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Hi guys, on 30th march i'll go to Milan for a Tournament, here the list i wish to deploy.

- Company Command + Mortar

- Infantry Platoon #1
+ Platoon command + 4 flames
Infantry squad (las.cannon + melta bombs + power axe)
Infantry squad (las.cannon + melta bombs + power axe)
Infantry squad (las.cannon + melta bombs + power axe)
Infantry squad (las.cannon + melta bombs + power axe)
Infantry squad (las.cannon + melta bombs + power axe + commissar)

Veteran squad (3 melta)

Vendetta gunship
Vendetta gunship

Leman Russ Ext (full heavy bolter + Pask)
Leman Russ Dem
Manticore

Egida (relee)

what do you think about it? i wish it will works fine.
i responsibly to not deploy three Vendetta because imho Leman Russ would be better. What about this list?
Thank you.

This list would not be good against white scars. They will be taking their cover aave with them and be in melta range turn one (scout plus move plus 6 inches) plus the mandatory 3 thunder fires will rip that huge squad apart. If i may make a recommendation. You may want a coluses. Ap 3 strength 6 barrage ingores cover will ripe apart the scary units in a white scars list and give you the ability to kill a seer star.

wpago wrote:
This list would not be good against white scars. They will be taking their cover aave with them and be in melta range turn one (scout plus move plus 6 inches) plus the mandatory 3 thunder fires will rip that huge squad apart. If i may make a recommendation. You may want a coluses. Ap 3 strength 6 barrage ingores cover will ripe apart the scary units in a white scars list and give you the ability to kill a seer star.

That's true but coluses have a very low armour. Enemies can beat it just throwing stones.. not a lot of people plays white scars atm. I'm very scared about eldar and tau..

Alright, you know your meta better than me but if your going to any big touraments white scars are a very top teir army. I mean i can reliably beat taudar with them. But anyways the beauty of a colouses is that they can fire indirect and wounds come from the center of blast plus it ingores cover. Ao this will help against seer star. Cause instead of a 2+ rerollable cover save they have a 4++ rerollable. Plus since the wounda come from center of blast you can target the people with the phsyic powera you want dead

Alright, so correct me if I am wrong but you are going for:
5x Infantry squad (las.cannon + melta bombs + power axe) = = = Static Gun Line
Company Command + Mortar = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Sit behind gun line
Manticore = = = = = = = = = = = = = = == = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =Sit behind gun line

Platoon command + 4 flames AND Vendetta gunship = = = = = = = Drop where you need them
Veteran squad (3 melta) AND Vendetta gunship = = = = = = = = = = Drop where you need them

Leman Russ Ext (full heavy bolter + Pask) = = = = = = = = = = = = = Drive around due to low range
Leman Russ Dem = = = == == = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Drive around due to low range

Egida (relee) = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ummm..... I have no idea what you mean.... "Linea di Difesa Egida" ???? Aegis defense line? If so, then I guess put your gun line behind would be your plan

So, here is what I think:
1. The 25 points you are spending on meltabombs is completely wasted, any vehicle that will get into assault with them will kill the squad before I1 comes around and any vehicle that couldnt do this would not sit there as you move them 6" a turn at them.

2. Giving 5 lascannons to your infantry squads is stupid, your squad will either fire 1 lascannon shot or none. Drop them and you will get 100 points, use that and what you got from the meltabombs and get some heavy weapon squads! That way your infantry can fire their flashlights and your heavy weapons squad can fire their heavy weapons.

3. Make sure to bubble wrap your manticore in troops in the rear in case of deep strike,

4. If you are suiciding the meltavets and the PCS (which you should be) make sure to disembark the vets as fast as you can and wait to drop the PCS near the end on some light troops to stop them from grabbing the objective.

5. You DO NOT have enough armor to be putting pask in an exterminator, it will die first turn since your enemy will have nothing else to aim all of their AP1/2 weapons at. Instead use the 220 points on getting 3 heavy weapon squads of 3 autocannons each (9 autocannons= 19 str7 shots vs pask ext having 4 str 8 shots).

6. Again! You do not have enough armor to field that demolisher. It will die first turn and its weapon will be of no use because of its short range. You have the vendettas, meltavets, and lascannon heavy weapon teams for armor popping, so you just need something for 2+ save units. Enter: Plasma vets, get two vet squads with 3 plasmaguns in each will give you 12 ap2 shots if you rapid fire. Problem solved.

So, if you make the suggested changes I laid out, you will be able to kill almost everything, You still will have all the weaknesses your original army had and which all blob guard armies have.

edit: You need more plasma than you do those flamers, give your PCS plasmaguns.

Your number 1 and 2 don;t really make sense and I would argue is not great advice.
Your logic doesnt make much sense when it comes to meltabombs. What walkers out ther can kill 50 guardsmen? The reason you take meltabombs is so you can deal with something that is trying to tie up your big blob.

I agree 5 lascannons in your blob squad may not be optimal, but either are single heavy weapon teams. At least the way he has it they are hidden in the blob. I would say drop the group down to forty, maybe switch to autocannons and add in some allied psyhic support. Bring Coteaz for 100 points. he does so many good things for blobs, its almost a must take in my opinion.

TableTopJosh wrote:
Your number 1 and 2 don;t really make sense and I would argue is not great advice.
Your logic doesnt make much sense when it comes to meltabombs. What walkers out ther can kill 50 guardsmen? The reason you take meltabombs is so you can deal with something that is trying to tie up your big blob.

I agree 5 lascannons in your blob squad may not be optimal, but either are single heavy weapon teams. At least the way he has it they are hidden in the blob. I would say drop the group down to forty, maybe switch to autocannons and add in some allied psyhic support. Bring Coteaz for 100 points. he does so many good things for blobs, its almost a must take in my opinion.

1. A single meltabomb is useless facing walkers in a tournament. In a 6th edition tournament nobody in their right mind is going use a walker to tie up 10 guardsmen. I was saying that anything such as a walker that would engage them in CC would wipe them out before I1, any walker/vehicle that isnt used as a close combat machine isnt going to be wasted to tie up 10 guardsmen. And if you think that said model would stand in one place as 10 guardsmen advanced towards it, you would be mistaken. In 6th edition walkers arent used to tie up models, especially in a tournament, especially on 10 guardsmen.

2. 2 Heavy weapon teams of 3 lascannons each is optimal in a guardblob list.

Also: Switching to autocannons is a terrible idea, you would suggest that in a tournament setting he rely on Vendettas that are coming in on reserves and get one, maybe two shots at a target before going off the other end of the board? Please.

I like blob lists for IG, they're a lot of fun!

A few recommendations:

1: Drop the lascannons from the blob squad or drop the axes, taking both is indicative of not having a clear goal for the unit. You're either gunlining it in which case you don't need power weapons, or, you're using them to tarpit/overwhelm a target in bodies which means you'll be moving and snap shotting 5 lascannons. Either way, decide what you want to do and stick to it.

2. I've seen Veterans run in Vendetta's before to some success, but they're better off in Chimeras. Let your Vendettas do what the rest of your army can't; deal with fliers like bosses. Run the Chimera-vets separately or along with your Russes to provide some nasty infantry support or use them to run in and smash some infantry holding an objective.

3. Leman Russ Exterminators are one of my favorite tanks. But, the way you have this one built is sort of interesting; three heavy bolters shoot at 36", the Autocannons shoot at 48. While you don't have to worry about the ordnance issue with your sponsons, you do have to worry about the range differences. Also, I've found taking Pask on anything other than a Vanquisher or Punisher gunboat doesn't really do much. if you want a dakka Russ take a Punisher (it's more expensive, but hey, heavy 20 str 5) and give it three heavy bolters. All the same range, same strength, and with Pask you're shooting with Marine BS and scaring MC's to death. Vanquisher speaks for itself, heh.

4. The Demolisher is a great tank, that strength 10 ap 2 blast is scary and built into a Russ chassis you can almost guarantee getting a few shots in. But if I could offer another idea; try an Executioner. True it's far more expensive in points (you can find the wiggle room easily when those lascannons from the IS' are removed) but the longer range, multiple blast plasma shots will probably net you a better return on your investment. If you're feeling bold, put plasma cannon spons on it too and watch MEQ/TEQ's cry. My philosophy when running a Russ is to figure out what I want it to do; in this case the Demolisher will attract a lot of fire and die quickly and the same goes for the Executioner, but the difference being that the latter will be in range FAR faster than the former.

Here's a list I would run:

HQ - CCS w/ 4 Meltas in Chimera

Troops - PCS w/ 4 flamers
PIS - power axe and Comiissar w/ power axe
PIS - power axe
PIS - power axe
PIS - power axe

Veterans w/ 3 meltas in Chimera

Vendetta
Vendetta

Leman Russ Punisher w/ 3 Heavy Bolters and Pask
Leman Russ Executioner
Manticore


1495.

 Frankenberry wrote:


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
1495.

I like these suggestions, but I disagree on the chimera point. Having them ride in vendettas is free, fast, and has less time for the transport to get shot, especially since these are suicide squads its nice to not have to waste a transport when they can just jump down from the vendettas.

@ Ryan A
I thought he blobbed these troops together so obviously that changes things. And yes people would very happily tie a large blob up with a walker, soif you are going blob you should bring meltabombs.

Also you obvisouly dont play IG much. Running heavy weapons teams on their own is not good, especailly running lascannons. They are pricey, BS3, toughness 3, and have terrible morale, so please stop commenting on tournament level things that you cant back up.
Thirdly autocannons are great in blobs. Lascannons are good but more expensive. IG, especially without presience need volume of fire to do well, and at 10 points autocannons work well. I have no idea where you are coming up with your opinions. Look up any torunament winning blob ig, most will run autocannons, metltabombs and power weapons.
Also for orignial poster, its a little cheesy but check into Coteaz, his grenades, leadership, stubborn, abilities and pyshic powers make your blobs so much better, and he is a 100 points

TableTopJosh wrote:
@ Ryan A
I thought he blobbed these troops together so obviously that changes things. And yes people would very happily tie a large blob up with a walker, soif you are going blob you should bring meltabombs.

Also you obvisouly dont play IG much. Running heavy weapons teams on their own is not good, especailly running lascannons. They are pricey, BS3, toughness 3, and have terrible morale, so please stop commenting on tournament level things that you cant back up.
Thirdly autocannons are great in blobs. Lascannons are good but more expensive. IG, especially without presience need volume of fire to do well, and at 10 points autocannons work well. I have no idea where you are coming up with your opinions. Look up any torunament winning blob ig, most will run autocannons, metltabombs and power weapons.
Also for orignial poster, its a little cheesy but check into Coteaz, his grenades, leadership, stubborn, abilities and pyshic powers make your blobs so much better, and he is a 100 points

Read in my first post (where I am trying to decipher his intents), I assumed he was using a gun line, not a blob. I think this is where the confusion is occurring.

Regardless of insults being thrown back and forth I believe in a gun line that heavy weapon teams of 3 lascannons work wonders.

Sorry about getting snitty with you earlier.

Not worth it in many players eyes, too eaaily instant killed and run off the table.
Go Forge world for lascannons, forget the name right now but they have artillery rules, twinlinked and interceptor. Super good

TableTopJosh wrote:
Not worth it in many players eyes, too eaaily instant killed and run off the table.
Go Forge world for lascannons, forget the name right now but they have artillery rules, twinlinked and interceptor. Super good

His tournament may not allow FW (most dont). Where does he go for anti-AV that isnt reserve, something I believe is a must in a tournament list.

Edit: The reason the lascannon weapon teams are so much of a good fit for his army is that he has anti av in reserve. The teams will last him up until and a little while after his reserves arrive. When I recommended them to his tournament list I did so not based on what everyone thinks of the unit nor on the unit's track record in other lists, I suggested it based on his list. His list needs anti av that will work until his reserves arrive, and this unit for him will do that in spades. Maybe my tournament knowledge on IG isnt as low as you first thought...

Oh oh oh all of you suggest a lot of interesting things, i'm really scared about using chimera because it is very low on armour and enemies could beat it easily. I choose pask in ext to take an additional mid tanks penetration and it works fine on this way. I deploy infantry with melta bombs to scares any monster to rush on the blob, just think about wright knight.. 5 melta bombs attacks could do something. Obviously I think to use platoon in a defensive way behind aegis line.

Lunicko wrote:
Oh oh oh all of you suggest a lot of interesting things, i'm really scared about using chimera because it is very low on armour and enemies could beat it easily. I choose pask in ext to take an additional mid tanks penetration and it works fine on this way. I deploy infantry with melta bombs to scares any monster to rush on the blob, just think about wright knight.. 5 melta bombs attacks could do something. Obviously I think to use platoon in a defensive way behind aegis line.

Alright, it helps to know how you use your army.

Don't you worry that in a 1500 point tournament that your enemy will have enough anti AV that they will pop your executioner and demolisher first turn? You will have to deploy them away from your blob to use the weapons effectively since 24" and 48" is not very far. My problem is that you have only 2 AV targets, in a 1500 point tourny every competent player will have enough anti AV to take on 6 targets at once, and since you only have two, they wont last long at all. Yes pask on an executioner works in theory, but you just dont have the army to support it. If you had 4 or 5 other Leman Russes than it works great, but only having two AV targets in a 1500 point list is just asking to slogged down with anti AV first turn

 Ryan_A wrote:

Lunicko wrote:
Oh oh oh all of you suggest a lot of interesting things, i'm really scared about using chimera because it is very low on armour and enemies could beat it easily. I choose pask in ext to take an additional mid tanks penetration and it works fine on this way. I deploy infantry with melta bombs to scares any monster to rush on the blob, just think about wright knight.. 5 melta bombs attacks could do something. Obviously I think to use platoon in a defensive way behind aegis line.

Alright, it helps to know how you use your army.

Don't you worry that in a 1500 point tournament that your enemy will have enough anti AV that they will pop your executioner and demolisher first turn? You will have to deploy them away from your blob to use the weapons effectively since 24" and 48" is not very far. My problem is that you have only 2 AV targets, in a 1500 point tourny every competent player will have enough anti AV to take on 6 targets at once, and since you only have two, they wont last long at all. Yes pask on an executioner works in theory, but you just dont have the army to support it. If you had 4 or 5 other Leman Russes than it works great, but only having two AV targets in a 1500 point list is just asking to slogged down with anti AV first turn

And what the solution about that? i don't think that a full leman russ list works better in a tournament than this one, or not?

Lunicko im not trying to sound mean but i wouldnt listen to what Ryan is saying or at least dont take it to serioisly. I think try your list out, sse how it plays against your local opponents and adjust accoedingly.

However im telling you, getting coteaz and an aegis wirh quadgun would be number 1 prority. Also if you wanted to save points, even though i really like manticores too, you could change it out for a basilisk. If you found a 100 points you would be surprised how much better Coteaz makes your army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You are lacking on target saturation with your armor sk like Ryab did say some games it may be tough to keep those two tanks alive, the manticore you should be able to hide. But a lot of armies dont bring many things that can deal with av14 that well, but you have to protect youe side and rear with LRs

TableTopJosh wrote:Lunicko im not trying to sound mean but i wouldnt listen to what Ryan is saying or at least dont take it to serioisly...


You are lacking on target saturation with your armor sk like Ryab did say.

Im confused, the one point I am trying to drive home is his lack of target saturation on his early game anti AV (which is his armor). You say dont listen to me, then you agree with me. Seems to me like you may just be upset.

Lunicko wrote:
And what the solution about that? i don't think that a full leman russ list works better in a tournament than this one, or not?

Very true, and I am suggesting the exact opposite. If you are going mass infantry, keep going that route. Like I said earlier, lascannon weapon teams are exactly what you need. Yes, popular opinion on them is that they are bad, and for most armies they are. But Im not here to tell you how they are not good for other armies, I am here to tell you that they are exactly what you need.

1. Your enemy will bring two things, X amount of anti AV and X amount of anti infantry.
2. Having a few AV targets and a lot of anti infantry targets ensure that all of the enemies anti AV will focus on those (they will have a lot in a tournament to fight off lists such as LR spam) and your tanks will die fast. All of their anti infantry will focus on your infantry, but you have a lot of infantry, so that should not be a problem.
3. My advice is to replace your few tanks with more infantry that do what you wanted your tanks to do. All of your enemies anti AV will be wasted by shooting into your infantry spam. And all of their anti infantry has even more infantry they have to worry about using, which will increase the survivability of both what you wanted your tanks to do and your whole army in general.

I've been playing since 99', consider what I am saying.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TableTopJosh wrote:
Not worth it in many players eyes, too eaaily instant killed and run off the table.

This guy keeps saying what popular opinion is. He is giving advice for IG armies, not adivce for your list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TableTopJosh wrote:

Also you obvisouly dont play IG much.

This guy is full of crap. Just 18 days ago he said "Im just getting into IG" in this thread he started: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/582575.page

I played IG from 2007-2012, then got back into them October.
I've Played Space Marines from 1999-2013
I've also toyed around with friend's armies a negligible amount of time.

I just find it funny that he tells me I dont play much IG when 18 days ago he says he is just starting. This guy probably just reads stuff on forums and tells people how to play based on what people say. No wonder he is citing popular opinion all the time.

Haha, i have learned more rhan you since then, i also know how warhammer works and i have a friend who plays IG all the time so even better i know how t beat them. There is also a reason popul ar opinion exists,it exists because its based on th however many years the IG codex.has been.out. Go ahead and run single HWSs you will learn.what thousands of other players have already learned, or you could take everyone elses advice.
Either way im done here because this is some other guys thread.

I'm not sure what your tactics are but i'd save your points on the power axes and metla bombs......not drop the lascannons.

As if you move you will only be able to snap fire them.

Also do you have another manticore as i believe they work best in 2s or 3s?

Also may be worth including a Master of Ordinance?

TableTopJosh wrote:
Haha, i have learned more rhan you since then, i also know how warhammer works and i have a friend who plays IG all the time so even better i know how t beat them. There is also a reason popul ar opinion exists,it exists because its based on th however many years the IG codex.has been.out. Go ahead and run single HWSs you will learn.what thousands of other players have already learned, or you could take everyone elses advice.
Either way im done here because this is some other guys thread.

You still haven't learned how to type in English...

As far as "take everyone elses advice", that doesn't apply to OP. He isn't asking how to start an IG army, he is asking about how to improve his list.

Glad you are done here, you've embarrassed yourself enough.