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Played my first game and we did 100pts.

I took

2 Vanguard Morats with Combi
1 Vanguard Morat LT
1 Vanguard Morat HMG
1 Treitak Anyat with K1 Combi, smoke, e/m grenades

His army was aleph

3 dakini tac bots
some hacker dude who hid in a building all game
Some thoraktikai girl character with a spitfire


Turn 1 ( I went first)

I moved up to cover areas I knew he would try and move through but I failed to account for minitism so my guys were outgunned and my two basic vanguards died quickly as long range, cover, minimitism...is impossible to shoot back at and my dodge rolls failed for both guys.

Turn 2 I went for a gamble with my climbing plus anyat chick who scaled the building the thoraktikai hero was in (who I was 100% sure was his LT) she then tried to drop smoke at the door to jump down and charge the hero girl but rolled a 20 and it scattered...so I went for a straight up face to face with my last order and murdered her. He went into Loss of LT.

Turn 3 Anyat got shot but dakini bot who was a paramedic...........who spent the second order getting to the hero girl and failed to rez her!

Turn 4 - LT and HMG left, my HMG is on a building top and I try and jump down to flank that dakini bot medic and gun him down. I pass my climbing check, the building is 3" tall so I need to pass an ARM 3 roll and I rolled a 2....so my HMG dies...GAME OVER!

Things I learned -

CC is a short order. I thought all I needed to do was get into base to base and we would fight.

Furthermore, if I move into base to base and have no orders to give his guy gets to react and can shoot me? I didn't know this was posslbe as I was going to just base to base him and force the CC in his turn as I did know it requires an order from him at least once.

Sounds like you had fun. A few notes?

CC, it is a short skill, so you do a move/CC order. You're opponent may shoot, Dodge or CC as an ARO -- there may be a few others.

You move into base contact, and CC with the second short skill. If you did something like shoot/move into base, (Not wise-- always move/shoot. You shoot at any point during your movement so get into the habit of always declaring move first) you will not get a CC attack. Your opponent still gets his AROs.

If you simply move into BtB at the end of your turn, and your opponent is in Loss of Lt, he must reserve on of his 2 orders for CC. So he cannot nominate a new Lt that turn. Nasty trick. You'll need to survive the AROs though. Move (into BtB) and Dodge generally.

CC is not the best way to fight. This is a shooting game. 1 CC attack versus a full burst from a gun? No choice really.

 Red Harvest wrote:

CC is not the best way to fight. This is a shooting game. 1 CC attack versus a full burst from a gun? No choice really.

I've only just started actually playing the game last weekend after spending far too long looking for opponents. I found this out the hard way.

A myrmidion killed William Wallace in cc then proceeded to get stabbed in the chest by a cheerleader with a knife and die. Lost me the game where a burst from my combi rifle would have won it.

CC is a rare circumstance kind of thing, and it requires certain equipment load outs and the right situations to make worthwhile. I see Pupniks and Yojimbo regularly make it into CC and wreck shop. CC can also be used as a hanging threat to control your opponent's movement like TAGs and HI shying away from Penthesilea. Then there's Coup de Grace which is probably the most common CC attack.

 Red Harvest wrote:
(Not wise-- always move/shoot. You shoot at any point during your movement so get into the habit of always declaring move first)

I would caveat that if you intend to move out of cover, you should shoot then move. A competent opponent will take his ARO shot at the point you leave cover plus it's better to see the results of the FtF before committing to any movement. A counter caveat would be leaving cover for the sweet spot range modifier (moving from -3 to +3 is a whopping +6 to hit), in that case it might be a good idea to move-shoot if you're not putting the opposing model in its +3 range. Like almost everything in Infinity it's situational.

The thing with CC is units that are made to be awesome at CC usually have a way to get there. Achilles and Ajax are absolute tanks, and Achilles is human sized to boot. Myrmidons have ODD. Kitsune is practically a ghost. Speculo Killers and Fidays impersonate their way into CC. If played properly, these sorts of units can and will reach CC and murder whatever they touch, though probably eat enough incoming AROs in reaction to die, with the exception of Achilles and Ajax.

The problem is when people apply the 40k mentality and see a highish CC stat and automatically assume it's a unit that's meant to get into CC. A high CC stat and/or a CC skill are generally a CC defense. To recognise a CC offense, you need to look for not only a good CC stat and CC skill or two, but also a way to actually get there without being shot to pieces.

A good example of a CC skill as a defense is an Odalisque. iKhol 3 puts anyone in CC with her at -9 CC. That's pretty huge. But she lacks a dedicated CC weapon, and while she has NWI, she'll probably bite the dust before reaching CC. It's there purely as a way to help her fight off a CC attack, rather than actively try to perform one.

 4rgfvsw6p wrote:

 Red Harvest wrote:
(Not wise-- always move/shoot. You shoot at any point during your movement so get into the habit of always declaring move first)

I would caveat that if you intend to move out of cover, you should shoot then move. A competent opponent will take his ARO shot at the point you leave cover plus it's better to see the results of the FtF before committing to any movement.

How do you see the results of the FtF roll before moving?

just learned another CC rule that might have changed the game.

When I killed the thoraktakai girl I was facing her int he building and the dakini was behind me and killed me.

Reading the CC rules after winning I could have turned to face so I would have been able to have an ARO to the dakini.

sounds right?

Yep, there is no facing in CC so when the CC ends the model can be turned to face in any direction.

 IJW wrote:

 4rgfvsw6p wrote:

 Red Harvest wrote:
(Not wise-- always move/shoot. You shoot at any point during your movement so get into the habit of always declaring move first)

I would caveat that if you intend to move out of cover, you should shoot then move. A competent opponent will take his ARO shot at the point you leave cover plus it's better to see the results of the FtF before committing to any movement.

How do you see the results of the FtF roll before moving?

By not paying enough attention to what I'm writing when I'm writing it.

Ah!

To clear up any possible misconceptions bought up by that earlier post...

Rolls are made after all skills (active and reactive) have been declared.
Shots can be fired during any point in a move (doesn't matter if it's move-shoot or shoot-move) and the active model can be fired at during any point in it's move.
The limitation with shoot-move is that you can only target models that were visible from the original position.

When would you want to do a shoot-move? As mentioned, when considering moving out of cover/across an alleyway etc. - start by declaring a BS Attack short skill and if the enemy model declares a Dodge ARO (or throw smoke etc.) you can safely declare a move short skill out of cover because their ARO can't harm you.

 IJW wrote:

Shots can be fired during any point in a move (doesn't matter if it's move-shoot or shoot-move) and the active model can be fired at during any point in it's move.

I have been playing this wrong for years... Hmm, well not wrong but I've been hamstringing myself.

Infinity Wiki wrote:When shooting, the player can always choose the moment during the execution of his order in which to attack.

I think I've read this line a couple times but never really processed it in context of shoot-move.