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Hi there

I'm converting up a fancy Jump Pack Lord for my Slaanesh Chaos Army, but not sure which weapons to give him. I'm planning on him either roaming around as a solo threat, or accompanying a big squad of Slaanesh Raptors with the Icon of Excess for FnP.

Currently, this looks good..

Slaanesh Lord [80]
- Lightning Claw [15]
- Melta Bombs [5]
- Aura of Dark Glory [15]
- Jump Pack [15]

Total - 130 pts

Is something like the Murder Sword a better choice? Or just a regular power sword? If he's bouncing around, maybe a Dimensional Key?

Dunno

You might want to replace the Aura of Dark Glory with SoC. I assume you want him to engage in a lot of fights, and once AP3 weapons come into play, 4++ is much better than 5++.

I suppose you want to keep him relatively cheap. In case you find some spare points to upgrade the Chaos Lord further, you might add another LC for +1 CC attack, or a PF for 10 pts. more (and get rid of the Melta Bomb?) in order to grant him not only +1 attack, but also a S8 AP2 weapon that will insta-kill anything T4.

Edited because I'm blind.

Actually he included it. A Lord is 65 base and MoS costs 15, bringing him up to 80.

The Black Mace is actually quite effective. Yes, it's still only AP4 but you're swinging @ I6 and generating ALOT of wounds and it only takes one to get through.

Considering how many units are running with a 3++ or better Inv save, the lack of AP isn't as big as it appears.

Well, what role do you want him for?

If what you want him to do is to blow away chaff, then taking a ++ save at all isn't necessary. Give him a burning brand or a black mace, or even just a pair of lightning claws, but keep in cheap.

If you want him to be a heavy hitter, then he's going to need to hit heavier than a lightning claw. This means the obligatory upgrades of a sigil of corruption, and a powerfist. Yes, powerfists throw away the I advantage, but it's going to be much better to attack with S8 Ap2 and hazard an invul save or two then it is to always be impotent against monstrous creatures or vehicles, and have no way to cause instant death. S4 Ap3 just won't cut it for a serious close combat unit. Now, if you want to make it so that his other weapon takes advantage of that +I, then sure, give him a power sword, or a chainaxe or a murder sword, but without serious punching power, you're just throwing a huge pile of points away on carrier costs.

 Ailaros wrote:
Well, what role do you want him for?

If what you want him to do is to blow away chaff, then taking a ++ save at all isn't necessary. Give him a burning brand or a black mace, or even just a pair of lightning claws, but keep in cheap.

If you want him to be a heavy hitter, then he's going to need to hit heavier than a lightning claw. This means the obligatory upgrades of a sigil of corruption, and a powerfist. Yes, powerfists throw away the I advantage, but it's going to be much better to attack with S8 Ap2 and hazard an invul save or two then it is to always be impotent against monstrous creatures or vehicles, and have no way to cause instant death. S4 Ap3 just won't cut it for a serious close combat unit. Now, if you want to make it so that his other weapon takes advantage of that +I, then sure, give him a power sword, or a chainaxe or a murder sword, but without serious punching power, you're just throwing a huge pile of points away on carrier costs.

I agree on most any Lord besides Slaanesh. Wasting that I6 is just brutal, I'd rather support my HQ with something else that is AP2. That's why I like the Black Mace, because you aren't as hung up on AP2 as with other builds.

Unfortunately a Slaanesh lord is by far the weakest of the 4 marked lords.

As stated previoiusly I would give him the Black Mace. A powerfist would be a pretty bad investment considering there are many instances where you won't be able to risk going at I1. Plus a CL can't really afford to be taking any hits in the first place.

 herpguy wrote:
Unfortunately a Slaanesh lord is by far the weakest of the 4 marked lords.

As stated previoiusly I would give him the Black Mace. A powerfist would be a pretty bad investment considering there are many instances where you won't be able to risk going at I1. Plus a CL can't really afford to be taking any hits in the first place.

But giving you access to Noise Marines as well as an outflanking mount has a lot of utility.

Yes very true, but unfortunately he is still rather weak.

The best bet in that case would be to probably run a Chaos lord with: bike, lightning claw, SoC, Burning brand, with a unit of 4-5 spawn.

If your willing to play Black Legion or Crimson Slauughter you could give him The Spineshiver Sword or The Blade of Relentless.

minigun wrote:I agree on most any Lord besides Slaanesh. Wasting that I6 is just brutal, I'd rather support my HQ with something else that is AP2. That's why I like the Black Mace, because you aren't as hung up on AP2 as with other builds.

Imagine for a moment that he isn't I6, but is instead I5. Would you give him a powerfist? Yes, even though it wastes I5, which is already faster than basically everything else. Meanwhile, let's say you had a chaos lord with a powerfist, and you could take +1I, but had to get rid of the powerfist, would you take it? Probably not.

That's because +1I isn't as good as x2S Ap2. Just focusing on the I is looking at one tree and missing the entire rest of the forest.

Because you've got to play your lord as a lord first, and a slaanesh lord second. Go ahead and throw on an extra weapon to use at the higher initiative, but it's not worth wasting the entire rest of the chaos lord to make one of its wargear upgrades a little better.

Unless you want a cheap light infantry killer, but, to be honest, the MoS is probably going to be a waste here as you're ALREADY swinging faster than everyone else in the first place. And, of course, slaanesh lists shouldn't exactly be lacking in anti-horde killing power, what with those ignores cover salvo bolters and BP+CCW's that they have. What slaanesh lists need in general is what chaos lords are good for - tanking those big scary things that chainswords can't handle. To do that, though, you've more or less got to have a powerfist.

Too bad they don't have blissgivers anymore...

I think the point really is, in that case why bother paying for a Slaanesh lord in the first place. Literally, aside from unlocking troop Noise Marines (which admittedly justifies doing so alone), the only thing you're getting from a Slaanesh lord over any other lords is the extra initiative. If you don't care about the I, than get a different lord.

Granted, I agree that the thing to do would be to get a P. Fist and a LC (optimal Lord build imo), but if you're trying build a budget lord and had to choose only one weapon, I'd go for LC over P. Fist on a Slaanesh lord.

I'd take the other side of that. If you're going to take a slaanesh lord anyways, you might as well kit him as best you can. Giving him not a powerfist is overall worse, despite getting to use better I. Yeah, if the point is to make the strongest lord, then leave MoS behind, but, as you note, there are other reasons to take a MoS lord other than the +1I.

Also, I'd note that odds are going to be good that the MoS lord will be in an MoS squad, which means that powerfist lord is getting FNP. A model with FNP and a ++ is a superb place for a powerfist.

I go for sigil, jump pack, meltabombs a power fist and lightning claw. Not too expensive and can deal with most things. also handy for extending the assault reach of other units.

Have you considered Spineshiver, if you're Black Legion?

Cheap Daemon Weapon for lots of attacks and even higher I that allows you to strike before even most Eldar.

Shame 'bout AP3 tho.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I guess I'm not looking to build the uber-super-killy-lord of doom. I'm looking for a decent cc character who can hold his own against most other characters. If he comes up against super powerful monsters then that's what massed noise marine fire is for.

Allaros, you're right, he'll most probably be in a unit of slaanesh raptors with FNP.

So it seems all the options add up to around the same

Spineshiver - 30pts, re roll hits, many attacks, ap3, i7
Twin LC - 30pts, +1A, re roll wounds, ap3, i6
LC & PF - 35pts (no meltabombs), as above with option of ap1 i1
Black mace - 45pts many attacks, weird Killy rules.

Basically, it looks like if you're going to spend that many points on weaponry, the LC PF combo is the most flexible for the points. I guess I could magnetise the other arm...

The other ting we haven't considered is that he'll probably be in a squad with a Raptor Champion - what is the best thing to give him to complement? If the raptor champion has a PF, there's less need for the Lord to have one?

A character killer, then? All right.

The first thing, once again, is to consider how many characters you're going to be coming up against with an Sv2+. Certainly some of the beatiest characters like abaddon will, but there are also beaty characters who don't (leleith, kharn, etc.), and then, of course, most characters are mere sergeants, who likely have crummy armor. Also, a lot of the beatiest characters have EW on them as well.

As such, for this specific role, your gut instinct of a murder sword might well be best. You wont' be good against monstrous creatures or vehicles or terminator squads, but if you don't want the lord to be around for that, then it doesn't matter. Some characters are Sv2+, but what's the odds your opponent is going to be fielding multiple Sv2+ beatsticks? Probably pretty low. Cast murder on that one, and then fly around and assassinate everyone else. Also, I'd highly recommend a plasma pistol here, as not only will it give you an extra attack for the sword, but it will allow you to play the character assassin in the shooting phase as well.

How about this for a setup?

Lord - MoS, jump pack, plasma pistol, murder sword, meltabombs

For 150 points. You'll notice that he still has only Sv3+ and no ++ save, but against the kinds of targets you're talking about being good against, you likely won't need armor - your +I and murder sword should prevent the lord from taking damage. Meanwhile, against shooting attacks, he gets a 2+ LoS! anyways.

Are the crimson slaughter relics not a serious boon for slaaneshi lords? Acces to at initiative ap2 sword and 2+ iwnd armour sound potent! admittedly I don't have the codex so not sure if this is prohibitively expensive or has other gotchas..

I'd keep your raptor champion naked and use him as challenge bait so your lord can make with the killing. you don't want all that killy goodness tied up in a challenge with some chump character like a space marine sergeant. you have your own chump characters for that :p

*Edit*
Never Mind.

 varl wrote:
I'd keep your raptor champion naked and use him as challenge bait so your lord can make with the killing. you don't want all that killy goodness tied up in a challenge with some chump character like a space marine sergeant. you have your own chump characters for that :p

Well, or you give both of them nice weapons. That way whichever one winds up in a challenge, the other will be able to do more damage. There are times when you want your beatstick in a challenge and times when you don't, and it's nice to know that you still have a decent chance of both winning a challenge and winning the round of combat at the same time thanks to too many wounds caused to the rest of the squad.

@Ailaros yeah, that's a fair point. I guess it's a question of how many points you want to tie up in that unit. a lightning claw on the champ wouldn't be a horrible investment if you couldn't find a better place for those points...

Since hitting at I isn't a giant issue give him a PF and the burning brand also AODG is pretty much equal to a termis invul save so no need to give him more then that

My lord is Slaanesh, and runs around on a bike with a pfist and the sigil.

He does surprisingly well, and is able to be utilized to kill things like wraith knights while being protected with a horde of cultists or marines.

Ignoring saves is key. AP2 all the way.

 rubicant99 wrote:
Are the crimson slaughter relics not a serious boon for slaaneshi lords? Acces to at initiative ap2 sword and 2+ iwnd armour sound potent! admittedly I don't have the codex so not sure if this is prohibitively expensive or has other gotchas..

This is quite good, but also pricey when you feature in the points you need to pay for an invulnerable save to seriously consider character killing. Many people also go for a bike and someone with an Icon for T5 and FNP which makes him a very tough customer but also quite expensive.

This build does have a good shot at killing Abaddon one on one when the blade is brought up to at least AP2 so at least you have a ferocious beat-stick who's hard to put down.

Feel free to pretend he's doomrider.