Switch Theme:

Crimson slaughter  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Beast of Nurgle



New Jersey

Alright so, lets say that I take CS as my primary detachment. Does everything have fear or just possessed (since they are the only units in the book)?

(asking because some people say that only the possessed will have it)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/28 03:54:29


Newer player, but have been stomped enough times to know what works and what doesn't as far as CSM go
 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Everything. The Harbingers of the Tormented states
"All Models in a Crimson Slaughter detatchment have the Fear special rule."
Possessed already have fear with the Daemon rule anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/28 03:58:07


 
   
Made in ca
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller






If what Nightlord 1987 quoted is the line in the supplement then even your rhinos have Fear as long as they are in a Crimson Slaughter detachment.
   
Made in us
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes




Virginia

Yeah, and cultists...
   
Made in us
Bounding Assault Marine






 CrashCanuck wrote:
If what Nightlord 1987 quoted is the line in the supplement then even your rhinos have Fear as long as they are in a Crimson Slaughter detachment.


are they models?

you automatically lose points for using the trite gamer-isms: balanced, meta, Mat Ward, etc. 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





Yes, vehicles are models.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Beast of Nurgle



New Jersey

Thanks everyone.
From what I understand, if I have a normal csm army without any of the relics and have the CS book, I can just say it is crimson slaughter and get fear on everything?
Just sounds dumb when said like that, so some people were telling me otherwise.

Newer player, but have been stomped enough times to know what works and what doesn't as far as CSM go
 
   
Made in us
Bounding Assault Marine






p8ntba1141ife wrote:
Thanks everyone.
From what I understand, if I have a normal csm army without any of the relics and have the CS book, I can just say it is crimson slaughter and get fear on everything?
Just sounds dumb when said like that, so some people were telling me otherwise.


write your list from the CS book and yes, your stuff gets fear.

you automatically lose points for using the trite gamer-isms: balanced, meta, Mat Ward, etc. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





scary rhinos.
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





As if Fear was a useful ability...

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Vanished Completely

More so on a non-walker vehicle...

8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures.  
   
Made in us
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker




South Chicago burbs

rigeld2 wrote:
As if Fear was a useful ability...


When your entire army has it for free, its a big deal. Marines may not care, but lots of xenos will, and that's what the top tier lists are these days.

insaniak wrote:
YMDC has plenty of room for discussion veering away from the RAW, particularly in cases like this where what is being put forward as the RAW is absurd.

11k
4K
4k
 
   
Made in ie
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard





Ireland

 BarBoBot wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
As if Fear was a useful ability...


When your entire army has it for free, its a big deal. Marines may not care, but lots of xenos will, and that's what the top tier lists are these days.


You are still not going to build an army around it.

It's not the size of the blade, it's how you use it.
2000+
1500+
2000+

For all YMDC arguements remember: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vbd3E6tK2U

My blog: http://dublin-spot-check.blogspot.ie/ 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Vanished Completely

Most of my armies are too low in weapon skill for it to matter anyway.
Oh you Tau, you and your crazy disgust for melee.

8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures.  
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





 BarBoBot wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
As if Fear was a useful ability...


When your entire army has it for free, its a big deal. Marines may not care, but lots of xenos will, and that's what the top tier lists are these days.

Its not just being affect by fear that matters, they also have to be able to be fail that fear check (which necrons or eldar don't) or have failing it actually matter (which with tau it doesn't)

Seriously fear is useless against almost all armies
   
Made in us
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker




South Chicago burbs

When you pay no points for it and every unit gets it for free its far from useless...

Are you claiming necrons and eldar can't fail a Ld check? Ha! I guess perils of the warp never happens either right?

When every single unit in your army causes fear for free, your going to have fear checks failed. Its called statistics.

I'll take free army wide fear ANY day.

insaniak wrote:
YMDC has plenty of room for discussion veering away from the RAW, particularly in cases like this where what is being put forward as the RAW is absurd.

11k
4K
4k
 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





I play daemons, I already have army wide fear. And having played them since 6ed launched, in the almost two years and hundreds of games played with fear it has only mattered less then 10 times. That's a single digit number. And I rarely play against marines.

It is utterly useless
   
Made in us
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker




South Chicago burbs

Statistics disagree with you.

insaniak wrote:
YMDC has plenty of room for discussion veering away from the RAW, particularly in cases like this where what is being put forward as the RAW is absurd.

11k
4K
4k
 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





Statistics disagrees? I have a 200+ games of empirical sampling for hundreds of instances of fear. Statistics is on my side.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/30 05:28:28


 
   
Made in us
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker




South Chicago burbs

Sorry, but the odds of failing a LD test even at LD 10 are not concurrent with your experience.

Hundreds of games with multiple instances of fear tests being taken each game and you claim 10 times in total that someone has failed a LD test?

Even if I believed you, are so naive as to think that that's the statistical norm? Its called math. Failing a LD test happens... And when you get that special rule army wide for FREE there is no down side.

Haters gonna hate.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/30 08:51:24


insaniak wrote:
YMDC has plenty of room for discussion veering away from the RAW, particularly in cases like this where what is being put forward as the RAW is absurd.

11k
4K
4k
 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





 BarBoBot wrote:
Hundreds of games with multiple instances of fear tests being taken each game and you claim 10 times in total that someone has failed a LD test?

No, only 10 times did fear actually do something. LD has been failed tons of times and a few of those times it was a fear check, but almost never did fear actually affect the game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/30 09:01:05


 
   
Made in us
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker




South Chicago burbs

Oh so there were times that that army wide FREE special rule was a benefit?

Its almost as if there is no drawback.

insaniak wrote:
YMDC has plenty of room for discussion veering away from the RAW, particularly in cases like this where what is being put forward as the RAW is absurd.

11k
4K
4k
 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





 BarBoBot wrote:
Oh so there were times that that army wide FREE special rule was a benefit?

Its almost as if there is no drawback.

the drawback is its a complete waste of time
   
Made in us
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker




South Chicago burbs

There's the answer. You probably don't even use fear. You think its a waste of time.

Its no wonder you claim that its only helped 10 times in hundreds of games.

I won't waste any more of your precious time with minor things like game rules.

insaniak wrote:
YMDC has plenty of room for discussion veering away from the RAW, particularly in cases like this where what is being put forward as the RAW is absurd.

11k
4K
4k
 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





I always use fear in the hopes it does something and because its a mandatory rule
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





I play a Typhus army.

Fear is my weapon.

At least you don't have to buy a silly Icon of Despair for the same effect...
   
Made in ie
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard





Ireland

 BarBoBot wrote:
There's the answer. You probably don't even use fear. You think its a waste of time.

Its no wonder you claim that its only helped 10 times in hundreds of games.

I won't waste any more of your precious time with minor things like game rules.


It's efficacy in the game is low. The number of games where a fearless or ATSKNF unit is getting charged in my meta is low, even then with lots of warlord traits giving a bubble of effect you are still rolling 9 or 10 on the LD and probability (which is different from statistics) tells that it is a good chance to pass.

For crownaxe the statistics pan out for fear being useless.

It's not the size of the blade, it's how you use it.
2000+
1500+
2000+

For all YMDC arguements remember: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vbd3E6tK2U

My blog: http://dublin-spot-check.blogspot.ie/ 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare





The downside is you get different (though admittedly largely better) Warlord traits and less access to Veterans of the Long War. So it's an even trade off. You don't get to use the largely useless due to being over costed VotLW but instead get the largely useless fear everywhere for free.

Once you take out Fearless and ATSKNF armies what are you left with?

Guard: generally stubborn Ld10 or little units that you hit first on 3s. So fear has no real effect on the game.

Tau: Ws2 means you don't need fear to beat them in combat. Getting there is the problem.

Necrons: all Ld10 and mostly reliant on tricks in combat. This is the most likely army for fear to be useful agaibst and it is all Ld10.

Eldar: The only units you're likely to be in combat with will be either Fearless or Ld10 with a reroll...

Dark Eldar: Ld9-10 with a reroll and made of paper if you get in combat with themyou either win regardless of fear or you're in a world of trouble against an Ld10 rerolling beast pack...

So I think it is about fair. The CS supplement is just flatout better than the original in pretty much every way much like the Iyanden one for Eldar. I'd advise every chaos player to use it. Though that advice has nothing to do with the army wide Fear.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Yes my Colour is Black but not for the reasons stated mainly just because it's slimming... http://imperiusdominatus.blogspot.com 
   
Made in au
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Brisbane, Australia

 CrashCanuck wrote:
If what Nightlord 1987 quoted is the line in the supplement then even your rhinos have Fear as long as they are in a Crimson Slaughter detachment.


so if your enemy fails his fear check, he hits your moving rhino on 4's, like only fateweaver can!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 FlingitNow wrote:
The downside is you get different (though admittedly largely better) Warlord traits and less access to Veterans of the Long War. So it's an even trade off. You don't get to use the largely useless due to being over costed VotLW but instead get the largely useless fear everywhere for free.


I hate this thinking.

Fear is not useless, it just doesn't come up most of the time. There's a difference.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/02 12:07:45


 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare





I said mostly useless and as you concur most of the time it gives you no benefit I don't see how that's different? I didn't say entirely useless just gives infrequent marginal benefits.

Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

Yes my Colour is Black but not for the reasons stated mainly just because it's slimming... http://imperiusdominatus.blogspot.com 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K You Make Da Call
Go to: