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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Mythantor wrote:
 BlapBlapBlap wrote:
Dark Eldar side with whoever benefits them. They'll just as easily watch the Craftworlds burn if it doesn't benefit them.


Not true, they have on several occasions intervered to protect a craftworld with no benefit to themselves.

Notable occasions include helping Iyanden against the tyrannids and another one who's name esacpes me against an ord WAAAGH.


They did that because they thought Lyanden's situation was funny. That's a chaotic trait. In most games, comedians and comedic/entertainment classes (bards, for example) are considered chaotically aligned. Dark Eldar doing things for their own entertainment, including rescuing Lyanden, puts them quite firmly in this category (there's a reason why the chaos gods are often described as "laughing")

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/31 19:28:11


 
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

The impirum has far bigger issues from eldar.

Like super bio predators who just love to nom planets or chaos gods and there legions.

Vs enemies like that eldar are a tolerable xeno force by comparison.

They still fight of course, conflict, but given the threats they face the eldar are not the worst and most urgent threat to deal with. Dark eldar are slave raiders, others pirates, however vs say a black crusade, hive fleet, you have to prioritise your wars and rescorces.

Impirium however vast cannot fight everyone at once in its present state

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/31 21:26:24


Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
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Shrieking Traitor Sentinel Pilot







From the background fluff in the different Eldar codices, I'd say that Ordo Xenos inquisitors, at least, know the difference. They know that some Eldar live on Craftworlds in space, some live in a giant city in the Webway, and that they have different cultures and use different weapons and gear depending on where they're from. Based on all the Inquisitorial files written on both sets of Eldar, you'd have to be a moron not to notice the differences. But all of that stuff is classified. If the average citizen (and a guardsmen has about as much knowledge as the average citizen) knows about Eldar at all, they probably know the purely as piratical raiders led by witches (a sort of amalgamation of the two). Oh, and according to the Uplifting Primer they are "weak and frail, and use outdated and archaic equipment."

As far as the CWE and DE's relation to each other, I think the reason people get confused is because of how DE society in general works. Yes, the CWE are distrustful of the DE and have a low opinion of them. But look at how the DE treat EACH OTHER. Backstabbing, torture, enslavement, using each other as raw materials for their science projects. The CWE would be crazy if they DID trust and like them! So the CWE rightfully look at the DE as a bunch of depraved lunatics. Meanwhile, the DE look at the CWE as a niave bunch of killjoys whose method of staving off She Who Thirsts makes them so repressed that life isn't even worth living. But in the end, they're all family. All Eldar are Eldar supremacists. They consider other Elder the only other "real" people, and as such, share a special bond of empathy with them. And remember, in the big scheme of the galaxy, there aren't that many Eldar left. The whole, "DE side with whoever benefits them, They'll just as easily watch the Craftworlds burn if it doesn't benefit them", thing is actually a lot closer to the CRAFTWORLD Eldar's view of the "lesser" races. The DE and CWE's relationship is more like a pair of brothers, one of whom is devoutly religious, and one of whom is a junkie. Neither of them is buying into the other's lifestyle, but if the other one is in serious trouble, well... he is my brother, after all, and I've only got one.

40k is 111% science.
 
   
Made in ca
Been Around the Block





 fallinq wrote:
From the background fluff in the different Eldar codices, I'd say that Ordo Xenos inquisitors, at least, know the difference. They know that some Eldar live on Craftworlds in space, some live in a giant city in the Webway, and that they have different cultures and use different weapons and gear depending on where they're from. Based on all the Inquisitorial files written on both sets of Eldar, you'd have to be a moron not to notice the differences. But all of that stuff is classified. If the average citizen (and a guardsmen has about as much knowledge as the average citizen) knows about Eldar at all, they probably know the purely as piratical raiders led by witches (a sort of amalgamation of the two). Oh, and according to the Uplifting Primer they are "weak and frail, and use outdated and archaic equipment."

As far as the CWE and DE's relation to each other, I think the reason people get confused is because of how DE society in general works. Yes, the CWE are distrustful of the DE and have a low opinion of them. But look at how the DE treat EACH OTHER. Backstabbing, torture, enslavement, using each other as raw materials for their science projects. The CWE would be crazy if they DID trust and like them! So the CWE rightfully look at the DE as a bunch of depraved lunatics. Meanwhile, the DE look at the CWE as a niave bunch of killjoys whose method of staving off She Who Thirsts makes them so repressed that life isn't even worth living. But in the end, they're all family. All Eldar are Eldar supremacists. They consider other Elder the only other "real" people, and as such, share a special bond of empathy with them. And remember, in the big scheme of the galaxy, there aren't that many Eldar left. The whole, "DE side with whoever benefits them, They'll just as easily watch the Craftworlds burn if it doesn't benefit them", thing is actually a lot closer to the CRAFTWORLD Eldar's view of the "lesser" races. The DE and CWE's relationship is more like a pair of brothers, one of whom is devoutly religious, and one of whom is a junkie. Neither of them is buying into the other's lifestyle, but if the other one is in serious trouble, well... he is my brother, after all, and I've only got one.


Good stuff brother. Now if only all the humans could do the same - Chaos and Emperor, or whatever alignment. If it's human, than it's still human!

The Eldar know how to survive after their tremendous trial and error cycle. In the long run they'd stick together to survive as a species. The humans are still on this trial and error system, still too naive to realize that even though there may be mutations, a human is still a human!

The Orks, since theres so many of them, well, they just don't give a feth. But when they DO give a feth, and decide to unite as brothers... lol watch out!

The Tau are just starting to go through this "trial and error" cycle of life that most other species have or are currently going through - distrust among their own race.

The Necrons have been there, done that, and then some.

Even the Tyranids turn on each other when the synapse link falters....

When the synapse link falters, races turn on their own kind! It is the ultimate form of control, to turn brother against brother. JUST AS PLANNED MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! The gods feast on the squirming of the simpletones!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/02 02:14:46


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All for the hunt to dominate. 
   
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they probably distinguish them as the filthy xenos that will shoot you in the back after the battle, and the filthy xenos that will rip the skin off your back during a battle...
   
Made in us
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine




My secret fortress at the base of the volcano!

Does the Imperium make a distinction between CWE and DE? Absolutely.

Does the average Imperial citizen (planetary governor, guardsman, factory worker, voidship crewman) make a distinction? Absolutely not.

There are arms of the IoM that make the distinction, because they have the knowledge to do so (Ordos Xenos in particular but most Ordos probably have an understanding, Space Marines Chapter Masters, High Lords of Terra) and there is the vast bulk of the population which is deliberately kept ignorant, fearful, and racist. Most people don't know anything about Eldar culture, so they don't even know there are such things as 'craftworlds' for CWE to come from. Liekwise, they don't know that there are less violently psychopathic Eldar than the Dark Eldar, so they wouldn't bother to classify the spiky, psycho Eldar as 'Dark'. All Edlar are Eldar; deceitful, violent, untrustworthy, strange, and inscrutable.

Now, the people in charge of the IoM have knowledge, and that knowledge lets them understand that some Eldar are more likely to make balloon animals out of your intestines than others. They understand that, in the long run, having the Eldar around causes more problems for Chaos than it does for the Imperium. They understand that sometimes it's okay to work with a filthy alien if that filthy alien is going to be shooting at the same guy you are going to be shooting at, too. And they know that some Eldar travel in Craftworlds and are noticeably less psychotic than the ones from the spiky city in the Webway (they are still dangerous, just less psychotic). But those people are in the minority in the IoM. However, since they are the minority that hold positions of power within the IoM, they are able to make the distinction between CWE and DE, and by extention, so is the IoM as a political entity.

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Made in us
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Beijing, China

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, but only the very high commanding officers will know there is a difference. And even then the difference won't really change how they treat Eldar.

Remember that even Craftworld Eldar often become pirates and renegades. True proper Craftworlders aren't going to be encountered very often. its usually going to be Eldar and Dark Eldar pirates 99% of the time. Except from the occasional Craftworld who is acting under the precognition of a Farseer. In which case they're still going to be hostile most of the time.




Beyond that, the CWE and DE codexes represent extremes. Most eldar fall on some sort of good/evil spectrum, in many cases even Xeno inquisitors cannot tell the difference.

Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




West Midlands (UK)

Space Wolves certainly like to paaaaty with Craftworld Eldar in their Great Halls around a good fire. However, they tend to butcher Sisters of Battle and Dark Eldar on sight, so I am not sure they can tell the differences.

   
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Beijing, China

 Zweischneid wrote:
Space Wolves certainly like to paaaaty with Craftworld Eldar in their Great Halls around a good fire. However, they tend to butcher Sisters of Battle and Dark Eldar on sight, so I am not sure they can tell the differences.


How do they tell the difference? Perhaps they ask? Or they go by the color of the armor?

If they tell in usual space wolf fashion of just going with their gut and perhaps being wrong half the time then yes, I bet they can tell.

Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++  
   
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Gak is gak, regardless of the colour.
   
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Storming Storm Guardian




Missouri, USA

Most people posting here are right. Specifically, the fluff on the Imperium liking (used in the loosest sense possible) CWE but not really knowing who's who is mentioned in both CWE and DE Single-Page-Fluff Inserts in the BRB. There it says the 'the more learned in the Imperium realize that the bulk of the Eldar are more often allies..." and ' [for the Imperium] there is little to distinguish between ... CWE, Corsairs and DE' as well as that the majority of Mankind thinks the Eldar are just rumors. It also states that the DE actions just reinforce the IoM's views that all Xenos are bad, the DE know they're hurting Human-Eldar Relations and the DE find it hilarious.

As for the 'learned Ordo Xenos,' I once read that they think that the Exodites are the natural, devolved social state of Eldar, when in reality they're more akin to space-Amish.

A friend of mine once told me that the IoM currently has a cease fire agreement with the CWE, something that I didn't believe until I read it... only once. The shock of which made me remember it. Perhaps someone can tell me where I read it, as the shock of it also struck it's location from my mind. I've always pictured the IoM as such a huge bureaucracy that the 'left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing' so it's very possible (in my opinion) for there to be a treaty and for the IoM to ignore it (thus proving the humans' inferiority once more).

The funny thing is, the Tau also have a problem telling the Eldar apart. In the 6th Ed Tau Codex, after Eldar Raiders trolled the Tau, the Tau went on to blow up an Exodite World in revenge. This really PO'd the CWE, who have a strained relationships with the Tau to this day. Once again (similar to the BRB DE Fluff Page) I imagine the DE just pointed and laughed, even if it doesn't explicitly say they were involved.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/27 12:29:43


~2500 Altansar Eldar
~500 Dal'yth Tau 
   
Made in fi
Confessor Of Sins




 Farseer Morlengal wrote:
A friend of mine once told me that the IoM currently has a cease fire agreement with the CWE, something that I didn't believe until I read it...


I'm not sure I'd call the current state of affairs an official cease-fire agreement. It's more like live-and-let-live - the Eldar know the IoM keeps Chaos (and many other nasties) off them by being such a huge blundering behemoth, and the IoM can't spare resources on fighting a species that at least most of the time keeps out of the way or even helps against Chaos. The IoM might like to get rid of them but losing whole sector fleets on stamping out an annoyance is less important than using those fleets to take out Tyranids.
   
Made in gb
Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch





avoiding the lorax on Crion

 Farseer Morlengal wrote:
Most people posting here are right. Specifically, the fluff on the Imperium liking (used in the loosest sense possible) CWE but not really knowing who's who is mentioned in both CWE and DE Single-Page-Fluff Inserts in the BRB. There it says the 'the more learned in the Imperium realize that the bulk of the Eldar are more often allies..." and ' [for the Imperium] there is little to distinguish between ... CWE, Corsairs and DE' as well as that the majority of Mankind thinks the Eldar are just rumors. It also states that the DE actions just reinforce the IoM's views that all Xenos are bad, the DE know they're hurting Human-Eldar Relations and the DE find it hilarious.

As for the 'learned Ordo Xenos,' I once read that they think that the Exodites are the natural, devolved social state of Eldar, when in reality they're more akin to space-Amish.

A friend of mine once told me that the IoM currently has a cease fire agreement with the CWE, something that I didn't believe until I read it... only once. The shock of which made me remember it. Perhaps someone can tell me where I read it, as the shock of it also struck it's location from my mind. I've always pictured the IoM as such a huge bureaucracy that the 'left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing' so it's very possible (in my opinion) for there to be a treaty and for the IoM to ignore it (thus proving the humans' inferiority once more).

The funny thing is, the Tau also have a problem telling the Eldar apart. In the 6th Ed Tau Codex, after Eldar Raiders trolled the Tau, the Tau went on to blow up an Exodite World in revenge. This really PO'd the CWE, who have a strained relationships with the Tau to this day. Once again (similar to the BRB DE Fluff Page) I imagine the DE just pointed and laughed, even if it does explicitly say they were involved.


The tau certainly have a lot to learn about the universe, eldar 101 how to tell the difference between the sadistic tourture lovers and the craftworld varaity who are still a bit messed up and think most races are primitive.

Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.

"May the odds be ever in your favour"

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
Made in cz
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant




Czech Republic

Filthy Xenos Scum. Purge the Alien!!!

(except the part when you can use him...after that PURGE THE ALIEN!)

Oh...he has same pointy ears, just likes more BDSM than the other ones? Sad Inquisitor Day :(

OK, more seriously. Ordo Xenos, Imperial Intelligence, high ranking officers will know the difference. But it WONT MAKE a difference. Its still xenos scum. You can make for the time alliance of convenience, but after that...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/27 17:58:32


Being optimistic“s worthless if it means ignoring the suffering of this world. Worse than worthless. It“s bloody evil.
- Fiddler 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




It does make some difference. There's a noticeable difference between where CE fall on the allies matrix for almost all Imperial factions compared to DE.
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

 Exergy wrote:
 Zweischneid wrote:
Space Wolves certainly like to paaaaty with Craftworld Eldar in their Great Halls around a good fire. However, they tend to butcher Sisters of Battle and Dark Eldar on sight, so I am not sure they can tell the differences.


How do they tell the difference? Perhaps they ask? Or they go by the color of the armor?

If they tell in usual space wolf fashion of just going with their gut and perhaps being wrong half the time then yes, I bet they can tell.


It's simple. CE have smooth, Micorsoft plastic-y armour (think Star Trek). DE have spiky bits all over them. Kinda like CSM.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
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The majority of Imperial forces seem unable to tell the difference between the two (hence the occasional classification of Eldar Corsairs.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/27 23:04:43


 
   
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Frostbite Falls

Well, some Craftworld Eldar take to wandering the stars as Corsairs before returning home and getting a real job.
   
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Storming Storm Guardian




Missouri, USA

If BL Novels are any indication (and I know that they aren't), some DE get sick of the back-stabbing and become Corsairs as well. They almost are their own faction, where even the Path of the Outcast (Rangers and Pathfinders) look at them and tell them to 'calm down with all that freedom.'

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Raleigh, NC

I find it absurd that people could dismiss the differences between Dark Eldar and CWE as "they're all just Space Pansies!" and at the same time talk about how different and unique each Space Marine is.

"No, see these are the Red Marines! They like blood, and are like vampires...oh and then there are the Wolf Marines, all of their names are a variation of the word 'wolf'...and that's just two of hundreds of different variation! "

I imagine the Imperium can differentiate between Dark Eldar and CWE. Does it get covered? No, not really, it's not super-awesome Space Marines, so who cares? Eldar have been a civilized culture for longer than the humanity has been colonizing space, but they serve mainly as a counter-position to the Imperium.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/28 17:38:38


 
   
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Inside Yvraine

False comparison. Space Marines can be distinguished the same way real life soldiers from different countries can be distinguished. We as Humans tend to pay attention to the differences within our culture.

Eldar are aliens, and the average Guardsmen will go their entire lives without seeing a single one, much less the Human NonCom populace. It would make sense for Humanity to not have enough familiarity with Eldar to make a distinction between CWE and Dark Eldar.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/28 18:04:49


 
   
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Raleigh, NC

Fair enough BlaxicanX.

I think I might have been focusing more on Imperial forces versus the Imperium as a whole. I feel like Imperial forces vary widely enough that a distinction would develop if there were interactions with both groups (or any in-between forces).

But as a whole, I can acknowledge that the Imperial bureaucracy does not make a distinction.
   
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 Farseer Morlengal wrote:
If BL Novels are any indication (and I know that they aren't), some DE get sick of the back-stabbing and become Corsairs as well. They almost are their own faction, where even the Path of the Outcast (Rangers and Pathfinders) look at them and tell them to 'calm down with all that freedom.'


Corsairs can officially be considered their own faction in some regards, because they even have their own separate army list (albeit Forgeworld). The fluff behind that list (and elsewhere where it turns up) makes it very explicit that their life styles are generally quite distinct from CWE and DE.

That said, it's also stated that such a life style is an extremely dangerous one. It's probably the most lethal of the lifestyles of the various type of Eldar, DE included, and that's saying a lot, because you don't have the protection of CWE's paths, exodites' low-key lifestyle, Caegarach, or DE's commaragh and torture-soul-sacrificing to protect you from Slaanesh, among other things.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/28 19:18:03


 
   
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It's pretty well covered. It's stated that few of the imperium know the difference. Not all space marines do. Just certain individuals.
   
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Beijing, China

jakejackjake wrote:
It's pretty well covered. It's stated that few of the imperium know the difference. Not all space marines do. Just certain individuals.


I think a good number of individuals understand there are good and bad eldar and that there are some eldar that live in craftworlds and do this and that while others live in some sort of extra dimensional place and do this and that.

That said, these individuals met one they might not be able to immidiately make the distinction.

DE like nothing more than deciving lessor races. Them being desperate allies with alot of the IoM probably has a lot to do with them acting a bit to form an alliance for what they want and then the alliance slowly being strained by the DE constantly torturing things, raping, pillaging, taking slaves, and sometimes posioning their allies.

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