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First off, I am 15 years old and would like to say that I am completely new to miniatures and WarHammer 40k. Recently I purchased the Tau Empire essentials which cam with 23 miniatures. I assembled all of them using Citadel Plastic Glue Thick, which came with it. About a couple days later, all my miniatures started falling apart. I took a closer look, and realized I can't put a few of them back together because the glue bonded the plastics and messed up the joints. So now I want to put them back together, but I am not sure how to remove the citadel glue. From what I have heard it is nearly impossible to remove unless you take an exacto knife to them, which I 'attepmted'. For now I am not sure what to do. So here are my questions. What would you do? What glue should I use? and Is it possible to clean these up?

I personally usually just use super glue for everything. To remove the glue, you'll probably have to take a knife and clippers to it. There may be some way of chemically removing it but I don't know if there's one that won't also damage the plastic.

You could also use a file to wear down on the glue if you are not comfortable with a knife on the small joints - you will eventually grind it smooth again.

Okay, firstly, let me sympathize. Plastic glue ruins everything. I only wish I could have warned you before you learned it the hard way.

Secondly, plastic glue isn't glue. It's a gelatinized solvent. What it does is to melt the plastic into a goop, and then the solvent (acetone in this case) evaporates out and the goop solidifies, leaving you with a single, fused piece of plastic.

This means that you can't for example, pry the two bitz back apart, because there aren't two pieces of plastic anymore. The only way you can fix this is by manually separating that single piece into two pieces again as if you were taking any other single piece of plastic and sundering it twain.

Also, despite this fusing thing, it has a strange tendency to form really, really weak bonds some times. Go figure. Inconsistency being only one of many reasons not to bother with plastic glue.

So, the first thing you should do is to get rid of that plastic glue, and buy yourself some superglue. If you have a Walgreen's near you, they sell a house brand 6x pack of superglue for like $3. I'd highly recommend. Anyways, once you have this, you'll be able to avoid future disasters like this, as superglue forms a more consistent bond, but it also is easier to break apart with some acute torque later on (and it works with greenstuff and plasticard, etc. etc. I could extol ad nauseum here).

Once you've got that, then it's just a matter of fixing what you have now. Thankfully, all is not lost, as you're working in plastic here, which is a rather forgiving medium. If you have an x-acto knife and patience, you can always carefully work apart the various parts of you model - just be careful not to get frustrated and try to "snap" off the bitz when you're halfway through, or you'll find big hunks crumbling off your model (polyethylene has terrible shear strength). Once you have returned the mini (or the affected parts at least) to their off-sprue state, then you can just clean them up a bit with the hobby knife and then just glue them back on. You might need to shave off some extra on where you're gluing it down, and if there's a gap, you might need greenstuff, but that's no problem.

Now, you say you've "attempted" this. What do you mean? Do you mean it was working, but slowly and you're getting impatient, or does it mean that you're doing it wrong and don't want to mess up too many of your minis building up that skill set?

I would like thank you guys so much for replies you guys are a really nice community! When I say attempted, I meant I tried gently scrapping off some of the glue after they separated.

And what happened when you did that?

I happen to like plastic glue, but not Games Workshop plastic glue because it's a bit thick and liable to make a mess.

I'm not really sure what you mean about removing the glue? Usually after it dries the glue is gone, what you are left with is melted plastic. If you put more glue on it then it will go soft again, and then you can fit the parts together while they are soft. If you have managed to spill the glue in all the wrong places and the miniatures look weird and melted, then I'm afraid there isn't a lot you can, apart from try to painstakingly re-sculpt the lost detail.

EDIT: Though "creative" painting can also help to hide some modeling sins.

@Ailaros Everything is fine, I'm slowly getting most of it off I'm just worried I might mess up that's all xD @Smacks It's weird though, the glue dried, but the pieces aren't fully fused together, like they haven't melted all the way.

Yeah, the chemical reaction can create gasses due to the impurities in the polyethylene of the plastic, which ruins the bond.

Put another way, it sometimes winds up like swiss cheese, and just as weak and crumbly.

I've had this with some models I recently picked up from eBay that had messy joints and needed reassembling. Dried residual glue/plastic mess you can remove using a modelling file (or a nail file I guess!). This will shave it away in small amounts and leave a flat surface. Just take care you don't go too far and remove too much and ruin the joint, and you don't file any part of the model that will be visible by accident.

 Smacks wrote:
I happen to like plastic glue, but not Games Workshop plastic glue because it's a bit thick and liable to make a mess.

I'm not really sure what you mean about removing the glue? Usually after it dries the glue is gone, what you are left with is melted plastic. If you put more glue on it then it will go soft again, and then you can fit the parts together while they are soft. If you have managed to spill the glue in all the wrong places and the miniatures look weird and melted, then I'm afraid there isn't a lot you can, apart from try to painstakingly re-sculpt the lost detail.

EDIT: Though "creative" painting can also help to hide some modeling sins.

I believe OP was using GW's plastic glue? Which, if what Dakka says about it is anything to go on, is utter tripe (Just like their super glue really - but you didn't hear that from me... ) and tends to not work, more so than other plastic cement. I use Humbrol Polycement, and it's never let me down.

Did the glue leave a crystallised substance by any chance?

I'd get a small file, and just smooth out the spots you want to re-glue them, then I'd go pick up a bottle of Loctite Gel Control super glue. I do all sorts of models/minis and this stuff never fails me. It comes in an easy to use bottle that gives you good control and as it is a gel, you can get a nice drop exactly where you want.

Cheers!

I personally don't like superglue because it tacks too fast. If you try to break that tack and reposition the piece then you have to add more superglue. I have used Elmyers Hobby Glue since I was a kid, and if used properly, will never leave you wanting.

The trick is to be patient, I know that must sound lame to a 15 year old, but believe me a little patience goes... ah hell, youtube Patience by Guns N Roses! You'll see. (Wow, feeling old all of a sudden!)

What I do is I have this super handy little stylus, basically a superfine brush except made of metal. You can use it to make those cool little script marks on purity seals and such, if you're really awesome that is. I use my stylus for the application of glue!

With plastic glue it's best if you use only a tiny amount and apply it evenly to both pieces. Gently, but firmly press the bits together and it takes about 10 seconds to start tacking, giving you plenty of time to get the positioning just right. Once it tacks you can just leave it to sit and cure up. That's the other thing with plastic glue, it is environmentally sensitive as it dries so try not to leave your models in a damp cold basement, or in a sun baked window sill.

Oh and let them cure for a good 8-12 hours before you attempt more work on them. Same thing goes for paint. Let that stuff cure bro!

As for the repair process? Well, haha, go ahead and listen to The Chase Is Better Than The Catch, by Motorhead!

Enjoy your time at the work bench! It's part of the hobby too...

Also I learned this the hard way starting out with Testors brand plastic cement back in the day: When you're first starting out and think you've put enough glue on, you've most likely put on way the heck too much! The applicator that comes with the tube is very much too big (at least mine was).

I have many Tau Fire Warriors on my "shelf of shame" with their heads leaned way over to the side at impossible angles because too much glue on the neck meant that the bond took way longer to cure than I was expecting and they got pulled over by their own weight after I thought they were set up (and don't even get me started on the finger prints...)

I guess this doesn't apply to plastic glue since you've already found your problem, but washing your plastic sprues down in some warm soapy water, then giving them a gentle once over with a toothbrush before rinsing them can do wonders for glue and paint stickiness. Basically they have this stuff called "mold release agent" that is pretty much non stick cooking spray used to get models out of molds, and sometimes it doesn't all come off. It shouldn't matter too much for plastic I don't think, but it's a good habit to get into anyway (doesn't take too long at it can't hurt).

 dementedwombat wrote:
When you're first starting out and think you've put enough glue on, you've most likely put on way the heck too much! The applicator that comes with the tube is very much too big (at least mine was).

Also, this means you're using the thick glue from a tube, which is garbage. What you want is the thin watery glue in a bottle with a long thin tip.

It shouldn't matter too much for plastic I don't think, but it's a good habit to get into anyway (doesn't take too long at it can't hurt).

It matters for plastic because mold release also causes problems with paint sticking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:
Plastic glue ruins everything.

If by "ruins" you mean "is awesome with", then yeah. Plastic glue gives you a solid bond, dries slowly enough that you don't accidentally glue something in the wrong position while lining the parts up, and doesn't come with any risk of gluing your fingers to your model. It's only a bad thing if you're the kind of indecisive person who wants to be able to tear everything apart in a week and start over, or if you don't care enough to do it right and avoid making giant glue puddles everywhere.

darkcloak wrote:Oh and let them cure for a good 8-12 hours before you attempt more work on them. Same thing goes for paint. Let that stuff cure bro!

Eight to twelve HOURS?!?

Holy crap! I'd gladly exchange a few seconds of workability for not having to wait all day until I can touch the model again. Especially compared to the no amount of waiting that superglue requires once it sets.

Plus, you can always dry-fit stuff in many various ways. Once you've decided how you want something to go on, why do you need a bunch of workability time?

Okay so I have almost taken all of them apart with no problem. I think what happened is I got really excited and rushed my way through the progress :p thus I am here! I am going to slowly and carefully file down some of the parts and make sure they fit properly. Then I'm gonna pick me up a bottle of some glue. From what I am hearing.....most of you guys use super glue? Is that right?

<whispers> Loctite Gel Control Glue

Yeah, I tried the GW plastic glue one time, and Yeah, Not impressed at all. I understand that other brands of Plastic glue are much better.

Yes, What I use is Zap a Gap, which is a superglue. One of the reasons I like Superglue, is because it works equally well for Resin, and metal.

Zap-A-Gap works on everything, and it works well... it is almost the only adhesive I use on my models. Superglue is the only exception as it seems to bond metal (I have a lot of old models) and plastic quicker than zap-a-gap, but I have been working with that product for so long, I often just prefer it in general.

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Zap-A-Gap works on everything, and it works well... it is almost the only adhesive I use on my models. Superglue is the only exception as it seems to bond metal (I have a lot of old models) and plastic quicker than zap-a-gap, but I have been working with that product for so long, I often just prefer it in general.

zap a gap IS superglue.

They just charge you more for it.

ok, then a thick superglue is what i recommend.

LilVoodooBoy wrote:
Okay so I have almost taken all of them apart with no problem. I think what happened is I got really excited and rushed my way through the progress :p thus I am here! I am going to slowly and carefully file down some of the parts and make sure they fit properly. Then I'm gonna pick me up a bottle of some glue. From what I am hearing.....most of you guys use super glue? Is that right?

There have been a couple threads on this topic that week or so over in the P&M forum. Here is one where we talked about GW plastic glue and how it doesn't work. Near the end of that thread there is a picture of what the glue looks like after it fails; the glue crystallizes and I would imagine you miniatures looked very similar. I used that glue when I first started out before I switched to this:


It's easy to find (I'm pretty sure the big name arts & crafts stores carry it) and it works like a charm. I know everyone has their preferences, but I am believer in using plastic cement for plastic and super glue and pins for metal/resin. Personally, I have never found the need to tear apart my models after I've built them and if I want something interchangeable (which is almost never), I'll magnetize it.

Superglue everytime. That whispering voice in your ear? its right, listen to it, loctite gel. It may be slightly more difficult to use than plastic glue but with superglue, no mistake is permanent. Also I actually like that superglue bounds in a couple seconds. Many times I give the surface a slight dampening to make it go even faster.

Superglue is perfect, yes few accidents but once its solid and on its done. My superglued marines took more planning but it worked very well, long as your careful on the amount.

+ it fixs infinite other problems, decent superglue can be a holy grail

Alrighty they are all officially taken apart no problems whatsoever. However i do have one last question. I have been looking around and some people actually paint their miniatures before putting them together.... I assumed that it would be better to put them together first. What are your thoughts?

Painting before assembling, if done correctly, can be good if you use an airbrush. That way you don't have to do an insane amount of masking. It's also good if you want to spend the least amount of time or effort painting your minis. Even in this case, though, you don't paint them on the sprue, or you'll have problems with mould lines and the little extra bitz of warped and unpainted plastic where the bitz connected to the sprue.

Otherwise it's generally better to assemble and then paint. Whatever nooks or crannies will still be accessible by brush (or you won't even be able to see them), and assembling before painting is a straight necessity if you're going to do any conversion work (or structural things like pinning or magnetizing). Plus, you reduce the chance that stray superglue will ruin your paint job down to zero.

I only use super glue as it works on materials other than plastic and is easier to get, and I don't notice the bond being much worse.

Its more a matter of personal preference.

I like to assemble them first, then use a colored primer to basecoat. Especially on smaller things like Firewarriors. When you start getting to larger models like a riptide, I like to partially assemble, then prime and paint before doing final assembly.

A Colored Primer and a good wash can go along way to making your minis table top quality.

Any books on painting miniatures i should look at?