Why doesn't Forgeworld take over the Sisters of Battle line?

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**pretre**

ClockworkZion wrote:
I guess I'm just frustrated because FW has had the chance to do stuff for years and the means to do so and hasn't.

Replace FW with GW and you have the experience of all SOB players for the last 15 years.

edit: Fixed date because duh.

**streamdragon**

Wiki says Repressor first showed up in Imperial Armor 2. I don't follow FW enough to know where that fits into other SoB releases, but I'm pretty sure it was before the Organ Exorcist was released.

**ZebioLizard2**

ClockworkZion wrote:
I can't remember where the Repressor fits into the grand scheme of things. I'd have to hunt down old books online to be sure honestly.

At this point though we have yet to see anything Sisters related despite the fact that an IA book on a Shrine World would be VERY fitting for the setting (and would allow them to do more interesting Traitor Guard stuff if they so wanted, or maybe Orks or CSM).

I guess I'm just frustrated because FW has had the chance to do stuff for years and the means to do so and hasn't.

Along with more Ecclessiarchy based things

**ClockworkZion**

pretre wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
I guess I'm just frustrated because FW has had the chance to do stuff for years and the means to do so and hasn't.

Replace FW with GW and you have the experience of all SOB players for the last 25 years.

Sisters players didn't exist until 2nd Edition (no army) so that's only about ~20 years, plus they got stuff in 2nd and 3rd so we're only looking post that (starting with 4th) so.... from 2003-2014 at the moment, oo the last 11 years. Of which I played the last 5.

I don't count 5th and 6th in there as updates because they've removed models and didn't really do anything to shake things up for the army.

**pretre**

IA2 was 2001. Witch Hunters was 2004.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Sisters players didn't exist until 2nd Edition (no army) so that's only about ~20 years, plus they got stuff in 2nd and 3rd so we're only looking post that (starting with 4th) so.... from 2003-2014 at the moment, oo the last 11 years. Of which I played the last 5.

I don't count 5th and 6th in there as updates because they've removed models and didn't really do anything to shake things up for the army.

I meant 15 (1998). Having played for all that time, we have been saying much the same since the second edition codex (which was invalidated within a year of release by 3rd).

**ClockworkZion**

pretre wrote:
IA2 was 2001. Witch Hunters was 2004.

Well I stand corrected on the aesthetics of the vehicles, but I still stand that FW has had a long time to give Sisters love (how many variant Marine chapters have they done now?[/i] and haven't. So I'm still disappointed with them regardless.

**pretre**

Disappointment is a SOB player's bread and butter.

**ClockworkZion**

pretre wrote:
IA2 was 2001. Witch Hunters was 2004.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Sisters players didn't exist until 2nd Edition (no army) so that's only about ~20 years, plus they got stuff in 2nd and 3rd so we're only looking post that (starting with 4th) so.... from 2003-2014 at the moment, oo the last 11 years. Of which I played the last 5.

I don't count 5th and 6th in there as updates because they've removed models and didn't really do anything to shake things up for the army.

I meant 15 (1998). Having played for all that time, we have been saying much the same since the second edition codex (which was invalidated within a year of release by 3rd).

3rd gave us Storm Troopers which there were many people playing, and an allies system (that was removed in 5th) so it's not like Sisters had no love in 3rd. Heck some of our models come from 3rd as that was the last model update our army saw.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

pretre wrote:
Disappointment is a SOB player's bread and butter.

That's why the acronym isn't just for the name of the army, it's for the sound we make everytime GW screws them over some more.

**pretre**

ClockworkZion wrote:
I meant 15 (1998). Having played for all that time, we have been saying much the same since the second edition codex (which was invalidated within a year of release by 3rd).

3rd gave us Storm Troopers which there were many people playing, and an allies system (that was removed in 5th) so it's not like Sisters had no love in 3rd. Heck some of our models come from 3rd as that was the last model update our army saw.

**ClockworkZion**

When don't Sisters players feel marginalized and unloved? It's like a requirement to play the army. Well that and massive amounts blind faith that it'll actually get updated someday before you die of old age.

**Troike**

n0t_u wrote:
One of the excuses that floated around was the apparent difficulty they were having with the positioning of the sleeves (in regards to keeping the kit dynamic) which we should all know is just utter rubbish looking at how static some of the recent kit releases tend to be.

We don't actually know if this remains an issue. It certainly was considered one previously, as two developers referenced it as such on seperate occasions. They may have found a workaround of some sort by now. One source claimed that they said as much at Enter the Citadel, but I want to hear another source saying something similar before I believed that.

n0t_u wrote:
The real reason is they will not bother sculpting up new models because of the sales numbers

This point gets made a lot, but I just don't see it as particularly valid. If this is purely how GW operated, then the Dark Eldar update should never have happened. Secondly, and most crucially, the AS digital codex appears to have sold well, getting a bestsellers spot on iBooks. Clear evidence that there is ample demand for the Sisters.

n0t_u wrote:
Truly the only reason they have not dropped them completely at the moment is likely the fear of the backlash from the Squats.

Another point I see fairly often, but don't really agree with. If this is true, then why bother trying to make plastics of them at all? And I think that GW is fairly willing to take measures that may annoy people anyway, so I doubt that they're so completely terrified of customer backlash as to let it dictate their actions.

**SagesStone**

ClockworkZion wrote:
n0t_u wrote:
Then what was the point of bringing up the similarities of metal and resin casting?

To point out that FW couldn't claim "casting issues" as a reason they wouldn't update the Sisters.

"Sculptor issues"
Sales number issues
Interest issues

Not once have I heard of casting issues. In fact they really should be non-existent otherwise they're doing something very wrong with them.

ClockworkZion wrote:
n0t_u wrote:
The only reason one ever does that is to lead on to finecast. Resin is actually capable of a bit more than metal, but not if it's treated the same as metal and they just pass off the same molds as they've done with a majority of finecast releases. One of the excuses that floated around was the apparent difficulty they were having with the positioning of the sleeves (in regards to keeping the kit dynamic) which we should all know is just utter rubbish looking at how static some of the recent kit releases tend to be. The real reason is they will not bother sculpting up new models because of the sales numbers just yet therefore the only way we'd get the resin sisters is through finecast; something I'm legitimately surprised, but grateful, they never did. Really I think the lack of promotion for the range is the real reason behind a lot of the sales; its not uncommon to find players who have never ever seen a sister of battle before. Truly the only reason they have not dropped them completely at the moment is likely the fear of the backlash from the Squats.

Finecast was a joke. It's resin with some kind of cheap filler and while it saved GW money on materials it's cost them a lot more in QA and customer satisfaction. And while they've gotten better (I've got a Finecast Kahn on my desk who looks quite good honestly and has no defects) the end result costs GW more than it saved. I'm glad it's going away..

I'm not arguing with you there on the quality™ of finecast. I've only ever had one alright finecast model, which I had looked through around 5 of which first to find then cut off the head and converted the thing anyway.

It's just how many years have GW not halfassed a SoB related release in some way? So if they were to go to resin that is unfortunately where they'd go. I'd much rather just have a plastic kit instead of some FW adaptation as I'd prefer to work with plastic over resin.

**pepe5454**

I would start a sisters army in a second if they had affordable plastic kits. A box of troops costs $90 or you can buy everything one model at a time. Even if I used the chinese rip offs it would cost me more than any other army to build (except the FW exorcists those are dirt cheap from china). I have maybe 20 metal sisters but have been sitting on them hoping for an actual codex and more affordable models for years now. Maybe I will proxy some of those toughest girls in the galaxy models or something.

**pretre**

pepe5454 wrote:
I would start a sisters army in a second if they had affordable plastic kits. A box of troops costs $90 or you can buy everything one model at a time. Even if I used the chinese rip offs it would cost me more than any other army to build (except the FW exorcists those are dirt cheap from china). I have maybe 20 metal sisters but have been sitting on them hoping for an actual codex and more affordable models for years now. Maybe I will proxy some of those toughest girls in the galaxy models or something.

Buy used.

There's plenty of people selling at 40-60% of retail for sisters.

**ClockworkZion**

n0t_u wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
n0t_u wrote:
Then what was the point of bringing up the similarities of metal and resin casting?

To point out that FW couldn't claim "casting issues" as a reason they wouldn't update the Sisters.

"Sculptor issues"
Sales number issues
Interest issues

Not once have I heard of casting issues. In fact they really should be non-existent otherwise they're doing something very wrong with them.

There were issues with casting mentioned at Enter the Citadel and the Games Day right after that (no I don't recall which one right this second, it was last year). Plastic has different requirements for casting and the current Sisters design utilizes a lot of undercuts in both the major details as well as a lot of smaller ones (such as the fluer-de-lys) requiring the model to be broken down differently, and likely into smaller parts to make it work.

And then there are the sleeves issues where they were trying to figure out how to let people repose the arms without making the sleeves look weird.

The last two are bean counter issues that frankly I don't see being that high of a hurdle anymore. Dark Eldar, Necrons and Grey Knights were all old armies (two of which were all metal) that sold well after they were updated proving that there should be a market for older armies.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

pretre wrote:
3rd gave us a number of new sculpts, penitent engines and 2 new vehicles along with shoe-horning inquisition in.

Third edition gave use the second best model in the whole line (sorry Celestine, you come after the bolter-aiming VSS… but really, if only because of size, you still make a much better centerpiece for the army !), our only character capable of really kicking ass and taking names all by itself in the lore, inferno pistols IIRC, and the goddamn rocket-launching tank-mounted church organ ! That was pretty cool. More would have been even better, but that was cool still. Also the Liber Sororitas was a very very nice source of fluff, that should really have been in the codex rather than in a White Dwarf to make it more easily accessible to future players.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Johnnytorrance wrote:
This makes sense, the hobby is played by a huge majority of male players. I know there are women players, I'm sure there are, but I don't know any.

Yeah, because women always play women, and men always play men, or green monsters, or mixed-gender and likely sexually-confused space elves, or robots. But sure as hell women play only women, not robots or space elves. And likely, no man ever plays women, ever.

**MWHistorian**

An expensive all metal army with a very limited range of models that are older than most players and doesn't have a proper codex update.
Hmmm...no, it has to be that there aren't enough women players. Clearly.

What? The digital codex was an iBooks best seller? No, that must be a mistake. No one's interested.

**ClockworkZion**

I've gotten some good news and bad news very recently. In short: there is support in the studio for Sisters, but no it doesn't look like there will be any progress on them for a release this year as the people who worked on the digital codex aren't going to jump back into working on them right away. And that's probably the most I can safely say.

**MWHistorian**

ClockworkZion wrote:
I've gotten some good news and bad news very recently. In short: there is support in the studio for Sisters, but no it doesn't look like there will be any progress on them for a release this year as the people who worked on the digital codex aren't going to jump back into working on them right away. And that's probably the most I can safely say.

GW isn't interested in doing anything with Sisters? How is that news?

**pretre**

Safest rumor ever: No updates for Sisters this year.

**ClockworkZion**

MWHistorian wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
I've gotten some good news and bad news very recently. In short: there is support in the studio for Sisters, but no it doesn't look like there will be any progress on them for a release this year as the people who worked on the digital codex aren't going to jump back into working on them right away. And that's probably the most I can safely say.

GW isn't interested in doing anything with Sisters? How is that news?

You're intentionally misreading things there to make it sound worse. From what I understand because the just did a codex (yes the digital one) they're not ready to do another codex just yet. It doesn't mean they won't do one, it just means that they need to let ideas mature before they go launching into a new book for the same army.

And confirmation of studio support should be considered news with how often people claim the studio hates the army.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

pretre wrote:
Safest rumor ever: No updates for Sisters this year.

Aye, if I were to call it a rumor, I was figuring it was more of a confirmation of our fears.

And "safest rumor ever" would be "GW does something to piss off fans".

**streamdragon**

They've had "studio support" (we got to see Cruddace's half complete army! -_-) , but that doesn't mean the actual decision makers care about them.

I'm reminded sharply of the exec who "has a personal vendetta with Genestealers" or somesuch. I can imagine that the studio is all about them, but that doesn't mean the number cruncher isn't sitting there going "little boys won't buy these, we won't make as much as if we update (insert other army here)".

**ClockworkZion**

streamdragon wrote:
They've had "studio support" (we got to see Cruddace's half complete army! -_-) , but that doesn't mean the actual decision makers care about them.

It's not Cruddace that I'm talking about for "Studio Support". Needless to say that he's not a lone individual in the army's corner and the response I got was that there is a feeling that the setting (if not the game) needs more female protagonists than it currently has. So there is support, even if it's just along the lines of "we need more awesome chicks doing awesome stuff".

streamdragon wrote:
I'm reminded sharply of the exec who "has a personal vendetta with Genestealers" or somesuch. I can imagine that the studio is all about them, but that doesn't mean the number cruncher isn't sitting there going "little boys won't buy these, we won't make as much as if we update (insert other army here)".

And that's possible.

**mwnciboo**

I would imagine they would do "Sisters of Silence" before they ever touch the Sisters of battle.

If memory serves Sisters of Battle are a Warhammer 35k invention post the "VANDIRE HERESY".

Therefore I don't Imagine FW releasing anything that doesn't fit in the 30K Universe for the foreseeable future.

24 months time it might be different, they are making so much Money from PRE-HERESY and the LEGIONS I cannot imagine them spending hundreds of hours on Sisters, when they could do all of the other Legion Characters and elements.

**ClockworkZion**

mwnciboo wrote:
I would imagine they would do "Sisters of Silence" before they ever touch the Sisters of battle.

I think that's a given with the whole Heresy series.

mwnciboo wrote:
If memory serves Sisters of Battle are a Warhammer 35k invention post the "VANDIRE HERESY".

Pretty much.

mwnciboo wrote:
Therefore I don't Imagine FW releasing anything that doesn't fit in the 30K Universe for the foreseeable future.

They said that since the first trilogy of books is now complete they can ease up a bit on Heresy stuff. I don't see it staying that way for too long.

mwnciboo wrote:
24 months time it might be different, they are making so much Money from PRE-HERESY and the LEGIONS I cannot imagine them spending hundreds of hours on Sisters, when they could do all of the other Legion Characters and elements.

Again, with them doing the Heresy stuff, it's a given that they'll basically need to do that now.

**cammy**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Because the Main Dev team still wants it for one reason or another.

Then again I don't think FW "gets" Sisters as a force. I mean their Exorcists is a Whirlwind with round missile launchers. It lacks the flash and grand over-the-top nature we associated with the Ecclesiarchy.

So yeah, unless they learn how to do Sisters stuff that doesn't look like Marines stuff I don't think I want them doing Sisters.

I'm not a big fan of over the top grandiose, i actually prefer to use the sisters rhino but use the exorcist missiles from FW. Have 3 of them knocking around somewhere

**MWHistorian**

Is making a paper copy of the SOB codex "jumping back into it?" I know pressing the "print" button is hard work. Gotta give them a year for that project. GW does love the "Ctrl C, Ctrl P" buttons though.

**ClockworkZion**

MWHistorian wrote:
Is making a paper copy of the SOB codex "jumping back into it?" I know pressing the "print" button is hard work. Gotta give them a year for that project. GW does love the "Ctrl C, Ctrl P" buttons though.

That's not what I was talking about, and the possibility of that still remains. What I was talking about was the possibility/hopes of a NEW codex in the works, not them printing the one they just made.

I don't have any information on if that's going to print, I was just saying that a 6.5 Ed Sisters codex with new models is not in the works for this year and we're looking at next year at the earliest. Which frankly I think sucks a little because I wanted to see it come out late 2014. Now I'm looking at late 2015 at the soonest I can expect it.

Good thing I'm starting a second army after all I guess.

**Troike**

MWHistorian wrote:
What? The digital codex was an iBooks best seller? No, that must be a mistake. No one's interested.

I think you're laying it on a tad too thick with the cynicism, bud. I think it's highly doubtful that GW is going to ignore sales out of some sort of spite. This is definitely something in favour of the Sisters, it ain't all bad.

**Johnnytorrance**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
pretre wrote:
3rd gave us a number of new sculpts, penitent engines and 2 new vehicles along with shoe-horning inquisition in.

Third edition gave use the second best model in the whole line (sorry Celestine, you come after the bolter-aiming VSS… but really, if only because of size, you still make a much better centerpiece for the army !), our only character capable of really kicking ass and taking names all by itself in the lore, inferno pistols IIRC, and the goddamn rocket-launching tank-mounted church organ ! That was pretty cool. More would have been even better, but that was cool still. Also the Liber Sororitas was a very very nice source of fluff, that should really have been in the codex rather than in a White Dwarf to make it more easily accessible to future players.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Johnnytorrance wrote:
This makes sense, the hobby is played by a huge majority of male players. I know there are women players, I'm sure there are, but I don't know any.

Yeah, because women always play women, and men always play men, or green monsters, or mixed-gender and likely sexually-confused space elves, or robots. But sure as hell women play only women, not robots or space elves. And likely, no man ever plays women, ever.

That's not what I'm saying doofus. Even if there were plastic models, unless it was OP like Tau and elder, it would still most likely be the least played army. It is now, and it would be then. If GW hasn't gotten to producing it yet it's probably because they know something and they aren't willing to invest in it right now.