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So I'm getting into the game partially with a Mechanicus army for WH30k. And I was looking at potentially getting Space Marines. The obvious choice would be Iron Hands but I dislike their fluff. What I'm looking for is a Legion/Chapter that wants to improve the lives of humanity both for safety and quality. To reclaim their technological birthright after the years of the Long Night. Close ties to the Mechanicus for the technological aspect and still wanting to discover the human condition and improve upon it. Not sure if there is another published legion like this or if I should just make one up.

Well, the closest to that is the Iron Hands but you already mentioning not liking their fluff. What is it you don't like about them exactly? The only others I could think of would be the Imperial Fists or maybe the Salamanders (they would be the friendliest and most 'humanitarian' of the bunch). You could make an argument for Iron Warriors but Perturabo doesn't seem to be terribly into the whole "discover the human condition" ideal.

For the record though, during 30k there were no Chapters save for those that were in the 18 legions' organizational structure. Making up an entire legion is cringe-y from a fluff perspective since there's really no room for another Space Marine legion in the fluff. There are technically two others that aren't accounted for but I'm pretty sure that their origins are left intentionally unknown for thematic purposes.

Their whole "flesh is weak" and them executing what 20 million people in later millennium after liberating their worlds from rebellion. They are not what a Space Marine chapter is suppose to be.

Also sorry did not mean to infer that they would also be in 30k as an allied force. But for story purposes since my gaming group is really driven by those instead of just competitive play I wanted something that meets somewhere in that middle. Not articulating this very well.

HoskuneAstetic wrote:
Their whole "flesh is weak" and them executing what 20 million people in later millennium after liberating their worlds from rebellion. They are not what a Space Marine chapter is suppose to be.

Also sorry did not mean to infer that they would also be in 30k as an allied force. But for story purposes since my gaming group is really driven by those instead of just competitive play I wanted something that meets somewhere in that middle. Not articulating this very well.

Well, it's worth mentioning that the entire Mechanicum has a "the flesh is weak" policy. In fact, I'd say it's more intrinsic to the Cult of the Machine than it is to the Iron Hands. And as for executing 20 million people, that's not exactly out of character for most of the Space Marine legions. The Great Crusade and the Horus Heresy were not happy times for the people who didn't want to join the Imperium. A lot of innocent people died, mostly at the hands of the Legions; loyalist and traitors alike.

I think your ideas about what a space marine 'should be' is not entirely in fitting with the rest of the 40k 'verse.
That's not to say you can't do it, it's entirely likely that some Iron Hands on one of the re-discovery fleets (Y'know, the ones which travel around finding worlds and fancy tech) could have mellowed in their opinion to humans.
Also, Ferrus Manus himself wanted more empathy and feelings in his warriors, so that's something to think about.

Otherwise, if you're doing 40k then you can easily just homebrew up a chapter, but really, think it through, if you just have supernoblekindcaringIronHandswhoaremercilesstoemperor'sfoes, it's gonna come of as a bit marty/mary-stu ish.

My 2 pennies anyhow.

 Darth Bob wrote:
Well, the closest to that is the Iron Hands but you already mentioning not liking their fluff. What is it you don't like about them exactly? The only others I could think of would be the Imperial Fists or maybe the Salamanders (they would be the friendliest and most 'humanitarian' of the bunch). You could make an argument for Iron Warriors but Perturabo doesn't seem to be terribly into the whole "discover the human condition" ideal.

For the record though, during 30k there were no Chapters save for those that were in the 18 legions' organizational structure. Making up an entire legion is cringe-y from a fluff perspective since there's really no room for another Space Marine legion in the fluff. There are technically two others that aren't accounted for but I'm pretty sure that their origins are left intentionally unknown for thematic purposes.

Thanks to the wonderful new supplement by Matt Ward, the Iron Hands have been upgraded from being dicks to being the studious unrivaled lord of dickhood and all of dickland.*

*Well to be fair, the Marines Malevolent are still worse. But the Iron Hands sure do make a mad dash for second place for being a bunch of dicks. And the Iron Hands were a lot better during the Great Crusade and the Horus Heresy than they are "now". In the 41st millennium, those fething donkey-caves got an entire company of the Raven Guard killed for no damn reason besides being too lazy to get up and actually save them.

So you like the Iron Hands but you don't like the Iron Hands?

and, Wyzilla, FYI: Matt Ward whines are a good reason to ignore someone.

viewfinder wrote:
So you like the Iron Hands but you don't like the Iron Hands?

and, Wyzilla, FYI: Matt Ward whines are a good reason to ignore someone.

Did you read the Iron Hand supplement? The Iron Hands practically murdered a fully company of the Raven Guard, killed numerous civilians with little to no cause, and Ferrus Manus either created or partially is a Keeper of Secrets. The Ultramarine whining is overblown, but his new run with the Biel Tan 2.0 and Iron Hans supplements are hair-wrenching material.

Wait, what? Ferrus Manus is a keeper of secrets? How does a loyalist primarch become a greater daemon?

 lennymaybe wrote:
Wait, what? Ferrus Manus is a keeper of secrets? How does a loyalist primarch become a greater daemon?

Apparently his RAAAEG at being killed by Fulgrim spawned the Sapphire Prince, which was a Keeper of Secrets. It can be interrelated as either his emotions creating it, part of his actual being creating it (which isn't that hard to believe given if you buy into Sanguinius being incarnated as the black rage and the Sanguinator), to just being the Keeper of Secrets, although that's really stretching it.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 lennymaybe wrote:
Wait, what? Ferrus Manus is a keeper of secrets? How does a loyalist primarch become a greater daemon?

Apparently his RAAAEG at being killed by Fulgrim spawned the Sapphire Prince, which was a Keeper of Secrets. It can be interrelated as either his emotions creating it, part of his actual being creating it (which isn't that hard to believe given if you buy into Sanguinius being incarnated as the black rage and the Sanguinator), to just being the Keeper of Secrets, although that's really stretching it.

I wouldn't say that just because your emotions create a daemon, you're a daemon yourself. By that logic, every human in the Imperium is at least partially a daemon.

Their whole "flesh is weak" and them executing what 20 million people in later millennium after liberating their worlds from rebellion. They are not what a Space Marine chapter is suppose to be.

That is exactly what a Space Marine Chapter is expected to do.

"The wise man learns from the deaths of others" is an axiom of the Imperium, after all, "the bloodiest regime imaginable".

So you have a bunch of worlds that are in rebellion. You roll in, you pacify the hell out of them, and then you put twenty million people to death. If the survivors then think that you don't mean business, then they really are too stupid to live, so you would be better off exterminating all of them, and importing new residents from a distant, loyal planet.

If there is one thing the Imperium does not lack for, it's people.

Yeah, twenty 20 million people is chump change as far as population for the Imperium. For us, that's mass genocide and a horrible event that will be remembered through history a la the Holocaust. For the Imperium that's just any other day.

you need a mix between iron hands and salamanders to get the tech links and the humanity

i suggest a chapter set it in 40k but create them with a fluff background that both illustrates how they can about all these 30k relics and why they are iron handsy/slamandersy

only thing i can think of is that these guys were survivors of istvaan roughly 300 of them got off world and were lost in the warp. they ended up translating in the sol system after the fight for terra and in the time together had created a close bond. they were then founded as a chapter and over 10k years have grown as a fleet based chapter embracing the ideals of both legions. searching for archeotech and saving humanity wherever they go

that way you can have all the cool looking iron hands armour and the cool looking salamanders armour (including pyroclasts which are awesome) but have fluff that fits in with the 40k setting)

Original Poster, I don't think this is the franchise for you. You'd probably be happier playing in a different universe, might I suggest Starcraft or Halo?

HoskuneAstetic wrote:
So I'm getting into the game partially with a Mechanicus army for WH30k. And I was looking at potentially getting Space Marines. The obvious choice would be Iron Hands but I dislike their fluff. What I'm looking for is a Legion/Chapter that wants to improve the lives of humanity both for safety and quality. To reclaim their technological birthright after the years of the Long Night. Close ties to the Mechanicus for the technological aspect and still wanting to discover the human condition and improve upon it. Not sure if there is another published legion like this or if I should just make one up.

There's no Legion that fits what you want really, and the Admech aren't exactly the cuddly type either.
I'd say the Ultramarines are probably the closest, as they create trade and industry and a general architects of civilization and order. They don't fetishize technology however.
Running a 40k Chapter would give you more leeway to make things up than the Legions would I think.

HoskuneAstetic wrote:
So I'm getting into the game partially with a Mechanicus army for WH30k. And I was looking at potentially getting Space Marines. The obvious choice would be Iron Hands but I dislike their fluff. What I'm looking for is a Legion/Chapter that wants to improve the lives of humanity both for safety and quality. To reclaim their technological birthright after the years of the Long Night. Close ties to the Mechanicus for the technological aspect and still wanting to discover the human condition and improve upon it. Not sure if there is another published legion like this or if I should just make one up.

Does not compute.
Does not compute!!

The Mechanicus is the most stagnant of all factions. "Improve technology" = "HERESY". They actively search and destroy anyone who tries to do so. To improve the human condition?? They are barely human at this point. They dream of becoming machines. They hate flesh, they hate nature, they hate humanity. They are by far the most evil / inhuman faction in the Imperium. The Iron Hands are like fluffy puppies compared to them.

1- Their armies include countless lobotomized servitors that were conscripted human beings. If one of their worlds is suddenly under attack, lots of people is turned into a brainless warrior.
2- They get their dead, and their allies´ dead, and turn them into nutritious paste to feed on! "Why to waste the useless flesh?"
3- And the warriors that keep their mind are not happy. Most live in eternal pain and torment and insanity. Read the way Thallanx work.
4- Their planets are hellholes.


I play chaos and they are hardcore to me. I mean... have you look at their leaders? This is an improved "human" leader.

Does this guy look like a nice human being to you? And what about their machines?

And did you ever hear of Cherubs? They are partly lobotomized & augmented babies.


Ok, my advice is: pick a chapter/Legion (Salamanders, World Eaters, Malevolent Marines... doesn´t matter) and say that they are actually nice. Create your own fluff. If you are turning the Mechanicus into humanitarians, then it should be easy.

Actually, Cherubs are entirely vat-grown. They just look like babies.

 Psienesis wrote:
Actually, Cherubs are entirely vat-grown. They just look like babies.

Are you sure?

Citation? I did believe they were the children of heretics, female servitors and those who are deemed not profficient enough. But coming to think of it I don´t remember the source.

Still quite creepy.
I mean, they look like babies because they are babies, don´t they? Vat-grown or not. They are born human

Cherubim are genderless.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cherub#.U0RhdKLEGEo

Lexicanum wrote:The Cherubim (sg. cherub, pl. cherubim or cherubs) are a unique form of construct created by the Adeptus Mechanicus for the Imperium. In appearance they are small angelic children, with the intentional effect of symbolizing purity. Although cherubim are specially-built for many purposes, some psychic Inquisitors utilize them as familiars.

Also in one of the FFG books where your Adepts can acquire these monstrous little things it goes into some detail about their natures.

 Psienesis wrote:
Cherubim are genderless.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cherub#.U0RhdKLEGEo

Lexicanum wrote:The Cherubim (sg. cherub, pl. cherubim or cherubs) are a unique form of construct created by the Adeptus Mechanicus for the Imperium. In appearance they are small angelic children, with the intentional effect of symbolizing purity. Although cherubim are specially-built for many purposes, some psychic Inquisitors utilize them as familiars.

Also in one of the FFG books where your Adepts can acquire these monstrous little things it goes into some detail about their natures.

Awwwwww.....

You ruined my day. You took a little piece of grimdark out of my heart.

Well, being that they are "vat grown" suggests that some sort of human DNA is involved in their creation... basically grown as a mindless human organism, simply removing any sort of gender expression (so you just basically yank the X and Y chromosomes before hitting the "go" button) and then install some grav-lifters, some little augmetic wings, a vox system and a tape-deck (for playing all those hymns on loop).

It is noted that most Cherubim are used by the Ecclesiarchy... and sometimes they go feral.

But a sentient human baby is not used in their construction, no.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 lennymaybe wrote:
Wait, what? Ferrus Manus is a keeper of secrets? How does a loyalist primarch become a greater daemon?

Apparently his RAAAEG at being killed by Fulgrim spawned the Sapphire Prince, which was a Keeper of Secrets. It can be interrelated as either his emotions creating it, part of his actual being creating it (which isn't that hard to believe given if you buy into Sanguinius being incarnated as the black rage and the Sanguinator), to just being the Keeper of Secrets, although that's really stretching it.

Shouldn't anger spawn a bloodthirster and not a keeper of secrets?

There is such a thing as hate-fething.

You'll want to play Salamanders, out of all the chapters their pretty much the only "good" chapter. Actually I can't think of them committing any sort of genocide. Most of the other chapters have pretty much resigned to wanton murder and destruction.

 Psienesis wrote:
There is such a thing as hate-fething.

Oh I know.



/References no one will understand.

Salamanders kick all kinds of ass when they need to, they're just very supportive of humanity in general.

Salamanders are not soft, but have a strong respect for innocent citizens and will risk lives at times to defend them more than others.

But never shy away from what must be done

 Kain wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
There is such a thing as hate-fething.

Oh I know.



/References no one will understand.

What the hell does "concupiscent" mean?

 Lord-Captain Cepinari wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
There is such a thing as hate-fething.

Oh I know.



/References no one will understand.

What the hell does "concupiscent" mean?

Lustful or filled with sexual desire.