Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have a feeling they are neurally activated, through the black carapace or whatever it is. On a side note, a lightsaber only gets hot when it touches something, so maybe its the same?

FYI for a real thrill i fap with a siege drill. Crucial thing is: dont slip.

 rednecroncryptek wrote:
I have a feeling they are neurally activated, through the black carapace or whatever it is. On a side note, a lightsaber only gets hot when it touches something, so maybe its the same?

FYI for a real thrill i fap with a siege drill. Crucial thing is: dont slip.

well, that was appropriate.
I always figured thunderhammers were activated by a rune on the pummel, you've seen the pics of them with lightning around them.

Isnt there a picture of marneus Calgar drinking wine in a crystal glass with the Gauntlets on?

Well it was in one of the Ultramarine books.

Also, in a sequel he grabs a dagger that's tossed in his direction and uses it to stab a Daemon.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Well it was in one of the Ultramarine books.

Also, in a sequel he grabs a dagger that's tossed in his direction and uses it to stab a Daemon.

SPOILER!
aside from that why the feth do you use a dagger when you have a flying power sword to use?

Come now, that would be a spoiler

 Ailaros wrote:
Thunderfists only got cuncussive when they hit something, I thought. As in, a powerfist, except when it makes contact it then releases another burst of energy.

I guess one way of framing the question is what would happen, ruleswise in game, if you had a deactivated powerfist. Would it become a "Sx2 Ap-" weapon, or would it become a close combat weapon?

IMO Sx2 Unwieldy CCW.

pelicaniforce wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
Thunderfists only got cuncussive when they hit something, I thought. As in, a powerfist, except when it makes contact it then releases another burst of energy.

I guess one way of framing the question is what would happen, ruleswise in game, if you had a deactivated powerfist. Would it become a "Sx2 Ap-" weapon, or would it

How about this way of framing: what happens, ruleswise, if you had a deactivated ork power klaw, or an eviscerator with a deactivated powerfield?

They are both Sx2 ap2, because they don't have power fields in the first place. A power fist with a deactivated power field is Sx2 ap2.

become a close combat weapon?

It would probably still have the unwieldy and specialist weapon rules, no matter what else happens, so it is still a funny sort of close combat weapon.

Both power klaws and eviscerators have power fields.

As for which profile an inactive power fist would have, my guess would be Sx1.5 (Rounding down) AP- Melee, unwieldy, specialist weapon.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

Both power klaws and eviscerators have power fields.

But I guess Orks seldom bother with a switch to shut down the Klaw... it's more hilarious that way, innit?

pelicaniforce wrote:
I understand that thunder hammers do not have active power fields, eviscerators do not have active power fields, power klaws do not have active power fields, force staves do not have active power fields, and that any ideas of punching with a power fist are the mall-people version of the setting.

The most important example of a big gauntlet with power fields is the Talon of Horus, which is not a power fist. I don't think you need to worry about power fields because not all things that ignore armor are "power fields."

The Talon of Horus probably killed Sanguinius and almost the Emperor. It is more important than the other famous gauntlets.

Force Weapons aren't supposed to have a power-field, that would screw up the psy-channeling focus crystals and stuff.

Eviscerators have powerfields. Thunderhammers have power-fields, but not the kind that is "always on" when in use. It discharges that energy in a burst. Hence the name. Powerfists also have power fields, just like powerswords. "Wreathed in a crackling field of energy" and all that. Not sure where the idea comes that they don't.

The Talon of Horus is definitely not a Powerfist... it's a Lightning Claw, which is a souped-up version of a Powerclaw. All of these things also have power-fields, all of them basically being a giant glove with powerswords stuck to it.

I'm still not sold on it being the servo motors that do the extra damage. I mean, if you punch something, the fact that you have extra-strong fingers is pretty meaningless. The only real advantage that you have is that it's heavy.

We already have (or have had) rules for this in the form of larger, two-handed weapons. Last I remember, they only gave +1S, not x2S, and it didn't help the Ap at all. You need more than just being heavy, here.

In the case of the eviscerator, it's the spinning teeth that do the Ap. A regular chainsword has some spinning teeth and is Ap-, while a heavy chainsword has more, and is Ap5, and a full 12-foot-long chainsaw sword is Ap2. In this case, it's not a power field, but it is something special.

Likewise, look at power weapons. Chainsaws may be able to slice through armor the more you have, and things like axes and swords have a better Ap than maces. It suggests that weapons that would have a hard time piercing armor (like a bludgeoning weapon) have worse Ap. I mean, you have to give a mace a power field just to stagger it down to Ap4.

I feel like a deactivated power fist wouldn't have anything special to help it pierce armor, whether power field or sharp blade. This would mean Ap-. I guess the remaining question would be about strength, but, as mentioned, heavy things like heavy chainswords and two-handed weapons and mauls give a + to strength, not a x to it.

If you couldn't turn them off what's the point in a power glove having fingers? It would be impractical, as they'd injure themselves or damage the surroundings accidentally. It's not just Marines that wear them but humans wearing no more than cloth or bare skin, no use in wearing a glove that will rip your leg off the moment you brush your gloved hand against it.

Also it's clear from things like Space Hulk that one hand uses the gun while the other is free to reload and clear jams, open doors and carry things.

It's probably a neural thing, or maybe activated from within the glove, perhaps only turned on when the fist is actually clenched, or perhaps both together as a safety guard.

 Ailaros wrote:
Thunderfists only got cuncussive when they hit something, I thought. As in, a powerfist, except when it makes contact it then releases another burst of energy.

I guess one way of framing the question is what would happen, ruleswise in game, if you had a deactivated powerfist. Would it become a "Sx2 Ap-" weapon, or would it become a close combat weapon?

Thunder hammers have power fields, but the difference is that the power field is stored up like a capacitor rather than left constantly running, and this capacitor discharges the stored up energy upon impact, creating a directed shockwave that strikes with immense force, goes through most armor, and creates the iconic thunderclap.

As for your second question, power fists almost certainly carry their weight and then some. Having only one is already going to play hell with your balancing, no need to make moving your hand a chore on top of it.

Power fists are specifically noted to have a powerfield that grants them their armor penetration capabilities, using the enhanced strength offered by the fist to better drive the fields into something. After all, infinite sharpness or hardness matters not one iota if you don't have the strength to actually get the darn thing to penetrate or drive through something in the first place (represented by having the AP to penetrate something or get good results on vehicle damage tables, but not the strength to wound or penetrate it reliably).

In essence, getting hit with a power fist without it's power field would still slam into you with enough force to kill most people several times over, but it would need to work much harder to actually go through any armor as fists aren't exactly in a shape conduicive to penetration.

Power Klaws also have power fields running through them but are in a shape more conduicive to grabbing, slashing, and crushing than power fists, and actually I'd say the Power Klaw is actually a superior design to the fist for pure combat. It would offer better reach and be substantially more dangerous with slashing or gripping motions.

The Chainfist effectively is a power fist, power field and all, with an attatchment that attaches a power field wreathed chainblade for better cutting capability, so instead of having to Karate chop or rip and tear your way through an armored bulkhead or Tank armor, you can just punch into it and then drag your fist down as the chainblade does most of the work.

 Ailaros wrote:
I'm still not sold on it being the servo motors that do the extra damage. I mean, if you punch something, the fact that you have extra-strong fingers is pretty meaningless. The only real advantage that you have is that it's heavy.

We already have (or have had) rules for this in the form of larger, two-handed weapons. Last I remember, they only gave +1S, not x2S, and it didn't help the Ap at all. You need more than just being heavy, here.

In the case of the eviscerator, it's the spinning teeth that do the Ap. A regular chainsword has some spinning teeth and is Ap-, while a heavy chainsword has more, and is Ap5, and a full 12-foot-long chainsaw sword is Ap2. In this case, it's not a power field, but it is something special.

Likewise, look at power weapons. Chainsaws may be able to slice through armor the more you have, and things like axes and swords have a better Ap than maces. It suggests that weapons that would have a hard time piercing armor (like a bludgeoning weapon) have worse Ap. I mean, you have to give a mace a power field just to stagger it down to Ap4.

I feel like a deactivated power fist wouldn't have anything special to help it pierce armor, whether power field or sharp blade. This would mean Ap-. I guess the remaining question would be about strength, but, as mentioned, heavy things like heavy chainswords and two-handed weapons and mauls give a + to strength, not a x to it.

No, Eviscerators specifically do have power fields. Two-handed Chainswords are rending, according to Codex: Blood Angels.

I'm not sure why it's not mentioned on Lexicanum, and of course 40kWikia is so poorly referenced that it's no use at all, but I am 100% certain that it's true.

The mace thing doesn't really work, by the way. Maces were developed specifically to kill armoured enemies, because they don't rely on cutting to inflict damage. They rely on hitting hard enough that the force of the blow is transmitted through the armour and padding to the soft tissue beneath.

I think a deactivated power fist will be +1 Strength, AP5. I agree that there's not much in the way of physical strength enhancement involved with the Fist.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Gashrog wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
or move your arm in just the right way, and it turns off and/or on.

Ever since they changed the name from Power Glove to Power Fist I've assumed it powered up when a fist was made and powered down when the hand was opened with any uber-crushyness coming purely from the fact its a massive mechanical hand.

That makes sense. The fist is meant to used for punching.
You don't see marines bitch-slapping heretics, after all

I mean, can you imagine Calgar pimp slapping an Avatar? That would be silly.

In the fluff there are a bunch of references to the fists Tearing and also to them being capable of very delicate manouvers which actually shock people around them as it shouldnt look possible. given this image i would imagine the fists are linked into the users Nueral interface via the spine, like PA. that way it would be just like an extension of the body. there are also some references iirc of Marines beinig able to feel with their hands via the armour (whether this also applies to PF i dont know)

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
I'm still not sold on it being the servo motors that do the extra damage. I mean, if you punch something, the fact that you have extra-strong fingers is pretty meaningless. The only real advantage that you have is that it's heavy.

We already have (or have had) rules for this in the form of larger, two-handed weapons. Last I remember, they only gave +1S, not x2S, and it didn't help the Ap at all. You need more than just being heavy, here.

In the case of the eviscerator, it's the spinning teeth that do the Ap. A regular chainsword has some spinning teeth and is Ap-, while a heavy chainsword has more, and is Ap5, and a full 12-foot-long chainsaw sword is Ap2. In this case, it's not a power field, but it is something special.

Likewise, look at power weapons. Chainsaws may be able to slice through armor the more you have, and things like axes and swords have a better Ap than maces. It suggests that weapons that would have a hard time piercing armor (like a bludgeoning weapon) have worse Ap. I mean, you have to give a mace a power field just to stagger it down to Ap4.

I feel like a deactivated power fist wouldn't have anything special to help it pierce armor, whether power field or sharp blade. This would mean Ap-. I guess the remaining question would be about strength, but, as mentioned, heavy things like heavy chainswords and two-handed weapons and mauls give a + to strength, not a x to it.

No, Eviscerators specifically do have power fields. Two-handed Chainswords are rending, according to Codex: Blood Angels.

I'm not sure why it's not mentioned on Lexicanum, and of course 40kWikia is so poorly referenced that it's no use at all, but I am 100% certain that it's true.

The mace thing doesn't really work, by the way. Maces were developed specifically to kill armoured enemies, because they don't rely on cutting to inflict damage. They rely on hitting hard enough that the force of the blow is transmitted through the armour and padding to the soft tissue beneath.

I think a deactivated power fist will be +1 Strength, AP5. I agree that there's not much in the way of physical strength enhancement involved with the Fist.

Since 40k's system is a tad simplistic to ensure that the game doesn't take forever (if there's a way to get dark heresy style rules to work for mass combat let me know) the Mace and a lot of other high strength poor AP weapons are in an odd position of being more effective against tanks than well armored infantry or monstrous creatures.

Which admittedly, doesn't make an awful lot of sense. But the distinction between power weapons is, on a whole; not quite the best thought out (swords are naff, mauls are usually the best by far unless you're fighting MEQs, axes are a poor man's fist, and lances are utterly abysmal) rules wise. Something that can shake up the crew of a tank is probably going to do quite a bit more to a chaos space marine since A. there's much less space between the user and armor in personal armor than in a vehicle, B. Even the poncy Eldar probably have their mainline battle tanks more thickly armored than an Astartes in the areas most likely to take shots.

Translating 40k crunch to fluff and vice versa is a pain in the arse.

In any case, I'm now inclined to agree that the main goal of a power fist's strength enhancers is to actually make it feasible to use the damn thing rather than provide a massive blow. Even massively super-strong folk like Orks, armor clad Astartes, Striking Scorpions, Cyborgs, or power armored Soritas still have to deal with a single power fist being rather unbalancing and awkward to swing around even if they can handle the weight. For Guardsmen or non-power armor clad/cyborgified inquisitors and mercenaries, there's almost certainly some sort of mechanism to make wielding it a more comfortable and fluid experience. Obviously, it's still a slow weapon to swing given the unwieldy rule (unless you're a poncy Eldar), but I'd bet on at least some systems to make it easier to use.

That being said, given how huge and weighty they are, I don't think getting socked by even a no power field power fist is going to be fun.

Guys, cant be neural, the imperial fists have no black carapace.

 the shrouded lord wrote:
Guys, cant be neural, the imperial fists have no black carapace.

A Chapter that lost the Black Carapace implant would die out. The IF only lack the acid/poison saliva and the ability to enter suspended animation, IIRC.

You don't need a Black Carapace to use a neural interface. You can have an implanted link (Tech-Priests neurally operate all kinds of machines, and lack the Black Carapace) or it can be done through what is basically a stick-on pad, like we have in the modern world, where muscle action and electrical impulses cause a machine to behave in a certain way.

The Imperial Fists lack only the Beltcher's Gland and the Sus-an Membrane. I assure you no chapter lacks the Black Carapace. Its what allows you to interface with power armor.

A chapter that lost that would die out very quickly.

Well, as the Sisters and many other people indicate, a Black Carapace is not *required* for integration with a suit of power armor, but it is what allows a Space Marine to act like his armor is a second skin.

Besides, the Black Carapace isn't something the Progenoids make, it's completely independent of Gene Seed and is implanted after being grown outside the body.

If I had a power fist I would open doors exclusively by punching through them. Problem solved.

"Yep. Claws are more fun than doors." - Spider-man.

If I had TDA, I wouldn't even use doors. I would be the Throne-damned Kool-Aid Man everywhere I went, just straight-up bustin through walls.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Besides, the Black Carapace isn't something the Progenoids make, it's completely independent of Gene Seed and is implanted after being grown outside the body.

"There are 19 types of gene-seed, each corresponding to one of the 19 specialised organs implanted into the body of a human male to create a Space Marine." Guess what number 19 is?

And yes, it's not implanted to grow in his body. But: "Many of these organs are cultured in vitro from the gene-seed, whilst others require that the gene-seed be injected into the Aspirant's body and then grow into a new organ using the implantee's own physiological processes."

Some gene-seed implants are grown in labs and fitted to the marine, while others are implanted directly and allowed to develop. The Black Carapace is derived from gene-seed, it's just grown in the lab and then attached to the marine it was meant for.

Anecdote, Calgar can apparently equally easily crush skulls and pick flowers with his power fists. According to C:SM, not sure if it was 5th or 6th.

That is because Calgar is a pimp. Not all SM heroes moonlight as pimps. Thus, their mastery of Pimp Hand is found wanting.

 Psienesis wrote:
That is because Calgar is a pimp. Not all SM heroes moonlight as pimps. Thus, their mastery of Pimp Hand is found wanting.

I just had a good loud laugh to this, gotta add this to my sig.

 Psienesis wrote:
That is because Calgar is a pimp. Not all SM heroes moonlight as pimps. Thus, their mastery of Pimp Hand is found wanting.

We even have proof.