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After playing a few-dozen games with my Horus Heresy Legion, which is comprised of footslogging tac squads, rapier, and whirlwind, I've noticed a distinct weakness: Space Marine Bike Armies

White Scars, Iron Hands with a TH/SE Bike CM, Ravenwing PlasTalon Spam

I've been grinding through both Heresy books, but I can't really find any reliable counters or counter-tactics to handle SM Bike lists.

Advice?

-TheCaptain

Points value? Legions struggle to make balanced lists at less than 2k and only really feel right at 2500.

I personally find the legions struggle regardless of enemy at low points values

Games between 1500-2k; it's not that I feel I don't have enough things to deal with Bike armies, I just feel I'm not bringing the right things.

What list do you run?

As of now:

Sigisimund

Master of Signal

20 Man Tac Squad
-Extra CCW
-Power Sword/Artificier Sgt
-Apothecary

10 Man Tac Squad
-Vexilla

10 Man Veteran Squad
-2HB
-Plasma Pistol/Artificier/Power Sword Sgt
-7 Power Maul
-Rhino
(380 Points I definitely need to change out once IF unique units are leaked)

Rapier Laser Destroyer

Legion Whirlwind

Heavy Support Squad
5 Autocannons

This is my 1500; and between changing out the Vets and bumping up to 2000 I've gotta make a big FW order, which is why I'd like to plan out a list that's more effective in a bike-heavy meta than it is now.

Thanks for any/all help and advice,
-TheCaptain

What kind of rapiers are you fielding?

 Zuul wrote:
What kind of rapiers are you fielding?

A single Laser Destroyer

 TheCaptain wrote:
Games between 1500-2k; it's not that I feel I don't have enough things to deal with Bike armies, I just feel I'm not bringing the right things.

But that's exactly the issue - at this points value the legion list can't build the way you have to deal with a specific list. The legions end up very points heavy in the initial builds which leads to issues with more specialised formations.

Lets look at your list for example - you have a huge amount of points tied up in HQ for a 1500 point list. You have 1 tactical squad loaded to the gills and another virtually bare and effectively useless. Your veterans are again very bloated and mixed up in what they do in terms of weapon load out. Add a single rapier (you need 2 or 3 to actually have any real impact) a single whirlwind (again you need more than 1 - especially against MEQ forces) and a measly 5 auto cannon squad.

A single Av14 vehicle ruins you essentially and any AV12 flyer does as well.

Your list is far to top heavy. Ditching Sigismund for a start would be the best idea as well as gutting the vets or loosing them all together.

I've been toying with low point legion lists myself. I managed to stuff my HQ and troops into 500 points leaving the other 1-1.5k for support and upgrades.

Here is is what I've got for 500 points.

HQ: Primus medicae
+combat shield

Troops
*tac squad
+4 marines
+combiweapon
*tac squad
+4 marines
+combiweapon

 Massaen wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:
Games between 1500-2k; it's not that I feel I don't have enough things to deal with Bike armies, I just feel I'm not bringing the right things.

But that's exactly the issue - at this points value the legion list can't build the way you have to deal with a specific list. The legions end up very points heavy in the initial builds which leads to issues with more specialised formations.

Lets look at your list for example - you have a huge amount of points tied up in HQ for a 1500 point list. You have 1 tactical squad loaded to the gills and another virtually bare and effectively useless. Your veterans are again very bloated and mixed up in what they do in terms of weapon load out. Add a single rapier (you need 2 or 3 to actually have any real impact) a single whirlwind (again you need more than 1 - especially against MEQ forces) and a measly 5 auto cannon squad.

A single Av14 vehicle ruins you essentially and any AV12 flyer does as well.

Your list is far to top heavy. Ditching Sigismund for a start would be the best idea as well as gutting the vets or loosing them all together.

And once those changes are made, what would you suggest I do to make my list more comfortable against bikes?

Sicaran Battle Tank? 6 twin linked autocannon shots with rending and no jink save?

Have you thought of Legion special weapons squad in a drop pod?

This goes off my recalling of Betrayal, so it might not be possible, but you could do squad of ten, with plasma or melta guns and the sergeant with auspex in a drop pod.

If the Special Weapons squads are troops they could also act as upfield scoring, but its been a while since i read the book so not sure if viable.

It's a bit of a hassle to get legionaries into drop pods. It usually involves the rite of war that requires everybody take a pod/ deep strike option.

I've actually been considering a night lords ally force for their deep striking terminators for a similar effect.

The problem with the Legion Support Squads is that they get horrendously expensive with melta or plasmaguns. And your opponent will know to target them right away.

Vehicles would be a good option. And don't forget that almost every Legion tank can take Armored Ceramite, rendering melta weapons next to useless.

Well if you drop pod them and open fire with them, they will be very obvious targets anyway. Any unit that makes itself look dangerous becomes an instant priority target.

My best idea is a Split force org with a Praetor with jump pack, two assault squads, and as many 6 man tac support squads with plasma in drop pods as you can(at least three). Then your other force whatever you feel like. Since you are tailoring anyway, how about a heavy support squad with missile launchers or lascannons as well? They would shine against a bike heavy list.

Conversely bring a normal force and put plasma support squads in Rhinos and drive them where they are needed. I have done this in smaller games to great surprise effect and I still had the sergeant left at the end to take an object in two of them.