game against them when the IF Pikemen advanced 14" straight up the board while still in shield wall.
I was playing Cryx and the Khador were moving much faster than I was. Fortunately I was able to outmaneuver them when it counted, but most of the game was played on my half of the board.
Very unusual when I am running things like satyxis raiders.
I am not sure of the full list, but it was 35 points and something like this;
Butcher3
IFP BD IFP Great Bears
IF solo guy from the new book
The MOW on the horse
Juggernaut
It was fast and put two difficult to shift units (the two IFP) right in your face in turn one. The rest of the units support and/or take advantage of holes in my army to break thru or reinforce, etc.
It worked really well, but he made a couple mistakes that were key to me winning
Yeah, people who think that Khador are slow are often in for a horrid shock. Take Vlad for example, on turn one he can send his ARM 25 monsters sixteen inches across the field. Many of the Khador casters have their own ways to make their jacks fast, either by boundless charge or by making them run for free.
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Yeah, they're deceptively fast. Low Spd stats, but dang can they make it not matter at all.
The real slow army is Menoth.
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Grey Templar wrote: Yeah, they're deceptively fast. Low Spd stats, but dang can they make it not matter at all.
The real slow army is Menoth.
Slow, but (with the right support and that) good luck trying to break and unjam it once it gets up there. Also beware and fear our many fire-inducing AoE's.
The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
Grey Templar wrote: Yeah, they're deceptively fast. Low Spd stats, but dang can they make it not matter at all.
The real slow army is Menoth.
Slow, but (with the right support and that) good luck trying to break and unjam it once it gets up there. Also beware and fear our many fire-inducing AoE's.
might take the two player starter box then... that way I can convince someone to play with me
IronDerp wrote: might take the two player starter box then... that way I can convince someone to play with me
Never a bad idea. Especially if you are interested in one or both of the armies.
In an ideal world you and a friend each choose one of those two factions and split the cost when you start. But I have 5 armies and everyone I know who plays with any regularity has at least 2.
They are a staple in nearly every competitive khador list I have seen.
