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here is why the codex is bad...

you want to assault people....
+ if your ride blows up, half of your squad dies in the explosion... you fail your moral check half of the time for pinning... then take more hits form mob rule... then take more hits half the time when you fail moral... and you are left with NOTHING...
+trukks die to everything
+battlewagons went up in cost and deffrollas are only on Death or glory attempts....

If you want to spam 18 killa kans...
+you just spent 900pts on 3 units that will amost certainly auto lose vs anything with range over 24 inches...

if you want to outshoot your opponent...
+you are playing orks... why are you trying to outshoot your opponent?

want to run biker nobs or bikes?
+tau ignore cover, and have lots of AP 4... you lose models so fast you can't play an actual game... and you can't be troops anymore to spam them to make up for it....
+loss of invul makes nob bikers pop like crazy....
+need to use HQ slots for KFF meks on bikes or Docs on bikes for FNP....

 ciaflayed1 wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Didn't Burans also have an extra D6 armour penetration? Or was that only in the 3rd Ed book...?

I can't verify that in last Codex, so I would have to say no. I find nothing to support that, may have been 3rd, I started with Orks when the last Codex dropped.

Ah, thought so but just checking. Haven't played my Orks since 3rd. Was hoping this codex would catch my interest. So far not really...

 ciaflayed1 wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Didn't Burans also have an extra D6 armour penetration? Or was that only in the 3rd Ed book...?

I can't verify that in last Codex, so I would have to say no. I find nothing to support that, may have been 3rd, I started with Orks when the last Codex dropped.

unusual power weapons was 6th ed core rules.

the extra d6 was in close combat only 3rd ed codex after the 3rd ed faq

 whembly wrote:

 ciaflayed1 wrote:

rhavien wrote:
Someone mentioned about 50 pages in the past, that burnaboyz can use their flamer and still have AP3 in melee in the same round? Never seen anyone talking about that again. Was it just a hoax? If that's true those hot fellas would be really cool now!

I can confirm that, AP3 if they do NOT fire in the shooting phase.

Are they still AP3 if they were used during "Wall-o-death" if assaulted?

the new book says "It can't use both profiles in the same turn."

 frgsinwntr wrote:

 ciaflayed1 wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Didn't Burans also have an extra D6 armour penetration? Or was that only in the 3rd Ed book...?

I can't verify that in last Codex, so I would have to say no. I find nothing to support that, may have been 3rd, I started with Orks when the last Codex dropped.

unusual power weapons was 6th ed core rules.

the extra d6 was in close combat only 3rd ed codex after the 3rd ed faq

OK, I never played a game in 6th, so my apology.

 ciaflayed1 wrote:

 frgsinwntr wrote:

 ciaflayed1 wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Didn't Burans also have an extra D6 armour penetration? Or was that only in the 3rd Ed book...?

I can't verify that in last Codex, so I would have to say no. I find nothing to support that, may have been 3rd, I started with Orks when the last Codex dropped.

unusual power weapons was 6th ed core rules.

the extra d6 was in close combat only 3rd ed codex after the 3rd ed faq

OK, I never played a game in 6th, so my apology.

No apology needed.

....

 frgsinwntr wrote:
here is why the codex is bad...

you want to assault people....
+ if your ride blows up, half of your squad dies in the explosion... you fail your moral check half of the time for pinning... then take more hits form mob rule... then take more hits half the time when you fail moral... and you are left with NOTHING...
+trukks die to everything
+battlewagons went up in cost and deffrollas are only on Death or glory attempts....

If you want to spam 18 killa kans...
+you just spent 900pts on 3 units that will amost certainly auto lose vs anything with range over 24 inches...

if you want to outshoot your opponent...
+you are playing orks... why are you trying to outshoot your opponent?

You're completely talking out of your posterior, mate, with handwave dismissal statements. Sure, you lose that Trukk, you may have lost the squad too, but they're probably barely over 125~ points. If you mass Trukk Boys, some of them have to reach the enemy, and when they do, you rip them to pieces if they're light infantry, power klaw them to death if they're heavier, and generally cause chaos. You support this effort with your other support elements that neutralise the Trukk killers and remove the hard hitters. This has always been the Ork philosophy, you take a few fair casualties but when you get in the optimum zone you wreck your opponent . You don't take a 100 Ork horde and expect all of them to reach the enemy, just under 2/3rds will actually make it there.

I honestly can't tell you how to make the ideal Trukk list that makes it worthwhile, but I'm willing to bet there's a way to do it, and the first step is not saying "hurr durr won't ever work"

Battlewagons went up in cost, but they're still a good unit and a good transport.

Granted, Killa Kans are going to have issues dealing with the super-S7 dealers, so going mass Kans means you need a strategy to deal with those S7 dealers simultaneously. That's why you either take something else instead of just Kans in HS, or take S7-dealer-killers from other FOC sections.

You're not trying to outshoot your opponent, you're trying to win, and with Orks you'll probably being using a mixture of shooting and assaults to get there. Only a blind idiot believes Orks are solely meant for assaults or only good if they try to outshoot their opponents.

 frgsinwntr wrote:
here is why the codex is bad...

you want to assault people....
+ if your ride blows up, half of your squad dies in the explosion... you fail your moral check half of the time for pinning... then take more hits form mob rule... then take more hits half the time when you fail moral... and you are left with NOTHING...
+trukks die to everything

Exploding trukks are an issue. They do not die to everything. They are likely to get wrecked pretty easily with a little bit of attention, but that is true of most AV10 - AV11 models. Most of the time you will get a nice 24" move out of them to get into position. Next turn you can jump out and assault pretty much anything on the table. And again, with the weapons fired at them, the trukk will most likely wreck, not explode.

+battlewagons went up in cost and deffrollas are only on Death or glory attempts....

Deff rolls are pretty much a no take, though at only what, 5 points more than the reinforced rams (a must take) it maybe is okay,

If you want to spam 18 killa kans...
+you just spent 900pts on 3 units that will amost certainly auto lose vs anything with range over 24 inches…

Auto lose to what exactly? Few armies can put models on the table to stop 36 AV11 models who will likely have KFF coverage and boyz backing them up.

want to run biker nobs or bikes?
+tau ignore cover, and have lots of AP 4... you lose models so fast you can't play an actual game... and you can't be troops anymore to spam them to make up for it….

They can, they don't automatically.

+loss of invul makes nob bikers pop like crazy….

How, railguns? Demolisher cannons? How many S10 shooting attacks are hitting tables where you are?

+need to use HQ slots for KFF meks on bikes or Docs on bikes for FNP....

You need a pain boy. KFF in nob biker units are a requirement, but they always were.

Bikes are crazy cheap now, and come with Jink saves that get even better if you Boost, right?

Wonder how well a couple of 6-Ork groups would work as "bullet catchers" up front of the line? They're fast enough to roll forward and then turn sideways, creating a foot wide "shield" in front of the ladz. They go a full foot, letting the tide run up behind them after a normal move, giving you the round of safety that you gotta have before you can start considering a turn 2 charge of the footsloggers. Not terribly safe against Tau, but then what Orky thing is? The Ladz can punch through soon after and get stuck in for some right propa' choppin'.

 Jidmah wrote:
Squad size is 3-10 just like before.
One Meganob now is a Boss Nob, which is basically the same as a regular Meganob, except for character status, so have fun challenging stuff with a 2+ armor PK.

Hm, with 10 being the breaking point for Ork units, you're basically going to HAVE to add another character to a unit of Meganobz if you want Mob Rule to be useful. Otherwise a single casaulty is pretty devastating. Especially so if your Boss Nob eats it in a challenge or something.

Might still be better off with small suicide MANZ units. The new models are pretty sweet.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 frgsinwntr wrote:
here is why the codex is bad...

you want to assault people....
+ if your ride blows up, half of your squad dies in the explosion... you fail your moral check half of the time for pinning... then take more hits form mob rule... then take more hits half the time when you fail moral... and you are left with NOTHING...
+trukks die to everything
+battlewagons went up in cost and deffrollas are only on Death or glory attempts....

If you want to spam 18 killa kans...
+you just spent 900pts on 3 units that will amost certainly auto lose vs anything with range over 24 inches...

if you want to outshoot your opponent...
+you are playing orks... why are you trying to outshoot your opponent?

You're completely talking out of your posterior, mate, with handwave dismissal statements. Sure, you lose that Trukk, you may have lost the squad too, but they're probably barely over 125~ points. If you mass Trukk Boys, some of them have to reach the enemy, and when they do, you rip them to pieces if they're light infantry, power klaw them to death if they're heavier, and generally cause chaos. You support this effort with your other support elements that neutralise the Trukk killers and remove the hard hitters. This has always been the Ork philosophy, you take a few fair casualties but when you get in the optimum zone you wreck your opponent . You don't take a 100 Ork horde and expect all of them to reach the enemy, just under 2/3rds will actually make it there.

I honestly can't tell you how to make the ideal Trukk list that makes it worthwhile, but I'm willing to bet there's a way to do it, and the first step is not saying "hurr durr won't ever work"

Battlewagons went up in cost, but they're still a good unit and a good transport.

Granted, Killa Kans are going to have issues dealing with the super-S7 dealers, so going mass Kans means you need a strategy to deal with those S7 dealers simultaneously. That's why you either take something else instead of just Kans in HS, or take S7-dealer-killers from other FOC sections.

You're not trying to outshoot your opponent, you're trying to win, and with Orks you'll probably being using a mixture of shooting and assaults to get there. Only a blind idiot believes Orks are solely meant for assaults or only good if they try to outshoot their opponents.

12 boyz in a trukk with nob with pole and klaw is 142, no other weapon upgrades. You can have 6 of these. Lets assume you DON'T get first turn. your opponent has 4 wave serpents and 2 wraith knights... you probably lost 3 trukks. Turn 2... you just lost 3 more and half of your army... gg? go for beer and pretzels?

if you do get first turn... you get out and assualt maybe one serpent? (assume your opponent realizes they have 60 inch range and will keep their distance)

my point is... the orks are not ANY better than they were last codex... and are actually WORSE off then they were.

6 trukks isn't even half an army. And considering how far you can move them and still assault, you'll be getting into assault.

 frgsinwntr wrote:
here is why the codex is bad...

you want to assault people....
+ if your ride blows up, half of your squad dies in the explosion... you fail your moral check half of the time for pinning... then take more hits form mob rule... then take more hits half the time when you fail moral... and you are left with NOTHING...
+trukks die to everything
+battlewagons went up in cost and deffrollas are only on Death or glory attempts....

If you want to spam 18 killa kans...
+you just spent 900pts on 3 units that will amost certainly auto lose vs anything with range over 24 inches...

if you want to outshoot your opponent...
+you are playing orks... why are you trying to outshoot your opponent?

want to run biker nobs or bikes?
+tau ignore cover, and have lots of AP 4... you lose models so fast you can't play an actual game... and you can't be troops anymore to spam them to make up for it....
+loss of invul makes nob bikers pop like crazy....
+need to use HQ slots for KFF meks on bikes or Docs on bikes for FNP....

Here is why the codex is bad:
- If your opponent rolls really good, and you roll really bad, you might actually lose a whole unit
- Trukks only got 5 points cheaper, and had no upgrade to AV13
- A piece of equipment that was unusable due to 7th edition rules got even more unusable, even though many new options can now fulfill this rule
- 18 AV11 walkers which are the exact same price as before will do nothing if they somehow all get killed before they reach the middle of the table in turn two
- Because orks shoot worse than tau and eldar
- Because every weapon is AP4, ignores cover and causes instant death to T5 models
- Because a 5++ was totally the only reasons nob bikers were playable at all, since, as above, all weapons are S10, AP4 and ignore cover
- Because you need to use a different mandatory HQ for nob bikers

Now, you heard it! Don't buy the codex, three of the units in it have been nerfed and one wasn't buffed!

eehhmm... quick question..

only warbosses and bigmeks can take relics?

People should stop thinking in terms of one CAD.

This is not going to last; with every new codex it's going more obvious.

I'd probably go for the Warband detchment if I were running trukk boyz anyway.

RedNoak wrote:
eehhmm... quick question..

only warbosses and bigmeks can take relics?

Correct. They get the relic on top of everything else they have, nothing is traded.

 streamdragon wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Squad size is 3-10 just like before.
One Meganob now is a Boss Nob, which is basically the same as a regular Meganob, except for character status, so have fun challenging stuff with a 2+ armor PK.

Hm, with 10 being the breaking point for Ork units, you're basically going to HAVE to add another character to a unit of Meganobz if you want Mob Rule to be useful. Otherwise a single casaulty is pretty devastating. Especially so if your Boss Nob eats it in a challenge or something.

Might still be better off with small suicide MANZ units. The new models are pretty sweet.

A unit of nobz with a character and boss pole.will pass their leadership tests as well as last time or by a statistically similar amount. Regular test plus the chance to roll a 1-3 twice before needing to run.

NamelessBard wrote:
People should stop thinking in terms of one CAD.

This is not going to last; with every new codex it's going more obvious.

I'd probably go for the Warband detchment if I were running trukk boyz anyway.

This.

The only real limitation I see with the new codex is who can secure objectives (boyz and gretchen at present). We just need something that allows nobs, manz or bikers to secure objectives and we're back to the old codex (with a few other buffs and nerfs). No big deal, its just that the new edition has changed how we build army lists.

According to someone at my FLGS, the Stompa has a Leadership of 4, and Toughness of 13, and Save of 12 (?) printed for it in the Codex (looks like the digital version). Unless I missed something, Toughness 13 doesn't exist.

Image:

NamelessBard wrote:
People should stop thinking in terms of one CAD.

This is not going to last; with every new codex it's going more obvious.

I'd probably go for the Warband detchment if I were running trukk boyz anyway.

I think some folks are still on the fence about multiple CADs, especially since some major tournaments have come down on the side of not taking multiples. In that sense, fitting an army into a battle-forged list is still important to many players I think. Multiple CAD kind of defeats any purpose to Unbound or alternate FOCs like the new Ork one.

NamelessBard wrote:
People should stop thinking in terms of one CAD.

This is not going to last; with every new codex it's going more obvious.

I'd probably go for the Warband detchment if I were running trukk boyz anyway.

A lot of people play single CAD, so it is still important to have a functioning army within the normal FOC restrictions
.

Considering that MANz were usually LD7 before and had no way of getting a boss pole outside of an IC, they've got a huge buff from mob rule.

NamelessBard wrote:
People should stop thinking in terms of one CAD.

This is not going to last; with every new codex it's going more obvious.

I'd probably go for the Warband detchment if I were running trukk boyz anyway.

Yes, I agree. Only at very low points would it be a single CAD, less than a thousand.

Orks must be multi FOC to play now. If any one refuses to let you use more than one, clobber 'em!!!!

TableTopJosh wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
People should stop thinking in terms of one CAD.

This is not going to last; with every new codex it's going more obvious.

I'd probably go for the Warband detchment if I were running trukk boyz anyway.

A lot of people play single CAD, so it is still important to have a functioning army within the normal FOC restrictions
.

GW seems to think so as well. So they included an Ork Horde Detachment in the codex, which allows you to field as little as 18 trukks in a single detachment.

WayneTheGame wrote:
According to someone at my FLGS, the Stompa has a Leadership of 4, and Toughness of 13, and Save of 12 (?) printed for it in the Codex (looks like the digital version). Unless I missed something, Toughness 13 doesn't exist.

Those are the armor values. They pasted the Vehicle stats into a normal stat block.

TableTopJosh wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
People should stop thinking in terms of one CAD.

This is not going to last; with every new codex it's going more obvious.

I'd probably go for the Warband detchment if I were running trukk boyz anyway.

A lot of people play single CAD, so it is still important to have a functioning army within the normal FOC restrictions
.

Maybe people need to reduce unnecessary restrictions?

Most people play at least the ability to use more than a single FOC

 pretre wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
According to someone at my FLGS, the Stompa has a Leadership of 4, and Toughness of 13, and Save of 12 (?) printed for it in the Codex (looks like the digital version). Unless I missed something, Toughness 13 doesn't exist.

Those are the armor values. They pasted the Vehicle stats into a normal stat block.

So we've established they don't proofread

About Deffkoptas: they are indeed NLA on the US site, and they are not *at all* on the UK website !

WayneTheGame wrote:

 pretre wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
According to someone at my FLGS, the Stompa has a Leadership of 4, and Toughness of 13, and Save of 12 (?) printed for it in the Codex (looks like the digital version). Unless I missed something, Toughness 13 doesn't exist.

Those are the armor values. They pasted the Vehicle stats into a normal stat block.

So we've established they don't proofread

Stompa looks fine in digital version though.

 Jidmah wrote:
Considering that MANz were usually LD7 before and had no way of getting a boss pole outside of an IC, they've got a huge buff from mob rule.

Dunno that I would call it "huge", given that a single casualty suddenly eliminates half the Mob Rule chart, but yes a buff. Really, it's more that the unit itself now has a character by default, and can access a bosspole on its own. Without those, the unit would still be pretty boned.

Which is why I said if you want full squads, you should probably add a character (though they sadly wont fit in a BW then ). Otherwise you are better off with small units that will generally be dead before LD checks come into play.