Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It's not bad for the price, I would have liked to have seen it gain a rule like:

Close support aircraft: The Vendetta is built to support troops on the ground more than fight other aircraft. If cannot choose to have the Skyfire rule like other flyers.

That way, we can open the door for some other AA instead (Hydra or better yet, make the Thunderbolt stop sucking balls).

It should certainly have Strafing Run, and the Thunderbolt should be BS4, or something like that.

Panzer1944 wrote:Well until they give us a tank that can do some decent damage to Riptides, Wraithknights, and other monstrous creatures it’s really the only thing in the IG arsenal that can do heavy damage in a single turn

That is so not true. Properly-kitted vanquishers, punishers, and executioners all do more damage (well, not punishers to wraithknights, but otherwise...). And russes are much better because they start shooting turn 1 instead of turn whenever they arrive, and they're more durable, and they won't be constantly losing their targets due to having to make 90 degree turns or flying off the board all the time.

ausYenLoWang wrote:yeah give the helldrake the option of a hades that works like 3 TL LC and a transport capacity OR the flamer, guess what people would take? the "hades" might see some use rather than NEVER.

The helldrake also has demon, demonforge, IWND, and vector strike.

Of course, the vendetta is still better, but that's a product of the helldrake being a lot worse than a lot of people seem to think.

The Crimson Hunter is 10 points cheaper.

Let's compare them.

BS4 vs BS3

AV10 - 10 - 10 vs AV12 - 12 - 10

x2 S8 AP2 36" Lance + x2 S8 AP2 48" vs x3 S9 AP2 T-L 48" + x3 S5 AP4 36"

10 Points for superior guns vs most targets, much more armoured and a transport capacity. Yeah the Vendetta sucks now, better not take any.

 Zande4 wrote:
The Crimson Hunter is 10 points cheaper.

Let's compare them.

BS4 vs BS3

AV10 - 10 - 10 vs AV12 - 12 - 10

x2 S8 AP2 36" Lance + x2 S8 AP2 48" vs x3 S9 AP2 T-L 48" + x3 S5 AP4 36"

10 Points for superior guns vs most targets, much more armoured and a transport capacity. Yeah the Vendetta sucks now, better not take any.

To be fair though, a stiff breeze will shoot down a Crimson Hunter... but it'll shoot down a Vendetta either way if it gets the first shot.

I find it very amusing that some people hesitate to pay 170 for the Vendetta, when marines have been paying 200+ for the same basic capability for some time now.

But marine versions of flyers can shot at two targets. I offten had those flying land raiders come in after my vendetas showed up and put bolters and twin AC in to one of my vendetas and the other one with a MM and blow up or stun both. before I could do the same with vendettas at more or less the same points and lucky reserv rolls. now 2 vendettas cost more then one storm raven .

Makumba wrote:
But marine versions of flyers can shot at two targets. I offten had those flying land raiders come in after my vendetas showed up and put bolters and twin AC in to one of my vendetas and the other one with a MM and blow up or stun both. before I could do the same with vendettas at more or less the same points and lucky reserv rolls. now 2 vendettas cost more then one storm raven .

You were very unlucky. Splitting fire on the stormraven is statistically quite poor, especially against the #1 target, the helldrake.

Two Vendettas have always cost more than one Stormraven. And I still think the Stormraven is overcosted. AV 12 does not equal "flying land raider". You can kill them pretty quickly with plain old S7 hits by hull pointing them out. The Stormraven is still paying for a lot of extraneous crap it doesn't need.

 Sidstyler wrote:
The vendetta shouldn't have the same capacity as the valkyrie, because it needs the space for the three twin-linked lascannon batteries.

And, once again, this contradicts the model. The Vendetta model clearly has external battery packs for the lascannons and the exact same transport space as the Valkyrie. This is a game balance change, nothing more.

Martel732 wrote:

Makumba wrote:
But marine versions of flyers can shot at two targets. I offten had those flying land raiders come in after my vendetas showed up and put bolters and twin AC in to one of my vendetas and the other one with a MM and blow up or stun both. before I could do the same with vendettas at more or less the same points and lucky reserv rolls. now 2 vendettas cost more then one storm raven .

You were very unlucky. Splitting fire on the stormraven is statistically quite poor, especially against the #1 target, the helldrake.

Two Vendettas have always cost more than one Stormraven. And I still think the Stormraven is overcosted. AV 12 does not equal "flying land raider". You can kill them pretty quickly with plain old S7 hits by hull pointing them out. The Stormraven is still paying for a lot of extraneous crap it doesn't need.

Not to mention that the Stormraven's not so good that the Guard have to field 2 Vendettas to compete... that's just madness.

. You can kill them pretty quickly with plain old S7 hits by hull pointing them out.

Which str 7 weapons . I have str 6 on scater lasers and str 9 on lascannons . I do take a quad gun , but it can't hull point a storm raven in a single turn reliable enough. If I take hvy weapon squads with Autocannons they will just die because GW decided to make them bad.

Two Vendettas have always cost more than one Stormraven.

there is a huge difference between one costing around 240pts and the other 260 , and vendettas going up to 340 .
Unless stuff gets a lot cheaper in the new codex , I won't be able to either take an aegis or coteaz or I will have to play with 2 vendettas . But then they get random in reservs and if one comes in it will die to interceptor units or flyers coming in second.

If you are guard, use Vendettas w/lascannon or sabre platforms and the Stormravens go bye-bye.

"Unless stuff gets a lot cheaper in the new codex , I won't be able to either take an aegis or coteaz or I will have to play with 2 vendettas ."

Boo hoo. Welcome to the insane choices that meq lists have to make every time we make a list. No sympathy for non-meq list s in 6th. That's how bad meqs are.

Sabers are FW and I am using vendettas as anti air . It gets harder to do if vendettas suddenly go 40pts up in cost .

And please you have no problems , Ignore Ld as a stat totaly , have troops that don't die to everything with great range and good weapons , don't die like in melee.

I can't even tar pit with vets a marine player can always send a beat up unit to draw someone away from an objective.

Meqs suck. I can show you by list trading with every Xeno list, including IG. If you think marines have "no problems", then probably most of your best players play marines. Because marines, out side of some death stars and biker builds, are a dumpster fire.

Martel732 wrote:
Meqs suck. I can show you by list trading with every Xeno list, including IG. If you think marines have "no problems", then probably most of your best players play marines. Because marines, out side of some death stars and biker builds, are a dumpster fire.

No chance. Meqs are considerably easier to kill these days granted but they still have a vast array of choice and viable builds available to them. They have a decent book. not crappy, nothing too stupid either. Just about right for me.

*Edit*

Back on topic. Until I have the new book in my hands I'll reserve judgment on the viability of the Vendetta. It also depends on how other things are going to be priced (Chimeras, Russes etc). Based on what I've read on here I'll still be taking my Vendetta. 170pts maybe a bit much but it most certainly needed to go up.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
The vendetta shouldn't have the same capacity as the valkyrie, because it needs the space for the three twin-linked lascannon batteries.

And, once again, this contradicts the model. The Vendetta model clearly has external battery packs for the lascannons and the exact same transport space as the Valkyrie. This is a game balance change, nothing more.

Maybe there is the space for the troops but every aircraft has a maximum take off weight --- just a hint from an engineer

@Topic: 170 is absolutely reasonable. Good job GW.!

 wildboar wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Meqs suck. I can show you by list trading with every Xeno list, including IG. If you think marines have "no problems", then probably most of your best players play marines. Because marines, out side of some death stars and biker builds, are a dumpster fire.

No chance. Meqs are considerably easier to kill these days granted but they still have a vast array of choice and viable builds available to them. They have a decent book. not crappy, nothing too stupid either. Just about right for me.

*Edit*

Back on topic. Until I have the new book in my hands I'll reserve judgment on the viability of the Vendetta. It also depends on how other things are going to be priced (Chimeras, Russes etc). Based on what I've read on here I'll still be taking my Vendetta. 170pts maybe a bit much but it most certainly needed to go up.

170 is not too much. Functionally, it is almost identical to the Stormraven, and should be priced as such.

MasterOfGaunts wrote:
Maybe there is the space for the troops but every aircraft has a maximum take off weight --- just a hint from an engineer

Yes, I know about weight and balance limits, but the lascannons shouldn't be that heavy compared to the other weapon options it can take on the same hardpoints. For example, the Valkyrie is perfectly capable of flying with two huge extra fuel tanks instead of lascannons and a pair of Sentinels in the passenger compartment.

It's AV is about all it shares with Stormraven. 12 models + Dreadnought capacity with Assault Vehicle rule put these 2 in different leagues. Even more so if the Vendettas capacity has been reduced to 6.

30pts difference between these 2. If Marines had direct access to Vendetta as well it would be a no brainer. But as I said I'm reserving judgment atm...

170pts? Yes, it is. Still strong kickin, for me, its fair price.
And the 6 men transport thing? Well, I can still stick my flamer PCS in it, so, OK here

 wildboar wrote:
It's AV is about all it shares with Stormraven. 12 models + Dreadnought capacity with Assault Vehicle rule put these 2 in different leagues. Even more so if the Vendettas capacity has been reduced to 6.

30pts difference between these 2. If Marines had direct access to Vendetta as well it would be a no brainer. But as I said I'm reserving judgment atm...

Who assaults out of Stormraven? Who puts a dreadnought in one? They are not in different leagues at all. In fact, outside 24", the Vendetta still massively outguns the Raven.

How are your flyers outside 24"? Flyers can reach anything they want and with the reduced amount of turns flyers participate the missiles make up some of the short fall. You are right the Vendetta does pack more of a ranged punch than the Raven but not as much as you claim. The MM on the Raven itself easily accounts for a Vendettas LC. It can take a TL Lascannon itself and 4 Str8 AP2 missiles all on a BS4 platform that can shoot different targets (not saying it should)

The Raven is also harder to pop should it hover due to ceramite plating.

 Peregrine wrote:

MasterOfGaunts wrote:
Maybe there is the space for the troops but every aircraft has a maximum take off weight --- just a hint from an engineer

Yes, I know about weight and balance limits, but the lascannons shouldn't be that heavy compared to the other weapon options it can take on the same hardpoints. For example, the Valkyrie is perfectly capable of flying with two huge extra fuel tanks instead of lascannons and a pair of Sentinels in the passenger compartment.

Well high energy laser consume a lot of power and who knows about the weight of a proper battery. But I think its pointless to go any further on this discussion. :p

OP, are you kidding me? Of course Vendettas are still worth it, they are among the best fliers, AA units, and tank hunters, if not the best, in 40k and they rock transport capacity to boot. As a Xenos player, I would kill for a flyer like this. If the price truly bothers you that much, I would happily trade you my razorsharks and sunsharks for your valkyries and vendettas. If I had the option to field 200 point Vendettas with no transport capacity in my codices, I would include 1-2 Vendettas in many of my armies. They are arguably still underpriced even at 170, and they sure as heck are still worth fielding.

 wildboar wrote:
How are your flyers outside 24"? Flyers can reach anything they want and with the reduced amount of turns flyers participate the missiles make up some of the short fall. You are right the Vendetta does pack more of a ranged punch than the Raven but not as much as you claim. The MM on the Raven itself easily accounts for a Vendettas LC. It can take a TL Lascannon itself and 4 Str8 AP2 missiles all on a BS4 platform that can shoot different targets (not saying it should)

The Raven is also harder to pop should it hover due to ceramite plating.

The missiles are lower strength than the lascannons, which is actually very bad, especially for the BA missiles, which need pens for their special ability to be worth a damn. I've probably seen 20+ ravens die on both sides of the table, and at least 66% were from being hull pointed out. The ceramite armor is useless. Hover mode is suicide making assault basically useless.

People complaining about storm ravens are missing that they can do things like carry blood talon dreadnoughts directly into close combat.

Vendettas can just carry a couple of special weapons on squishy guard models. Their transport capacity should be cheaper because they can't transport as dangerous of cargo.

Also, don't be too quick to dismiss immune to melta. Sure, there are lots of ways to take down fliers without meltaguns, but most of the kills I've made against fliers have been with them. The fact that fliers have so many restrictions on the way they move often means they're forced to be way too close to meltas and multimeltas.

Plus, you have more options with the storm raven as well. You can't take hurricane bolters and assault cannons on a vendetta. Or split fire with anti-tank and anti-infantry weapons.

Whether the points are fair or not, a storm raven SHOULD be more expensive than a vendetta.

"People complaining about storm ravens are missing that they can do things like carry blood talon dreadnoughts directly into close combat. "

Not exactly. They can't assault the turn they arrive, so you have to either drop them with grav chute insertion or spend a turn on the death trap express.

And they are NOT imune to melta. Melta just becomes a fancier krak missile. S8 AP1 is still a lot more dangerous than S8 AP3, although they are equally good at hull pointing the damn things out. So, yeah, I am dismissing that useless feature on the thing. Which I'm sure GW think is worth so many points.

Options that add 30 pts to the already high cost? Yeah, I take the stupid things because in for a penny in for a pound, but the base model should not have to pay for the potential to take options. That's crazy. The cost of the options should take care of that.

And no, the dangerous cargo should cost more, NOT penalize the transport for the other portions of the codex. That is also insane thinking. Not that assaulting from the Stormraven is a thing anyway, because its guaranteed to get your raven killed. Besides, I'm not certain that some plasma vets can't cause more damage in 6th than whatever overpriced units you crush into the raven.

By the way, this is the kind of absurd logic that GW used in 2nd that made marines unplayable. Marines were charged for BS 4 and the charged again on their heavies because they were BS 4. Which they already paid for.

The whole point of transporting units in a Vendetta is using grav chutes to drop a scoring unit on an objective turn 5/6, you don't need extra capacity.

Well, I think Vendettas are now correctly priced.

However, one could think about the smaller transport capacity.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
The vendetta shouldn't have the same capacity as the valkyrie, because it needs the space for the three twin-linked lascannon batteries.

And, once again, this contradicts the model. The Vendetta model clearly has external battery packs for the lascannons and the exact same transport space as the Valkyrie. This is a game balance change, nothing more.

And my hammerhead model can clearly still transport guys inside of it, but I'm supposed to take GW's word for it that the turret weapon needs all that empty space that's not being taken up by anything.