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Hi all,

My local Games workshop is doing an escalation league starting in april. I want to play, but i'm new to the fantasy side of things. I want to play skaven and thought about picking up the island of blood set.
I was hoping some experienced skaven players could maybe give me some 500pt army lists with the contents of the box?

would be very grateful!

Skaven are pretty great at low points costs because they can bring ALOT of models for very cheap.
For 500 points the Island of Blood set is a perfect start for a Skaven army and most people buy 2, 3 or even 4+ sets so you might want to pick up 2 sets (and sell the other haf to a high elf player).

A basic 500 point list would probably be:
Heroes
Chieftain
- BSB, Halberd, talisman of preservation 117

Core
35 Slaves
- Musician 72
29 Stormvermin
- Musician, standard 218

Rare
Warp Lightning Cannon 90

Total:
497 Points

OR
Heroes
Chieftain
- BSB, Halberd, talisman of preservation 117

Core
35 Slaves
- Musician 72
30 Clanrats
- Musician, standard, warpfire thrower 202

Special
6 Gutter Runners
- Poisoned attacks, slings 108

Total:
499 Points

List 1 has Stormvermin which are one of the best units we have for large blocks (Plague monks are also good but aren't as good). The first list will give you lots of killing potential with the Stormvermin while the slaves will tarpit any other units.
The warplightning cannon is good depending on the army you play because at 500 points there might not be many models on the table so might be not the best choice.

Second list I put clanrats because they are cheaper but you can use the Warpfire thrower which is arguably the best weapon team and can cause some devastation. I also swapped out the warp lightning cannon for the gutter runners because they work really well for going after units in the backfield.

That is just 2 quick lists so they aren't perfect but should be a good start.

 chiefbigredman wrote:
Skaven are pretty great at low points costs because they can bring ALOT of models for very cheap.
For 500 points the Island of Blood set is a perfect start for a Skaven army and most people buy 2, 3 or even 4+ sets so you might want to pick up 2 sets (and sell the other haf to a high elf player).

A basic 500 point list would probably be:
Heroes
Chieftain
- BSB, Halberd, talisman of preservation 117

Core
35 Slaves
- Musician 72
29 Stormvermin
- Musician, standard 218

Rare
Warp Lightning Cannon 90

Total:
497 Points

OR
Heroes
Chieftain
- BSB, Halberd, talisman of preservation 117

Core
35 Slaves
- Musician 72
30 Clanrats
- Musician, standard, warpfire thrower 202

Special
6 Gutter Runners
- Poisoned attacks, slings 108

Total:
499 Points

List 1 has Stormvermin which are one of the best units we have for large blocks (Plague monks are also good but aren't as good). The first list will give you lots of killing potential with the Stormvermin while the slaves will tarpit any other units.
The warplightning cannon is good depending on the army you play because at 500 points there might not be many models on the table so might be not the best choice.

Second list I put clanrats because they are cheaper but you can use the Warpfire thrower which is arguably the best weapon team and can cause some devastation. I also swapped out the warp lightning cannon for the gutter runners because they work really well for going after units in the backfield.

That is just 2 quick lists so they aren't perfect but should be a good start.

Alright great, and i can make these with just the contents of 1 island of blood set? I might pick an extra set when we escalate to a new point range

Just a quick note that a BSB cant be your general, so if you want to keep the bsb grab a wizard or engineer to be your general!

 Syndrom wrote:
Alright great, and i can make these with just the contents of 1 island of blood set? I might pick an extra set when we escalate to a new point range

Neither of those lists can be made with one Island of Blood Set.

If your looking to play 500 points from the set you would basically take everything in it.

For the first list you would need IoB set (convert the chieftain into a BsB) use the warplock as your general, 25 more rats than come in the set, and a warp lighting Cannon

For the 2nd List you would need 25 more rats (a lot of skaven players play the clanrats from IoB as slaves and clanrats as long as you differentiate somehow (spears no spears)) and 6 gutter runners (alot of people use nightrunners as these as the gutter runners are in sets of 2 and expensive but the nightrunners are in a box of 20)


In general your going to need to add rats (clanrats, slaves) to the Island of Blood Set, Convert/Add a couple characters (most higher point games you will take a grey seer), and than expand to special/rare units as to your tastes, both non core suggested ( warp lighting cannon, gutter runners) are staples of most skaven lists so buying them to play in 500 you will use them the whole way through.

 chiefbigredman wrote:

For 500 points the Island of Blood set is a perfect start for a Skaven army and most people buy 2, 3 or even 4+ sets so you might want to pick up 2 sets (and sell the other haf to a high elf player).

Definitley get at least another box, that way you can separate out the skaven as half without armor plates on as slaves and the other half as clanrats with some armor.

 chiefbigredman wrote:

A basic 500 point list would probably be:
Heroes
Chieftain
- BSB, Halberd, talisman of preservation 117


Core
35 Slaves
- Musician 72
29 Stormvermin
- Musician, standard 218

Rare
Warp Lightning Cannon 90

Total:
497 Points

When I did my escalation league for skaven I did something similar to this.

Heroes
Chieftain: Bsb, enchanted shield
Warlock Engineer - Doom Rocket
Core:
40 clanrats, poisoned wind mortar, full command (I prefer the PWM to the WFT)
20 Skavenslaves (as a speedbump)

Rare:
Warp Lightning Cannon
Total: 500

At 1k points, look at adding in a greyseer for some hilarity, and definitley consider throwing in doomrockets when you can.
Realistically, you will not be able to make a great list out of the box. I consider Warp Lightning Cannons to be a must in skaven lists, even though they blow up all the time for me.

Oh damn I forgot about the BSB thing, I would just add a warlock engineer without any upgrades then since it is so low points wise.

Pick up 2 Island of blood boxes to start that will give you 80 clanrats, 4 weapon teams, 2 BSB/warlords, 2 engineers and some ogres and packmasters which gives you the basics of most Skaven lists.

@angryface
I like that list but I think a unit of 20 slaves is just useless since it will probably get torn apart in 1 turn maybe 2. If you want speedbumps you should just use the Giant Rats (although they don't count towards core value).

To the OP I think taking some Stormvermin at this point level will give you a nice tough hammer unit which some armies won't be able to afford at this point.
Be warned about bringing the weapon teams though. They are very good WHEN they work (PWM and WFT only). They are also a big points sink at this point in the game so be cautious about that.
As for PWM over WFT I think both are good but you have to realize that at 500 points if you don't get the Poisoned Wind Mortar on target it most likely will just land somewhere where there are no models. The warpfire thrower is far more accurate and can take out a lot of guys so I would recommend that at this point level.

 chiefbigredman wrote:

@angryface
I like that list but I think a unit of 20 slaves is just useless since it will probably get torn apart in 1 turn maybe 2. If you want speedbumps you should just use the Giant Rats (although they don't count towards core value).

Giant rats cost 23, and do not count towards core, (although in this situation it does not matter), the block of 20 costs 40, might survive longer, is slightly slower, and when it does blow up, can cause a few more wounds. So, you could go giant rats wat and have 17 points to spare.

So if i get all of this right, i would atleast need a second box so i can split my rats in 40 slaves and 40 clanrats? (as i understand the packs of clanrats are split in half, 20 with armor and 20 without?)

are slaves that essential to an skaven army then? I find the subject of skaven slaves a bit confusing as i can't find any separate models of them? Kinda confusing on what a slave then is, a rat without armor?

Also i found this link where someone builds a 700+ pt army without slaves and just the content of 1 box?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/08/wfb-tactics-island-of-blood-and.html


Hmm i thought i could just swing it with one box now and then add stuff later when the league goes on, but it seems i really need another skaven half. Might just pick one up from ebay then i guess. And find someone to take the high elves of my hand as i have no interest in that army. I really like the starter sets cause i get the rulebook and dices and stuff (i don't have any fantasy rulebook yet)

Anyway thanks for the tips this far!

Well I am not 100% sure if the Island of Blood set is split 50/50 armour and no armour but it is split 50/50 hand weapons/spears.

Just paint up the slaves in another colour (some people paint over the armour in the same cloth colour)
Slaves and clanrats come in the same box from GW and all you really have to do is either paint them slightly differently are sort them in the more heavily armoured ones vs cloth.

The idea of big blocks of slaves (40+) is to act as a big tarpit for enemy units to hit and then have to grind through to kill...the slaves are going to die that is just the way it is but 40 clanrats for 82 points (with musician) is ultra cheap. You just get a few big blocks of them and then your enemy will go for them (r forced to go for them) and then you can flank charge with your hammer units (Plague monks or stormvermin).

That list uses both the weapon teams and the rat ogres. The rat ogres are not worth it they cost a lot of points and have no save of any kind. Skaven players rarely if ever use them and only use them in large blocks if they do.
2 weapon teams cost a total of 135 points so use them sparingly because at low point games they take up a large portion of your army. You also have to be careful with them because they can get sniped out fairly easily and only have 1 wound and if they move outside of 3 inches of their parent unit they loose their 4+ ward save.

You are going to need 2 island of blood sets regardless because it is the most cost effective way to bulk up on clanrats, weapon teams and heroes (you can just do some light conversions on them). I am sure if you go down to your FLGS there will be someone you can talk to about taking the High Elves half.

 chiefbigredman wrote:
Well I am not 100% sure if the Island of Blood set is split 50/50 armour and no armour but it is split 50/50 hand weapons/spears.

Just paint up the slaves in another colour (some people paint over the armour in the same cloth colour)
Slaves and clanrats come in the same box from GW and all you really have to do is either paint them slightly differently are sort them in the more heavily armoured ones vs cloth.

The idea of big blocks of slaves (40+) is to act as a big tarpit for enemy units to hit and then have to grind through to kill...the slaves are going to die that is just the way it is but 40 clanrats for 82 points (with musician) is ultra cheap. You just get a few big blocks of them and then your enemy will go for them (r forced to go for them) and then you can flank charge with your hammer units (Plague monks or stormvermin).

That list uses both the weapon teams and the rat ogres. The rat ogres are not worth it they cost a lot of points and have no save of any kind. Skaven players rarely if ever use them and only use them in large blocks if they do.
2 weapon teams cost a total of 135 points so use them sparingly because at low point games they take up a large portion of your army. You also have to be careful with them because they can get sniped out fairly easily and only have 1 wound and if they move outside of 3 inches of their parent unit they loose their 4+ ward save.

You are going to need 2 island of blood sets regardless because it is the most cost effective way to bulk up on clanrats, weapon teams and heroes (you can just do some light conversions on them). I am sure if you go down to your FLGS there will be someone you can talk to about taking the High Elves half.

thanks for all the info. I like the idea of a horde army with lots of meatshield. So skaven souns perfect.

Anyway i spotted a seller with two skaven halves for sale. So i'm just gonna pick those up along with a starter set. That way i'll have 120 clanrats to work with. and from there i'll add some plague monks or stormvermin. that should get me started nicely i think.

Ya that will be good! Just pick up a few cannons and maybe an Abomination for later games and some night runners to use as gutter runners and you will be set

ok another quick question, does it matter what weapons slaves have?

Just use the basic hand weapons and DO NOT upgrade them with anything other than a musician. The idea is for them to just hold units not to actually kill them.

 chiefbigredman wrote:
Skaven are pretty great at low points costs because they can bring ALOT of models for very cheap.
For 500 points the Island of Blood set is a perfect start for a Skaven army and most people buy 2, 3 or even 4+ sets so you might want to pick up 2 sets (and sell the other haf to a high elf player).

A basic 500 point list would probably be:
Heroes
Chieftain
- BSB, Halberd, talisman of preservation 117

Core
35 Slaves
- Musician 72
29 Stormvermin
- Musician, standard 218

Rare
Warp Lightning Cannon 90

Total:
497 Points



List 1 has Stormvermin which are one of the best units we have for large blocks (Plague monks are also good but aren't as good). The first list will give you lots of killing potential with the Stormvermin while the slaves will tarpit any other units.
The warplightning cannon is good depending on the army you play because at 500 points there might not be many models on the table so might be not the best choice.

.

Quick question about the first list.

Do the stormvermin act as a bunker for my chieftain? Or am i missing something? (i'll be using a warlock engineer as my lord)

Ya but you can attack with them, 30 of them is pretty strong in a 500 point list.
When you upgrade you might want to add a unit of 30 clanrats as your true bunker unit for your lords. Then keep stormvermin as a hammer.

 chiefbigredman wrote:
Ya but you can attack with them, 30 of them is pretty strong in a 500 point list.
When you upgrade you might want to add a unit of 30 clanrats as your true bunker unit for your lords. Then keep stormvermin as a hammer.

So i just put my chieftain bsb in my storm vermin unit and move them as one and attack.

and then later i put him in a 30 strong clanrat unit and keep him out of direct combat?

the whole "bunker" concept is new to me. Is it absolutely required to do in WHFB?

Sorry for all these noob questions, i'm just trying to get a hold on the basics.

Warlock engineer - 15

29 clanrats: full command - 136
30 Stormvermin: full command - 235
5 giant rats: packmaster - 23

Warp lightning cannon - 90


499 points for that one.


I get that people love slaves, but in lower points games they really are nowhere near as good.
Units are too small so speed bumps only.
Also, you dont have the points for any unit to act as a hammer once you pin them in combat.

I'd just go with a cheap and cheerful hero since magic will rarely be an issue at low points.
Then pour the rest of the points into 2 solid blocks and a cannon.

Although, you may find it better to swap the cannon and clanrats for another 29 stormvermin with command.

Just a shame that a doomwheel cant be used under 600 points, as they really do work well in games under 1,000 points.





Edit: Certain characters really dont want to be in combat.
For skaven, this is most of them.
A bunker is simply a huge unit you can hide those models in out of harms way.
You dont want them in a hammer unit though as you want to avoid combat with them.
Units like stormvermin need to be in combat, so make a poor bunker unless its for a character than wants to be in combat.

Jackal has some good points and he is correct about stormvermin being a bad bunker (unless you want an expensive points sink which nobody wants ) He is right about slaves not being as good in low point games but they can prove to be very useful against low model count armies though.

His list is solid although not a fan of a naked engineer.
I would upgrade the engineer to lvl 1 (bringing him to 50 points) just hope you roll good or just take warp lightning if you don't. Skorch would be decent to have and same with death frenzy which adds +2 attacks per model which could be deadly in this low points so if you put that on the stormvermin they would do really well.

Drop the cannon and add in a warpfire thrower and take away a few clanrats. Never take full command, just a banner and a musician. The unit champion adds 1 extra attack which is hardly ever worth it. That is just an opinion but I feel like unit champs are a waste of points for skaven.

Cannon is great but at low points levels it will be hard to hit units (if it is a low model count army) and warpfire thrower will get into the enemies face and burn everything. You could use a rattling gun aswell they don't blow up as much as the other weapon teams which might be a good option to save your investment.

Here are my two Warptokens:

- units of 20 Slaves make remarkably good chaff. They don't cause Panic in other units, require a distressing amount of effort to get rid of, compared to their points, and can be deployed in a block to take a charge or as a line to screen your other units from missile fire.
...but I'll agree that, at 500pts, it's not necessary.

- a lvl1 Warlock Engineer costs 65pts. If I were to give him anything, it would be the Doomrocket. For 30pts, it's still not a big investment, but it could single-handedly give you a win.

- Champions are usually awesome. For 4/8/10pts, my Paw/Claw/Fangleader can challenge a Vampire Blender Lord, so I lose one model instead of a dozen.
And let's not forget that anything remotely killy isn't going to challenge your squishy general. They're just going to direct attacks against him and kill him regular-style.

- the Warpfire Thrower might bring a more useful type of attack to 500pts, but for 20pts more, you get 2 more Wounds and a massively increased range. The Cannon might not do as much damage/miss more, but it will be able to make a lot more shots.

thanks for all the input.

Let me give a rundown of the models i have atm.

120 clanrats/slaves

40 stormvermin

1 warplightning cannon

20 nighrunners

1 Warpfire Thrower team

3 Poisoned Wind Mortar teams

1 warlord

1 engineer

2 ogre rats

1 master moulder

So atm i kind of have to work within those confines.

For 500pts? I'd take those models and do something like this:

- Warlock Engineer + Doomrocket + Ironcurse Icon (50)

- 28 Clanrats + shields + full command (146)
- 26 Stormvermin + musician + standard (197)

- 2 Rat Ogres + packmaster (88)

I know a lot of people will boo and hiss Rat Ogres, but at 500pts, bringing 8 S5 attacks +2 stomps to the table is a serious threat, especially at I4.
You could put in a Cannon instead, but I'd prefer something less Eggs-In-One-Basket-y.

played my first fantasy game ever today with this list:

Warlock engineer

Level 1 wizard

Doomrocket

80 pts

28 clanrats

+ warpfire thrower team

musician
Standard bearer

194 points

30 Stormvermin

Musician

Standard bearer

225 points

499 pts total.

against a VC army with lots of zombies. We didn't get to finish because the GW had to close :( But otherwise it went very good, both took some losses, he took out my clanrats while they were fleeing so that sucked. I also panicked when i found out i couldn't hurt his wraith with normal weapons and no units had magic weapons, but my engineer took him out with a warplightning blast so that went better than expected.

I completely messed up on the use of my warpfire cannon though, but that's a lesson learned And i wasted my doomrocket on killing 5 zombies wich he just resummoned on his next turn.

Overall i need to learn alot more about the rules and stuff, but i had fun!

Bigred - Unit champs have a very good use, more so in the bunker unit.
Use them to hand out challenges to characters.
At this points level, they will still die but there wont be alot of overkill and you will have more ranks + bonus's than most units you fight.
In theory, against a unit of chaos warriors you could win quite easily by throwing away the unit champ in a challenge.
Also keeps you going another turn incase you have to play against something like ogres.

If they reject the challenge, less attacks against you so a nice result.



Edit: On another note, ever thought about plague monks with a plague priest?
Yes, its high points, but bunker him with the monks and they will tear apart alot of units.
Same price as vermin too with the added extra of 2 HW's and frenzy.
Just need a rat dart to control them a bit

 Jackal wrote:
Bigred - Unit champs have a very good use, more so in the bunker unit.
Use them to hand out challenges to characters.
At this points level, they will still die but there wont be alot of overkill and you will have more ranks + bonus's than most units you fight.
In theory, against a unit of chaos warriors you could win quite easily by throwing away the unit champ in a challenge.
Also keeps you going another turn incase you have to play against something like ogres.

If they reject the challenge, less attacks against you so a nice result.



Edit: On another note, ever thought about plague monks with a plague priest?
Yes, its high points, but bunker him with the monks and they will tear apart alot of units.
Same price as vermin too with the added extra of 2 HW's and frenzy.
Just need a rat dart to control them a bit

I'll need to look into the plague rats, what's a rat dart though? HW? :p (i'm real new )

I used my engineer as a "lone" unit and kept him in the back using magic, worked out pretty great this game.

A "rat dart" is a minimum sized unit of Giant Rats: 5 and a Packmaster. Deployed 2 wide and 3 deep, that's 23pts for 6 attacks, 6 wounds, and M6. A fantastic way to block charges and the like.
Probably in the top 5 best chaff in the game.

Against Vampires, there's not much risk having the Warlock on his own. Just be careful of anyone with shooting. So...any army besides Vampires.

also i went with 3 ranks for my stormvermin and clanrats. Is that a good? I didn't really know ranks mattered that much.

Heh. They don't, for units that are good at fighting. But Steadfast is essential to any army with a lot of crap models. You're going to be losing combat, so you want to make sure you don't have to modify your Leadership.
And Skaven get their rank bonus to their Leadership, so that's all the more reason to rank up.

...except against Zombies. You should probably be able to beat them reliably, ranks or no.