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2014/03/23 21:41:47
Subject: Iron Snakes - Creating Supplement Rules (Updated Apr 9/14)
Ever since I've discovered them, the Iron Snakes have captured both my imagination and my attention. They're a chapter who has a very different way of doing things from other chapters, with no companies or such, instead the different squads bid on missions.
I would love to create a set of dedicated supplement-style rules for these guys. Not only that, but I would build a Space Marine chapter around these rules as even from a standing-back point of view they seem such fun to play as. However, this is where I'm gonna need your guys help to brainstorm and balance these rules so that they're fun to play yet still balanced.
Brief Chapter Info 1) Chapter deploys in squads instead of battle companies. Typically there are no Independent Characters (or at least that's what it sounds like to me) and such heroes of sorts have their own squads.
2) Chapter has access to much larger number of power swords, power lances, and combat shields.
3) Army is very thematically tuned to ancient Greece, specifically the time of heroes in legend.
4) Army does not contain any Scouts and Scout Bike Squadrons. These new initiates are not allow to participate in battle until they've proven their skills against the squad they hope to join.
5) They are a founding of the Ultramarines.
6) Squads are primarily self-sustaining. Squads have their own Apothecaries and Squad Standards.
To Do List 1) Warlord Traits. I'd prefer something based on Greek Heroic Legends, much like the rest of the chapter is.
2) Chapter Relics need points costs and some tweaking. Like the rest of the chapter, the Chapter Relics should be based on Greek heroic legend and mythology. Some of them, such as the Spear of Kroneon, could be replaced entirely. They could also do with one more relic, though I'd be just as happy with five Relics.
3) Balancing and playtesting is desperately needed.
SPECIAL RULES
Spoiler:
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CHAPTER TACTICS (IRON SNAKES) The Iron Snakes are a founding chapter of the Ultramarines, but benefit from their own Chapter Tactics as described below. When using the rules in this document, you must use Chapter Tactics (Iron Snakes). Alternatively, you may use Chapter Tactics (Iron Snakes) with just the rules present in Codex: Space Marines, though if you do they will only benefit from Chapter Tactics (Iron Snakes) and not from the rest of the special rules found in this document.
PRIDE OF THE QUEST: Units in this detachment with a model within 3" of an objective gain the Adamantium Will special rule and may re-roll failed Feel No Pain saves. If the unit does not currently benefit from Feel No Pain, they will gain the Feel No Pain (6+) special rule instead, without any re-rolls.
PHALANX: Models in this detachment equipped with a combat shield or storm shield which are in base contact with at least two friendly models from the same detachment and unit also equipped with a combat shield or storm shield gain +1 Toughness. This bonus to Toughness does not effect the model's Instant Death threshold.
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HEROIC LEGACY All characters taken as HQ choices in this detachment (including Techmarines) lose the Independent Character special rule and must be attached to an eligible Iron Snakes unit in the same detachment. The unit chosen must be made note of on your army list. If a character selected as an HQ choice takes a unit of Honour Guard or a Command Squad, that character must be part of the attached squad and may not choose to instead be part of another squad. Each Iron Snakes squad may only contain a single Iron Snakes character selected as an HQ choice.
In addition, this detachment may not take Captains as HQ choices unless they also take a Command Squad. Instead, a member of any friendly squad in this detachment may be upgraded to a Captain for the appropriate points cost, minus the cost of the model the Captain is being upgraded from. Captains maintain their own attributes, wargear, special rules and options, and may not be upgraded from Sergeants, Veteran Sergeants, or models with a Nerthecium.
GLORY OF THE QUEST One member of each squad can be upgraded to have a Narthecium for 15 points, and a squad's Sergeant must always be upgraded to a Veteran Sergeant. Veteran Sergeants in this detachment have a squad banner at no additional cost. A squad banner functions exactly like a company standard. These upgrades do not effect the model's regular wargear or options, however a model with a Narthecium may not select options from the Special Weapons or Heavy Weapons lists.
In addition, any models which do not already have access to a combat shield may take one for 2 points. Any model may replace their Melee weapon, bolt pistol, or boltgun for a chainsword at no additional cost or a power lance or power sword for 15 points. Any Terminator Assault Squad members may replace both their lightning claws for a storm shield and power sword or power lance at no additional cost.
PROVING ONES WORTH A detachment using these special rules may not include any Servitors, Scout Squads, Scout Bike Squads, or Thunderfire Cannons.
RELICS OF THE QUEST A detachment using these special rules may not take Chapter Relics from Codex: Space Marines. Units with access to Chapter Relics may select from the Iron Snakes Chapter Relics present in these rules instead, at the appropriate points cost.
WARLORD TRAITS
Spoiler:
When generating his Warlord Traits, an Iron Snakes Warlord must either roll on one of the Warlord Traits tables in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook or roll on the table below.
1 - Legendary Strategist: The Warlord and his unit may choose to automatically pass or fail any Morale or Pinning tests they are called upon to take. In addition, you may seize the initiative on a roll of a 5 or a 6 and you may re-roll failed reserves rolls of 1.
2 - Monster Slayers: The Warlord and his unit gain the Monster Hunter special rule. In addition, the Warlord and his unit applies the effects of the Monster Hunter special rule to Beasts and units with the Daemon special rule as well as Monstrous Creatures.
3 - Finish What You Start: The Warlord and his unit gain the Counter-attack and Stubborn special rules so long as they are within 6" of an objective. If the Warlord and his unit are contesting an objective at the end of the game, roll a D6. On a roll of a 5 or 6 enemy units cannot contest the objective, even if they are a scoring or a denial unit.
4 - ???
5 - ???
6 - ???
CHAPTER RELICS
Spoiler:
Another work in progress. I have some ideas, but they have not been polished/balanced yet and currently do not have a points cost.
AEGIS OF THE SERPENT (55 Points) Gifted to the first Chapter Master of the Iron Snakes by Fabricator General, the Aegis of the Serpent has a unique energy field generator which prevents extensive amount of force being being applied to the bearer, making him impervious to blinding and concussive effects, its grim and daunting design striking fear into the hearts of his enemies. This shield has been passed on through the Iron Serpents who share a squad lineage with the first Chapter Master of the Iron Snakes.
The Aegis of the Serpent is a storm shield. In addition, the bearer of the Aegis of the Serpent has the Fear special rule and cannot have any of his attributes lowered.
ARMOUR OF ACHILLAN (40 Points) Said to be one of the finest suits of artificer armour crafted in Imperial history, it was gifted to battle brother Achillan after him and his squad single-handedly reclaimed an entire city from the cultist forces of Chaos. The armour is said to be completely impenitrable, however it is said that the armour comes with a curse that if the armour fails, the bearer could die, as Achillan himself found out after having his leg blown off at the joint and died from his wounds uncharacteristically for an astartes battle brother, to which such a wound would have normally been survivable.
The Armour of Achillan is a suit of artificer armour. The bearer's armour saves cannot be ignored, bypassed or negated, even by attacks which would normally ignore armour saves. However, whenever the bearer of the Armour of Achillan suffers an unsaved wound he must take an Initiative test. If the test is failed, the bearer is removed from the game as a casualty.
SWORD OF HARPEDON (55 Points) This blade was gifted to Captain Harpedon by the High Techpriest of a forgeworld the captain saved from an alien threat. It is said that while he carried the blade he was virtually unstoppable, taking all manor of blows which would have killed any other battle brother, but left Harpedon with only minor wounds. Harpedon was eventually felled by his enemies, his blade being disarmed from him and a fatal blow being struck mere moments later. The blade was recovered from the battle and is now gifted to warriors deserving of its legacy.
The bearer of the Sword of Harpedon gains the Eternal Warrior special rule.
Range -, S User, AP 3, Melee, Destined, Master-crafted
* Destined: This weapon gains the Rending special rule when the bearer is in a challenge.
SPEAR OF ITHAKA (40 Points) Crafted on the Iron Snakes homeworld of Ithaka and blessed by its holy waters, these rare spears were created by the chapters greatest Techmarines as a symbol of honour within the chapter, gifted to only the most deserving within the Iron Snakes. It is essentially a power lance with a slightly shortened hilt, but the head consisting of a full-size power sword instead of the much shorter blade typically placed on the end of a power lance. These modifications have made the spear a worthy weapon of any Iron Snakes battle brother and has even gained the attention of other chapters, who to this day still attempt to replicate the spear's complex yet elegant design of these spears.
Range -, S +1, AP 3, Melee, Impale, Master-crafted, Polearm, Specialist Weapon
* Impale: If this weapon is used on the turn the bearer charges, the bearer's Hammer of Wrath attacks resolve at Strength +2. In addition, To Wound rolls of 6 made with these Hammer of Wrath attacks are resolved at AP 2.
* Polearm: At the beginning of the Fight sub-phase, you must choose whether this weapon has the Two-handed special rule or has the Unwieldy special rule. The character does not benefit from saves provided by storm shields in the same turn this weapon is used as a Two-handed weapon.
WINGS OF TALARIAN (35 Points) This exquisite jump pack was designed in part by Captain Talarian of the Iron Snakes. The jump pack features extravagant wings, however the wings are for far more than just show, each containing a surface control area where the feather would be alongside a series of micro-thrusters. These added control surfaces and thrusters gave Talarian unrivalled agility and control when using his jump pack. After he was slain in battle, his jump pack was recovered by his squad and is now gifted to deserving battle brothers of the Iron Snakes.
The Wings of Talarian is a jump pack. In addition, the bearer and his Jump Infantry unit gain the Jink special rule and only scatter D6" when arriving into play using Deep Strike.
This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2014/04/10 19:55:17
CURRENT PROJECTS Chapter Creator 7th Ed (Planning Stages)
To fit with your ideas I'd probably give them access to the Siege Assault squad from the Forgeworld Siege Vanguard list. It includes the crusader rule, the option for the whole squad to have combat shields and you could work in the ability to upgrade X number of models to power weapons.
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Melcavuk wrote: To fit with your ideas I'd probably give them access to the Siege Assault squad from the Forgeworld Siege Vanguard list. It includes the crusader rule, the option for the whole squad to have combat shields and you could work in the ability to upgrade X number of models to power weapons.
Good idea, but I was kind of hoping to develop some homebrew rules for the chapter that I could use in my gaming group.
UPDATE: Speaking of which, the first post has been updated with Special Rules and some Chapter Relics. They definitely need some fine-tuning. The To Do list has been updated as well.
CURRENT PROJECTS Chapter Creator 7th Ed (Planning Stages)
Making every squad purchase the banner is pretty rough. Since every squad has to have it I would probably change it around a bit.
Make it so that the sergeant has to hold it and he becomes a vet serg for the same 15points.
I feel the extra tax on all the squads should at least give a decent benefit since you already use a weak chapter tactic and cant take Calgar to buff it.
Also for the HQ thing change it up to something like this:
Lead by Heroes: The Iron snakes HQ models are all parts of units and do not operate independently. Instead of purchasing them separately, they must be assigned to a squad of marines and they loose their Independent character status. You cannot attach HQ models to a troop selection but they can attach to any other infantry unit in your list. If you purchase an honor guard squad or command squad the HQ who unlocked said unit must be attached to them.
Oh and warlord traits could be somthing like this:
1. Fortune favors the Bold: The warlord and any unit he is attached to that deep strikes into the enemies deployment zone do not scatter.
2. Always Complete the Mission: Units within 12" of the warlord that are contesting an objective at the end of the game roll a d6. On a result of 5-6 they can no longer be contested by denial or scoring units.
3. Blessed by the Emporer: The warlord and any unit he is attached to may reroll failed FNP rolls.
4. Proud for a Reason: If any of your characters wins a challenge in assault, all enemy models within 6" of the challenge suffer a d3 penalty to their leadership score until the following turn.
5. Go for the Heart: If your warlord slays the opponents warlord in a challenge all enemy models must make a leadership test at -1Ld and fall back if they fail. Does not effect vehicles or fearless models.
6. Hold up your Banner: Once per game, every squad who still has their unit banner gains +2" to all movement they make and +2 to any assault results until their following turn.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/02 20:17:08
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Eihnlazer wrote: Making every squad purchase the banner is pretty rough. Since every squad has to have it I would probably change it around a bit.
Make it so that the sergeant has to hold it and he becomes a vet serg for the same 15points.
I feel the extra tax on all the squads should at least give a decent benefit since you already use a weak chapter tactic and cant take Calgar to buff it.
Also for the HQ thing change it up to something like this:
Lead by Heroes: The Iron snakes HQ models are all parts of units and do not operate independently. Instead of purchasing them separately, they must be assigned to a squad of marines and they loose their Independent character status. You cannot attach HQ models to a troop selection but they can attach to any other infantry unit in your list. If you purchase an honor guard squad or command squad the HQ who unlocked said unit must be attached to them.
Oh and warlord traits could be somthing like this:
1. Fortune favors the Bold: The warlord and any unit he is attached to that deep strikes into the enemies deployment zone do not scatter.
2. Always Complete the Mission: Units within 12" of the warlord that are contesting an objective at the end of the game roll a d6. On a result of 5-6 they can no longer be contested by denial or scoring units.
3. Blessed by the Emporer: The warlord and any unit he is attached to may reroll failed FNP rolls.
4. Proud for a Reason: If any of your characters wins a challenge in assault, all enemy models within 6" of the challenge suffer a d3 penalty to their leadership score until the following turn.
5. Go for the Heart: If your warlord slays the opponents warlord in a challenge all enemy models must make a leadership test at -1Ld and fall back if they fail. Does not effect vehicles or fearless models.
6. Hold up your Banner: Once per game, every squad who still has their unit banner gains +2" to all movement they make and +2 to any assault results until their following turn.
Thanks for the feedback!
The Veteran Sergeant idea is good.
I like the wording you've used for Lead by Heroes better than what I had, but not being able to be taken in Troops choices? Also only two Heroes per detachment instead of the original four?
CURRENT PROJECTS Chapter Creator 7th Ed (Planning Stages)
I'll take a crack at some of the feedback on the relics.
As an overall thing, point values are necessary for these, as a lot of their balancing comes from how much they cost. In the absence of those, though, I'll see what I can do:
Armour of Achillian - In all honesty, I don't get this. It's very confusingly worded. It provides a 2+ save...but if a save is failed, you take a T test or be removed...unless the roll of a 6 is made to-wound in which case you just die...I think? I can't tell if this item is brokenly overpowered or brokenly underpowered.
Helm of the Serpent - While I can't say for sure because of no point values, my gut feeling on this is that it needs to be toned back. This one item gives a guy/squad 4 special rules, including one that doesn't exist anywhere else. It suffers a lot from "I want all the things" syndrome, and certainly is nowhere near in line with the effectiveness of other codex relics. This is too much, I'd pick maybe 2 of these rules and go with that.
Spear of Kroneon - This is a straight up nope. I hate anything with the "I ignore all your rules" rules and this falls right into that with its charge ability. The fact that it is AP1, strikes at I and is insanely powerful only on the charge is rather irrelevant as there's almost nothing that will survive a charge from this. This is what I think of as a 'false drawback'. Sure this only works on the charge, but you never need more than the charge to utterly crush something. And even if you somehow fail to kill it, you still have an AP2 weapon on hand, as well as a squad of guys with lances or other melee weapons, to finish the job. This one needs to go back to the drawing board entirely, I think.
Sword of Harpedon - Need to see the costing before I make the call. EW on items is not an unheard of thing, but it is unusual to see it on a weapon. I like the Destined rule. So, pending points, I'm pretty good with this.
Talarian - Kind of the same problem as Helm here in that it is just jam packed with rules and it has a very bloated feeling. I'd cut it back to one rule (imo it would be the Jink or scatter one) and keep it more in line with the relics from other codicies.
curran12 wrote: I'll take a crack at some of the feedback on the relics.
As an overall thing, point values are necessary for these, as a lot of their balancing comes from how much they cost. In the absence of those, though, I'll see what I can do:
Armour of Achillian - In all honesty, I don't get this. It's very confusingly worded. It provides a 2+ save...but if a save is failed, you take a T test or be removed...unless the roll of a 6 is made to-wound in which case you just die...I think? I can't tell if this item is brokenly overpowered or brokenly underpowered.
Helm of the Serpent - While I can't say for sure because of no point values, my gut feeling on this is that it needs to be toned back. This one item gives a guy/squad 4 special rules, including one that doesn't exist anywhere else. It suffers a lot from "I want all the things" syndrome, and certainly is nowhere near in line with the effectiveness of other codex relics. This is too much, I'd pick maybe 2 of these rules and go with that.
Spear of Kroneon - This is a straight up nope. I hate anything with the "I ignore all your rules" rules and this falls right into that with its charge ability. The fact that it is AP1, strikes at I and is insanely powerful only on the charge is rather irrelevant as there's almost nothing that will survive a charge from this. This is what I think of as a 'false drawback'. Sure this only works on the charge, but you never need more than the charge to utterly crush something. And even if you somehow fail to kill it, you still have an AP2 weapon on hand, as well as a squad of guys with lances or other melee weapons, to finish the job. This one needs to go back to the drawing board entirely, I think.
Sword of Harpedon - Need to see the costing before I make the call. EW on items is not an unheard of thing, but it is unusual to see it on a weapon. I like the Destined rule. So, pending points, I'm pretty good with this.
Talarian - Kind of the same problem as Helm here in that it is just jam packed with rules and it has a very bloated feeling. I'd cut it back to one rule (imo it would be the Jink or scatter one) and keep it more in line with the relics from other codicies.
Thanks for the feedback!
You have Armour of Achillian pretty much figured out. Gets 2+ save all the time against everything. If save is failed, has to take a Toughness test. He fails? Dead. If the To Wound roll that the armour save was failed on was a 6, dead with no test at all. Its supposed to be based on the Armour of Achilles, which was said to be impregnable except for the achilles tendons, which where his one one weak spot.
Yeah, had a tough time deciding if Helm of the Serpent was too much or not enough. Guess I overshot. I shall revise it.
Spear of Kronean was a swap out for another weapon I had in mind but couldn't make work. Spear of Kronean is based on the sprear of cronus, which was said to be unstoppable. Guess I'll go back to Plan A on the other Iron Snakes weapon relic.
I picture Sword of Harpedon being around 55 points or so, give or take 5 points.
Agreed on Talarian. Was another case of not sure if it was good enough or too good, but definitely too good.
Thanks again for the feedback. ^.^
CURRENT PROJECTS Chapter Creator 7th Ed (Planning Stages)
2014/04/05 09:40:07
Subject: Iron Snakes - Creating Supplement Rules (Updated Apr 3rd)
How about having an option to upgrade each sarg to a Heroic sarg (use stats for captain)
Have 2 HQ choices but make command squads mandatory and lose IC rule.
Sword of Harpedon
The wielder of this weapon gains the Eternal Warrior special rule.
Range -, S User, AP 3, Melee, Destined, Master-crafted
* Destined: This weapon gains the Rending special rule when the bearer is in a challenge.
I find this relic to be surprisingly amusing, Destined could be really entertaining.
Destined: After a Challenge is accepted, roll a D6, on a result of 6, this Characters attacks have the following Profile
Sword of Harpedon
The wielder of this weapon gains the Eternal Warrior special rule.
Range -, S User, AP 3, Melee, Destined, Master-crafted
* Destined: This weapon gains the Rending special rule when the bearer is in a challenge.
I find this relic to be surprisingly amusing, Destined could be really entertaining.
Destined: After a Challenge is accepted, roll a D6, on a result of 6, this Characters attacks have the following Profile
Str - D Ap - 2,
Not sure how I'd feel about making the weapon that potent in a challenge.
CURRENT PROJECTS Chapter Creator 7th Ed (Planning Stages)
