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I know that a Regimento fImperial Guard is roughly 3000 men, which is based roughly on how many people could be crammed into a ship back during the Great Crusade, before the Heresy disrupted how units were organized and how the Navy was used.

What I'm *not* sure of is how it breaks down below that. Does the IG use battalions? Companies? A Platoon can vary from 25 men up to something around a hundred, but surely there's a "standard" size as well.

Anyone have any notion of how things break down, from regiment on down to squad?

A Regiment is an army drawn form a particular world (including any attached forces such as Ogryns, Commissars, Stormtroopers, etc).

Each regiment is led by a Regimental Commander (usually a Commander) and his various aides. The regiment itself is made up of an unspecified number of Companies generally led by a Captain. Each company is made up an unspecified number of Platoons each led by a Lieutenant. Each Platoon is made up of squads led by Sergeants.

A thought in addition to Happyjews short but comprehensive list, while this is the noted standard, it is also repeatedly noted in the fluff that different worlds have different names for ranks, and potentially different organizational groupings. I can see some worlds having official battalion organisations in between company and regiment. My own Guard force is based around a battlegroup drawn from a number of regiments in a single world division (armour, mechanised infantry and standard grunts).

Most regiments follow a set Doctrine, such as Light Infantry, Armoured Division, etc.

On the table top, a General will pull parts of multiple Regiments to participate, for example, he would utilize a Catachan armoured company, Catachan Cavalry, Catachan Scouts, etc.

Hrm. I was hoping that there was an official size listed somewhere, at least as definitive as a Space Marine Battle Company. Many a player want sto get a Battle Company for their force, at which point they consider the army finished.

I was hoping that there'd be something similar, for instance a batallion, that'd serve the same role for a Guard player. A Regiment of 3000 is somewhat of an overwhelming target akin to owning a Marine *Chapter*.

So.

Hm.

Hmm hmm...

Unfortunately, there is no standard. Some Regiments have a few thousand men, others have hundred of thousands of men.

In terms of my IG army, I use the British Army ranking system (specifically that of the Royal Irish Regiment) only the ranks are in Irish (my attempt at maintaining neutrality in the whole British vs Irish thing going on in Northern Ireland, maintaining my British nationality but keeping to my Irish roots).

In my eyes (and as it is for the 92nd Connough Rangers, also known as the Devil's Own), the Regiment is a planet wide thing. One planet's Imperial Guard contribution = One Regiment. However, in the case of Connough, it supplies three regiments: One Infantry, One Mechanised and One Special Forces (/Stormtroopers/Karskin). For infantry then, the flow chart would be sort of:

One Regiment: Whatever amount of Battalions
One Battalion: 3 - 4 Companies
One Company: 3 Platoons
One Platoon: 30 men all in

Then for mechanised:

One Regiment: Again, whatever number of Battalions
One Battalion: 3 - 4 Squadrons/Batteries (depending on whether they're tankies or artillery)
One Squadron/Battery: 3 Platoons
One Platoon: 3 Tanks/Guns

For special forces, who knows, it's all top secret is it not?

But for my army (fluff wise), there's only one company left in the Battalion and thats the way its maintained as a mark of honour so I have:

92nd Connough Rangers (The Devil's Own) - 92nd Bn of the Regiment
Alpha Coy - Company
Coy HQ - Coy OC and his support staff
1 Pln, 2 Pln, 3 Pln - Platoons, 30 men each
Saffron Pln - Support Platoon (Heavy Weapons Team)

Yeah, I was thinking of a 3-1-10 style basis.

S, a platoon would have three ten-man units, while three platoons would make a company, similar to how you have a squadron of 3 tanks and 9 tanks + 1 command tank = one company.

9 squads of ten guys + HQ

In theory, you could do it with three batches of 2 10-man squads and a command squad, giving 3 parts. I'm still not sure.

60 men + 15 command is easier to handle than 90 + 15, for certain. 80 men + support units isn't bad, either.

Hrm.

Hrm hrm.

The codex of the IG in 5th Ed says:
( page 9 )

- a regiment is 3 - 20 companies
- a company is 3 - 6 Platoons
- a platoon is 3+ squads of 10 Guardsmen.

The examples given are 18th Valhallan light infantry = 120.000 soldiers, 24th Vostroyan Tank Rgt = 1.500 ( crew ).
Maybe a company is enough to aim for ? 6 Platoons of 55 => 330, plus specialists, plus attached support from other regiments ( Tanks, Arty, etc ) should keep anyone busy. I doubt your sanity is still intact after Guardsmen N° 500 painted in the same scheme......

Wakshaani wrote:
Hrm. I was hoping that there was an official size listed somewhere, at least as definitive as a Space Marine Battle Company. Many a player want sto get a Battle Company for their force, at which point they consider the army finished.

I was hoping that there'd be something similar, for instance a batallion, that'd serve the same role for a Guard player. A Regiment of 3000 is somewhat of an overwhelming target akin to owning a Marine *Chapter*.

So.

Hm.

Hmm hmm...

It would depend how you build your army, the current IG codex would build either a Platoon (if you go with vets) or a Company (if you go with IG platoons in troops). Generally speaking, the 'collectors equivalent' of a space marine battle company would probably be a company, which in the real world would average between 100 men and 300 men, I would say you wouldn't necessarily be wrong to do the same for your IG. Keep in mind however, that for the most part, assets are divided by type. I.E. rough riders, tanks, artillery, stormtroopers, etc. etc. all form separate companies, so technically if you wanted to have a mix of unit types you would have to actually collect multiple companies, at which point you might as well just call it a battalion or brigade (actually, IIRC they form separately at the Regimental level, but you could just as easily make an argument for company organization after the original campaign force suffered heavy casualties and was reformed as a composite regiment).

Regiments aren't always 3000 men btw, some of the FW books for example put the number for a single regiment at 10,000 and IIRC even 80,000 (DKoK IIRC).

My regiments go around 3600 men. 3 1200 man battalions divided into multiple companies, platoons, squads and fireteams.

Solstice Lunar III, 'Sunshiners'

Solstice Lunar Regiments consist of 1-3 Companies led by a Colonel, usually the commander of A Company.

The Sunshiners are under-strength, consisting of two Companies led by Colonel Branwen ferch Sion and Major Lynn Ewan. Colonel ferch Sion leads A Company, and Major Ewan leads C Company.

Major – Company Commander
Captain – Company 2iC
Lieutenant – platoon commander
Sergeant – Platoon 2iC
Corporal – Squad Leader
Corpsman – Squad Medic
Specialist – Musician, Comms. Officer or Special or Heavy Weapon
Trooper – Enlisted woman

Each Company consists of 1 C&CS (Command and Control Section), 1 ISTAR (Intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition, and Reconnaissance), 4 Platoons, and 2 S3 (Support Sentinel Section). They may be expanded with additional resources depending on the combat theatre, most commonly additional Valiant and Victor gunships.

Each C&C contains 1 AC (Area Command), 2 IS (Infantry Squads), 1 S2 (Support Squad), 2 VAC (Valkyrie Assault Carrier) and 2 VaG (Valiant Assault gunships)

Each AC contains 1 Major, 1 Captain, 1 Corpsman, 1 Comm. Officer and 2 Specialists.

Each IS contains 1 Corporal, 1 Corpsman, 2 Specialists, 1 Comm. Trooper and 7 Troopers.

Each S2 contains 1 Corporal, 1 Comm. Trooper, and 4 Specialists.

Each ISTAR contains 1 ICS (Intelligence Command Squad) and 5 ST (Scout Teams)

Each SCS contains 1 Lieutenant and 1 Comm. Officer.

Each ST contains 1 Comm. Trooper and 1 Specialist, usually a Sniper or demolitions expert.

Each Platoon consists of 1 PCS, 3 IS, 1 S2, 3 VAC and 2 VaG

Each PCS contains 1 Lieutenant, 1 Sergeant, 1 Comm. Officer, 1 Corpsman, and 2 Specialists.

Each S3 consists of 1 SCS (Sentinel Command Squadron) and 2 MSS (Mechanised Support Squadrons)

Each SCS contains 1 Lieutenant, 1 Sergeant, and 1 Comm. Officer. The Comm. Officer pilots a special ECM Sentinel with a long-range Vox system.

Each MSS contains 1 Sergeant and 2 Corporals. Note that they do not include Comm. Officers, as their vehicles have inbuilt vox systems.

 1hadhq wrote:
The codex of the IG in 5th Ed says:
( page 9 )

- a regiment is 3 - 20 companies
- a company is 3 - 6 Platoons
- a platoon is 3+ squads of 10 Guardsmen.

The examples given are 18th Valhallan light infantry = 120.000 soldiers, 24th Vostroyan Tank Rgt = 1.500 ( crew ).
Maybe a company is enough to aim for ? 6 Platoons of 55 => 330, plus specialists, plus attached support from other regiments ( Tanks, Arty, etc ) should keep anyone busy. I doubt your sanity is still intact after Guardsmen N° 500 painted in the same scheme......

Yeah, the hole that's missing there is the battallion size, which I think is what'll be closest to a Space Marine Battle Company in use, if not in model count.

So, you'd probably start with an infantry company (Company HQ, three platoon HQs, three sets of three ten-man infantry squads, for 110-ish people.), add an armored squad, an arty squad (These are detatchments from a full arty company or armored company, natch), and go from there.

Heck, you might even "Battle Company" it a bit more... 6 infantry companies, two fast-attack companies, and two heavy support companies, drawn from assorted sources. Like, one Leman Russ company (9 Russ + 1 command tank) that's then split up between the assorted smaller chunks but forms up for really pretty battallion photos.

Okay, that's ... 660+ infantry. Yikes. Maybe 3-1-1? Hrm.

Hrm hrm.

Still needs work.

Wakshaani wrote:

 1hadhq wrote:
The codex of the IG in 5th Ed says:
( page 9 )

- a regiment is 3 - 20 companies
- a company is 3 - 6 Platoons
- a platoon is 3+ squads of 10 Guardsmen.

The examples given are 18th Valhallan light infantry = 120.000 soldiers, 24th Vostroyan Tank Rgt = 1.500 ( crew ).
Maybe a company is enough to aim for ? 6 Platoons of 55 => 330, plus specialists, plus attached support from other regiments ( Tanks, Arty, etc ) should keep anyone busy. I doubt your sanity is still intact after Guardsmen N° 500 painted in the same scheme......

Yeah, the hole that's missing there is the battallion size, which I think is what'll be closest to a Space Marine Battle Company in use, if not in model count.

.

Guard Organization in 5th ed is a dumbed down variant. We'll see what 6th ed does.
But generally GW had more than "everything is a regiment" to offer. Lets look at 3rd ed.
( maybe not ideal because foreign text..)



It was possible to spent a few pages to give people ideas. Even in black&white, there is a more 'realistic' look & feel of the Guard as military organization based on logic. Now we get pictures, and "forging a narrative"...

The hole you seem to see doesn't exist. The fluff of deployed IG just hasn't got the interest of the "design team" currently.

Plus even GW knows when it is a real challenge; they had a photo of the assembled Ultramarines in C: SM 3rd ed. Real models. They had a photo of the assembled 8th Cadia ( most of it ) in IG 4th? ed, but this wasn't real models but a copy and paste job of some IG inf and chimeras...

At the usual 1 space marine = 3 Guardsmen ratio a 'battle company sized project' leads to 300+ IG models.
R.Dorn said : "100 SM or 1000 other troops." 1:10

If you got the patience to build lots and lots of IG, fine. We obviously want pics then.
I'd start with a force of the IG 'as deployed somewhere' and not a whole regiment. Slow and steady. You will get to hundreds of IG models one day....

Aren't all Regiments considered functionally equivalent in size and approximate power, as that is the standard level of organization that the Departmento Munitorum uses for logistics and planning?

 minigun762 wrote:
Aren't all Regiments considered functionally equivalent in size and approximate power, as that is the standard level of organization that the Departmento Munitorum uses for logistics and planning?

Not as far as I know. It is understood that regiments could be anywhere on a range of combat effectiveness, power and size. Worlds are also required to provide regiments of power and size commensurate with their tithe level.

 Flinty wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
Aren't all Regiments considered functionally equivalent in size and approximate power, as that is the standard level of organization that the Departmento Munitorum uses for logistics and planning?

Not as far as I know. It is understood that regiments could be anywhere on a range of combat effectiveness, power and size. Worlds are also required to provide regiments of power and size commensurate with their tithe level.

I thought the number of regiments a world was due was the difference, not the quality or size of the regiments.

It depends on what the DM requires at the time I guess. As well as differences at creation, the constant flux of combat casualties, uncertain reinforcement and combat experience will quickly mean that the combat power of regiments will vary wildly.

Alright, I plopped some pages around last night and hammered together a rough draft. Sadly, the formattying of a Word document isn't gonna work here, so I'll cut, paste, then weep for a while at how it looks so ugly compared to my alpha doc.

From there, feedback would be very much appreciated (And the whole thing will obviously be redone once the new Codex drops) ... in particular, I know that armor and arty units are usually on loan from another segment so shouldn't really fall into the list, but right now I'm considering them to be asigned down from the regimental level. High Command spreads them out and subordinates them to other units, with some having been there for so long that they're essentially thought of *as* the unit's, even though they aren't. Names are generally blank, for filling in later.

Let's see how ugly this looks.

**************************************************************

101st Cadian Battalion

Battalion Command
Colnel Blank and command squad with Salamander
Commisariat Auxilary
Lord Commissar Blank and five Ogryn bodyguards in Taurox
Storm Troopers (10) with Taurox
Storm Troopers (10) with Taurox
Storm Troopers (10) with Taurox
Telepath Auxilary
Primaris Psycher
Psycher Battle Squad
Ministorum Auxilary
Five Ministorum Priests

Alpha Company
Lt Colnel Alpha and command squad with Chimera
Veteran Squad (10 men) with Chimera
Veteran Squad (10 men) with Chimera
Veteran Squad (10 men) with Chimera
Captain blank and command squad with Chimera
Veteran Squad (10 men) with Chimera
Veteran Squad (10 men) with Chimera
Veteran Squad (10 men) with Chimera
1st Lieutenant blank and command squad with camo cloaks
Veteran squad (10 men) with camo cloaks
Veteran squad (10 men) with camo cloaks
Ratling Snipers (10 men)

Bravo Company
Major Bravo and command squad
Captain blank and command squad plus Commissar
Infantry Platoon (10 men)
Infantry Platoon (10 men)
Infantry Platoon (10 men)
1st Lieutenant blank and command squad plus Commissar
Infantry Platoon (10 men)
Infantry Platoon (10 men)
Infantry Platoon (10 men)
2nd Lieutenant blank and command squad plus Commissar
Infantry Platoon (10 men)
Infantry Platoon (10 men)
Infantry Platoon (10 men)

Charlie Company
Major Charlie and command squad
Captain blank and command squad plus Commissar
Infantry Platoon (10 men)
Infantry Platoon (10 men)
Infantry Platoon (10 men)
1st Lieutenant blank and command squad plus Commissar
Infantry Platoon (10 men)
Infantry Platoon (10 men)
Infantry Platoon (10 men)
2nd Lieutenant blank and command squad plus Commissar
Infantry Platoon (10 men)
Infantry Platoon (10 men)
Infantry Platoon (10 men)


Delta Company
Major Delta and command squad in Valkyrie
1st Air Assault wing
Captain blank and command squad in Valkyrie assault carrier
10 Veterans in Valkyrie assault carrier
10 Veterans in Valkyrie assault carrier
1st Air Support wing
Vendetta Gunship
Vendetta Gunship
Vendetta Gunship
2nd Air Support wing
Vendetta Gunship
Vendetta Gunship
Vendetta Gunship
1st Lieutenant and command squad in Salamander
1st Sentinel platoon
Sentinel squadron (3 sentinels)
Sentinel squadron (3 sentinels)
Sentinel squadron (3 sentinels)
2nd Sentinel platoon
Sentinel squadron (3 sentinels)
Sentinel squadron (3 sentinels)
Sentinel squadron (3 sentinels)
3rd Sentinel platoon
Sentinel squadron (3 sentinels)
Sentinel squadron (3 sentinels)
Sentinel Squadron (3 sentinels)
2nd Lieutenant blank and command squad on horseback
1st Rough Rider platoon (10 Rough Riders)
2nd Rough Rider platoon (10 Rough Riders)
1st Hellhounds (3 Hellhounds)

Echo Company
Techpriest Engineer blank
1st Armored squadron
Leman Russ battle tank
Leman Russ battle tank
Leman Russ battle tank
2nd Armored squadron
Leman Russ battle tank
Leman Russ battle tank
Leman Russ battle tank
1st Ordanance Battery
Basilisk
Basilisk
Basilisk

Some afternotes.

The Rough RIders are one of the more disliked units around, hanging around thanks to someone in high command's romantic views of classic cavalry. They stink, the riders are snobs, and they never really *do* anything, but they look great when on parade duty and are popular with the locals s they can't really be disposed of.

The Ratlings are well-know as the worst-behaved unit in the battalion, running scams, keeping an underground betting ring going, procuring extra things for the supply staff, and take a cut of all the card games that are played around the camp. Crafty as foxes, that lot.

The Hellhound unit, unofficially known as Corey's Coffins, is used for punishment detail for serious offenses. The handful of long-term members are generally thought of as insane, but they have a shrug and live life attitude. Corey himself has driven a coffin for a full decade and now wanders around dressed like an undertaker. There's really not any more disciplining that can be done to him at this point, so command quietly looks the other way.

The air wing is the pride and joy of the CO and they get all the best stuff. The rest of Delta Company hates them so very, very much. Teh Ratlings routinely steal from them and pass the goodies around to the other units.

Foxtrot Company exists on paper but isn't shown here as it currently consists of a single soldier, there to handle paperwork. In times of need, Foxtrot fills up with raw recruits and takes the front line of the worst meatgrinders.

Bravo and Charlie companies do the majority of the fighting in normal situations, with Alpha broken up and used as a supporting element, rather than marched into battle by itself.

Alpha, Bravo, and Charlie companies each take up a role similar to two Tactical squads in a Marine Battle Company. Delta equates two Assault squads, while Echo matches a pair of Devastators.

Battalion Command rarely takes the field, leaving it to company command to handle tactical while they handle strategic. The Commisariat is applied to points of hard resistance, while the Telepath Auxillary is used more for communication than battle. The Ministorum priests are technically one squad, but in practice one is assigned to each of the five companies to attend spiritual needs.

************************************************************

Bonus observation: There needs to be not only a command-level Leman RUss, for a proper armored company, but there's a serious need for a command-level Sentinel for a proper scout company as well! Also? There are *way* fewer units in an IG force than I remember. There are nearly as many Leman Russ variants as there are all other units combined. Fast Attack is particularly dire if you discount the flying units.

Imperial Armor book one has a complete breakdown of a regiment - infantry, armor, and artillery. Normally a combined arms battalion like yours is formed for specific missions. You have Imperial Navy elements (Valkyries and Vendettas) mixed in as well.

As for what you want, do what you want! Seriously, this is a game where you make your own units storyline. Have fun with it. I know my regiment is mixed in the same way.

I have several suggestions but they may all be useless in a couple weeks when the new codex drops.

And now the new Codex is dropping. Wonder if anyone will notice this thread and report on if (and that's a mighty big if) there are there's a breakdown in there.

If not, I'm curious what Imperial Armor had to say. What am I saying, I'm curious what IA had to say regardless.