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With Space Marine Rhinos, who exactly qualifies as the "crew?" I personally think that 2 marines man the Rhino. The driver and the navigator/gunner. These 2 marines are aspiring tech marines that are charged with driving their brother-marines into combat and fix whatever damage is done to the vehicle during combat.But others believe the squad occupying the Rhini drives and navigates and are responsible for its maintenance. Got any information?

Also, lets keep talk topic-related. Please no debating how many marines exist per chapter. This is purely to discuss Rhino crewman. Thanks in advance!

here we go.

Very descriptive

sorry, it's just that every time this happens, an argument occurs over how many marines are in a chapter. personally, I always assumed that depending on the chapter, it would either be three serfs. the squad inside wouldn't make sense, it can move without them in it.

On the other hand Rhinos are blessed with a not-too-shabby Machine Spirit. Those that don't trust Chapter serfs and don't have reserve marines to spare may well have the Rhino set to follow the Sergeant's commands either directly or within parameters he set before jumping out.

Spetulhu wrote:
On the other hand Rhinos are blessed with a not-too-shabby Machine Spirit. Those that don't trust Chapter serfs and don't have reserve marines to spare may well have the Rhino set to follow the Sergeant's commands either directly or within parameters he set before jumping out.

hmm, true that.
if we can keep this on rhino talk, this could be a nice thread.
*unlikely*

Yeah, that's what I said. A squad wouldn't leave a perfectly good Rhino behind to go accomplish their objective. As to how many marines are in a Chapter, it's really non-debatable. In short, the crew counts as staff in organization. There are always over 1,000 men per chapter. Serfs manning a Rhino? That would sound believable but then nobody will be able to maintain battle damage in combat. I will look into that though, I won't dig it up this early.

This drove me nuts quite a few times, but I finally managed to find my way out by going with "Chapters are 1000 Marines actually means Chapters have 1000 Marines in the Tactical, Devastator, and Assault Squads; plus command staff, Scouts, Veterans and Vehicle operators it's actually a lot more."

'Course, my Chapter is an Imperial Fists Successor, so I can simply say It's not a Codex-compliant Chapter and call it a day.

 Lord-Captain Cepinari wrote:
This drove me nuts quite a few times, but I finally managed to find my way out by going with "Chapters are 1000 Marines actually means Chapters have 1000 Marines in the Tactical, Devastator, and Assault Squads; plus command staff, Scouts, Veterans and Vehicle operators it's actually a lot more."

'Course, my Chapter is an Imperial Fists Successor, so I can simply say It's not a Codex-compliant Chapter and call it a day.

IIRC, they actually don't count scouts as space marines, and last I checked the Ultramarines organization chart including vehicles adds up to a neat 1,000 Astartes.

In the 4e Codex they list the Rhino as having a crew of one Space Marine.

I always assumed it was one marine who does the navigation and, if there are marines to spare, a gunner (though usually the gun would be controlled by a machine spirit or remotely by the driver).

My two cents

Any marine with a driving license could qualify as rhino crew.
-> Rhino = 1 Marine

But Razorback = 2 Marines Most variants need 2 marines.
Only the Rhino got the self repair at 6+ . But the fluff says the decision of the fate of the basic hull isn't automatically "rhino" , so funnily if they make a predator instead of a basic rhino it can't repair itself ....

The Land Raiders use a advanced machine spirit and don't need a crew. The option to add a "machine spirit" to act like a Land Raider was there in C: BT but isn't available anymore. A "autopilot" is imaginable for the standard rhino, a bit more like a simple minded servitor. Programmed " goto " functions and self defense maybe.

The Rhino isn't a "Space Marine only" vehicle, IST and SoB could drive them too. All you need someone to drive.

Arbites use Rhino chassis vehicles too.

 1hadhq wrote:
But Razorback = 2 Marines Most variants need 2 marines.

The 4e Marine Codex lists the Razorback as being crewed with one Marine as well.
Vindicators, Predators, and Whirlwinds have two.
Land Raiders have three.

So how about inquisition? Their acolytes are bs3 and their rhinos are bs4...

Poly Ranger wrote:
So how about inquisition? Their acolytes are bs3 and their rhinos are bs4...

Servitors slaved to guns or computer-targeting systems?

Servitors are normally BS2.

Probably Arbites or Stormtrooper crews.

Animus wrote:

 1hadhq wrote:
But Razorback = 2 Marines Most variants need 2 marines.

The 4e Marine Codex lists the Razorback as being crewed with one Marine as well.
Vindicators, Predators, and Whirlwinds have two.
Land Raiders have three.

Some Razorbacks don't look like 1 marine is enough.....

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Servitors are normally BS2.

Probably Arbites or Stormtrooper crews.

Difference between gun servitors and average servitors IIRC

 1hadhq wrote:
Some Razorbacks don't look like 1 marine is enough.....

Unless the Marine is capable of driving from there.

Classicly, Rhinos were driven by marines as a punishment, and they were hard wired into them.

Chaos Rhinos have hard wired daemonic servitors as crew members. Maybe regular marines can use hard wired un daemonic servitors instead.

I always figured they had like trainee tech-marines manning the wheel and a regular brother manning the gun. And that's why the only tech-marines you see on the field of battle is HQ-tier.

According to imperial Armour 2 from Forge World, the rino has only a driver as crew, with a ten man squad nine stay in the back and the sergeant uses the stormbolter. In the case of the razorback, the book mentions that while some older variants have a crewed gun, the new versions use a remote gun reducing the crew from two to one (just the driver). It even states the benefit of this with respect to the low numbers of manpower available to the space marines. Predators, whirlwinds and vindicators all have both a driver and a gunner. Landraiders have a driver and a commander and use an advance machinespirit to help the commander guide the weapons.

Note, this is all from a book that was written during 4ed so much may have changed.

 marv335 wrote:
Classicly, Rhinos were driven by marines as a punishment, and they were hard wired into them.

Source?

If I had to guess, I'd say it was back when people played Zoats.

The official info seems to point to dedicated transports like Rhinos and Razorbacks being driven by the squad being transported, while all other vehicles are driven by marines attached to the Armory(Land Raiders, Predators, Whirlwinds, etc...)

Fluff is of course =/= Rules because these vehicles can move while the entire squad is outside.


But it could easily vary from chapter to chapter. Heck, they could have Initiates do all the driving and ferry their elder Brothers into the fight.

My chapter's doctrine has each Company having its own dedicated drivers who aren't part of the individual squads but make up the Moter Pool which is a subsection of the Armory.

Source?

It's reaaaaly old White Dwarf material that then got reprinted in a Compendium, which I actually own!. As in, from back when the first Predator Kits came out in the late 80's. Even the Compendium is circa 1989.

"Some crewmen, as a punishment for insubordination, are hardwired into their vehicles and only released after an exceptional show of valor".

But obviously that's woefully out of date.

 marv335 wrote:
Classicly, Rhinos were driven by marines as a punishment, and they were hard wired into them.

I find that hard to believe. I have never heard of that type of punishment. Death oaths are usually the one and only way for a marine to restore his honour.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AegisGrimm wrote:

Source?

It's reaaaaly old White Dwarf material that then got reprinted in a Compendium, which I actually own!. As in, from back when the first Predator Kits came out in the late 80's. Even the Compendium is circa 1989.

"Some crewmen, as a punishment for insubordination, are hardwired into their vehicles and only released after an exceptional show of valor".

But obviously that's woefully out of date.

Ah, this would be before my time then.

No proof on this but my theory would be that they use injured battle brothers that would be taken off the books to pilot their vehicles, like a dreadnought but not as severely wounded. Like I'm healing and still want to fight let me drive the rhino lol