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Don't underestimate anything in this codex, really, most of it can be decent if you plan accordingly.

Take Mutilators, I made it my personal mission to make these guys useful in some way and I found a great way to run them if not a bit expensive.

Abbadon
3x Mutilators w/ Mark of Khorne
Chaos Lord w/ Mark of Khorne and Axe of Blind Fury
All in a Land Raider

It is expensive true, but you still have enough points to play around with to cover some of your other bases and honestly with the current meta AV14 is not something a lot of players have an answer to.

The new Crimson Slaughter supplement makes Possessed a bit better, to the point that I can see paying the points for them.

Hell even Warp Talons w/ an attached Herald of Tzeentch and Book of True Names can get really scary.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Don't underestimate anything in this codex, really, most of it can be decent if you plan accordingly.

Take Mutilators, I made it my personal mission to make these guys useful in some way and I found a great way to run them if not a bit expensive.

Abbadon
3x Mutilators w/ Mark of Khorne
Chaos Lord w/ Mark of Khorne and Axe of Blind Fury
All in a Land Raider

It is expensive true, but you still have enough points to play around with to cover some of your other bases and honestly with the current meta AV14 is not something a lot of players have an answer to.

The new Crimson Slaughter supplement makes Possessed a bit better, to the point that I can see paying the points for them.

Hell even Warp Talons w/ an attached Herald of Tzeentch and Book of True Names can get really scary.

Can't attach the Herald because of the Daemonic Instability Rules. It's stupid. You need to bring him some Horrors or Screamers to hang out with.

I had my (power armor clad) marines take down a super heavey in a 1000 point game today! And you want to know what did more damage than anything? My Helbrute. He is not as terrible as everyone says. Yes really. You really can take (almost) any unit int he codex and make it work, you just need to think tactically be a little lucky.

 Ailaros wrote:
Also, MoK CSM with combi-weapons are pretty neat. They get all the killy of the combi-weapon drop, except then they're extra angry for the turns after that.

Once a bunch of combi-weapon/power axe terminators land, you can sort of ignore them. Once a bunch of combi-weapon/powerfist terminators with MoK and IoW drop in and shoot their weapons, your problems are just beginning.

That could be a bit fun.

Bel'kalor, Heldrakes, and Obliterators are probably the better units in the Codex.

anonymou5 wrote:A fun combo is a bunch of MoK CSM in a Land Raider with Abaddon/Khorne Lord (choice depending on points). Be'lakor hides behind the Raider (he's SOOOO small) and casts invisibility on it. Once you close the distance, Be'lakor kills one thing (ideally a MC), Abaddon another, and the MoK Marines another.

Can a sorcerer cast invisibility on a land raider if he's inside it?

If so, Kharn, a sorcerer, and 4 MoK terminators in a raider could, though ludicrously expensive, do something interesting. Especially if the sorc survived the first turn after they disembarked. Kharn + MoK termies = scary. INVISIBLE kharn + MoK termies = WTF?

ClockworkZion wrote:That could be a bit fun.

For a few months I ran my terminators with MoK, IoW, asst. shooty and power weapons with a few powerfists.

... in a squad of size 10... with an AoBF lord... and with Huron infiltrating them. That was ~600 points of SERIOUS PROBLEM that tended to get an inordinate amount of fire crashing down on them (which left my 40 khorne berzerkers to rush forward relatively unmolested, depending on opponent).

God damn I want some CSM. My friend is selling me the DV CSM set for £15. Then I aint to sure where to go. all the models for CSM(bar a few) look awesome.

Including the DV CSM set where would you go in terms of buying units? Im on a budget. But I want this to be a long term project, where every model is something I put alot of hours in. The new CSM Marine kit looks great but I cant see me needing them with the DV set, Mutilators?

So...Raptors or Warp Talons? And if Raptors, what kind of special weapon should I be looking at?

You know, I honestly missed not knowing the ins and outs of my codex so deeply that I had all the answers to the book without thinking about that. There is something liberating about that.

EDIT: I poked around, and went with Raptors, gave one a Flamer and the Champ a pair of Lighting Claws. I'm going to (eventually) add 5 more (one of which will also have a Flamer) and likely an IoK with SoW (or perhaps go Slaaneshi and take the IoE) and use them to clear out objectives or hunt down units like Pathfinders/Imperial Guard Heavy Weapon Teams. I think it's a good use for them overall but I'm willing to be told I'm an idiot and should use them differently.

To add to the list of anecdotal CSM units performing well, my Khârn has been fielded in six games now. He has not died a single time (Though in one 1K battle it was only him and 4 raptors left, heh) and has always made his points back.

Khârn is gold.

 Ailaros wrote:

anonymou5 wrote:A fun combo is a bunch of MoK CSM in a Land Raider with Abaddon/Khorne Lord (choice depending on points). Be'lakor hides behind the Raider (he's SOOOO small) and casts invisibility on it. Once you close the distance, Be'lakor kills one thing (ideally a MC), Abaddon another, and the MoK Marines another.

Can a sorcerer cast invisibility on a land raider if he's inside it?

If so, Kharn, a sorcerer, and 4 MoK terminators in a raider could, though ludicrously expensive, do something interesting. Especially if the sorc survived the first turn after they disembarked. Kharn + MoK termies = scary. INVISIBLE kharn + MoK termies = WTF?

ClockworkZion wrote:That could be a bit fun.

For a few months I ran my terminators with MoK, IoW, asst. shooty and power weapons with a few powerfists.

... in a squad of size 10... with an AoBF lord... and with Huron infiltrating them. That was ~600 points of SERIOUS PROBLEM that tended to get an inordinate amount of fire crashing down on them (which left my 40 khorne berzerkers to rush forward relatively unmolested, depending on opponent).

I think by the strictest RAW interpretation the Sorc cannot buff the Land Raider, since he can't draw LOS to it. However, I think it is generally accepted that you can buff your transport from inside.

The advantage to Be'lakor is that he ALWAYS has invis, and he kicks the crap out of other MCs.

 anonymou5 wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Don't underestimate anything in this codex, really, most of it can be decent if you plan accordingly.

Take Mutilators, I made it my personal mission to make these guys useful in some way and I found a great way to run them if not a bit expensive.

Abbadon
3x Mutilators w/ Mark of Khorne
Chaos Lord w/ Mark of Khorne and Axe of Blind Fury
All in a Land Raider

It is expensive true, but you still have enough points to play around with to cover some of your other bases and honestly with the current meta AV14 is not something a lot of players have an answer to.

The new Crimson Slaughter supplement makes Possessed a bit better, to the point that I can see paying the points for them.

Hell even Warp Talons w/ an attached Herald of Tzeentch and Book of True Names can get really scary.

Can't attach the Herald because of the Daemonic Instability Rules. It's stupid. You need to bring him some Horrors or Screamers to hang out with.

Sorry, you are correct. Point remains, you can use the Book of True Names on them and they will become much tougher.

Honestly, I love my khorne CSM. The only unit I've fielded that has performed poorly is the helbrute, but that is just a personal issue I'm sure
My standard list is built around either Kharn + 2 10 strong berzerker units or Juggerlord + 2 10 strong berzerker units. Past that I just add in a bit of this and a bit of that. My group also has been using more and more LoS blocking terrain, which has had a great impact on the survivability of my footsloging MEQ assault units. Star units I've had are maulerfiends w/ the melta thingies, CSM/chosen in a rhino (chosen if I use Abaddon aka "Khorneaddon", CC kitted defilers [battlecannon + 6 attack 12/12/10 daemon walker) and my cultist champion whom for some reason not only manages to win 80% of his challenges, but has an unhealthy habit of transforming into a daemon prince immediately after.

Honestly, on to your question, decide on something you like and roll with it. I managed to make khorne berserkers work because I love them. If you like 1ksons, figure out a way to make them work and win like crazy with them. As it's been said before, AP3 bolters are definitely a thing. And despite how some will say "oh they are just overpriced marines who will die to lasguns like tissuepaper", the vast majority of marine losses are to things like battlecannons, riptide ion cannons, and the herpderp that are shuriken weapons, which that handy 4++ will promptly show exactly how much it cares [caring <=0].

The dark gods rewards the devout

1KSons are still awful. Yes, they have an invul and better guns, but their ineptitude in CC makes up for that. No grenades, no special weapons, no anything.

And Mutilators... I just embarrassingly awful.
But yes, there are a lot of different ways to run your army with some imagination. I just can't run the lists I want to and not be wiped off the table, that's why I gave up on playing Chaos.

MWHistorian wrote:1KSons are still awful. Yes, they have an invul and better guns, but their ineptitude in CC makes up for that. No grenades, no special weapons, no anything.

1ksons have a 4++ and a marine statline. That makes them in the top half of units in CC.

Even if they were bad, are you really suggesting that things that are bad in close combat are awful? Because I know some tau and eldar players who might disagree with that sentiment...

If you are going to play CSM for fun: take 1 Turkey and 1 unit of 5 spawn.

If you are going to play in tournaments; take 2 Turkeys and 1 unit of 5 spawn or 3 turkeys.

 Alphabet wrote:
I hear a lot of complaints about these guys other than there flyer is godlike.

Im seriously interested in starting CSM as they look so cool, but the Helldrake isnt something I wanna run, quite a few whiney players at my FLGS.

Is there any units I should stay clear from, or does it not matter if I go Noise marines, Khorne berserkerz etc.

The thousand sons are something Im really interested in atm along with the Khorne style of CSM.

MoN Bikers
Land Raider
Plague Marines
Obliterators
MoN, Black Mace Lord on a bike
Cultists
Noise Marines
Sorcerer
Predator
Mutilators
Heldrake
all fun units.. CC Terminators/Raptors too if you like to deep strike. go double force org and drop tonsof stuff all over his backfield.

 Ailaros wrote:

MWHistorian wrote:1KSons are still awful. Yes, they have an invul and better guns, but their ineptitude in CC makes up for that. No grenades, no special weapons, no anything.

1ksons have a 4++ and a marine statline. That makes them in the top half of units in CC.

Even if they were bad, are you really suggesting that things that are bad in close combat are awful? Because I know some tau and eldar players who might disagree with that sentiment...

for the points they cost they would have to be ++2 and have more attacks or be a lot faster . How much does a unit of them cost 400pts?

The CSM book is a somewhat solid book, it does however have several massive problems that really kill its potential.
1) unless you take a Nurgle or Slaanesh Lord, our troops are terrible. Basic Chaos Space Marines are among the worst troops in the game due to their lack of ATSKNF and CTs and I highly advise not using them. Cultists, while not bad don't do much besides sit on an objective. Thousand Sons are atrocious, almost as bad as 5th Ed Chaos Spawn, avoid at all costs. Khorne Bezerkers require to much to be useful unless you pigeonhole yourself into a certain type of list (and they lose combat against Plague Marines, run the numbers).

2) we have no deployment options. No scouts, no outflank, no drop pods, very limited infiltrate. Our only reliable deployment is to march across the field which can get stall for some players

3) if you play chaos for the fluff this book is an absolute POS. It is almost impossible to play any kind of fluffy army and those that are possible are represented incorrectly. (Black Legion are all Veterans, but in the fluff of the same book it says they have mostly renegades) This is probably the biggest failing of the Codex.

However, the Codex does have some stuff going for it,
1) CSM are arguably the best or second assault army in the game right now. However, assault in 6th Ed is kind of bad so take from that what you will

2) We have the Heldrake. Some people will tell you that Heldrakes are fine and some will tell you they are the most broken thing ever. They are both wrong the Heldrake is a very scary unit and makes us very efficient at killing the other guy's troops and keeps the Coex just above Blood Angels in playability.

3) We aren't thee worst Codex in the game, yet, Blood Angels still need an update.

1. Buy the CSM Codex
2. Put together the army you want to play in the way that it looks
3. Buy the SM codex and pick the units/rules which match your army the best
4: Play as traitor space marines using the SM codex

Probably have a lot more fun doing this if you don't want to be cookie cutter.