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d-usa wrote: Planing in selling them there =/= cattle were on a truck headed for the state line.
All the evidence we have seems to show that the cattle remained pretty close to the area during the entire time.
If anything, it strikes me as the people who were holding the cows and working on the arrangements were grunts on the ground not privy to the chess game going on between the generals.
d-usa wrote: Planing in selling them there =/= cattle were on a truck headed for the state line.
All the evidence we have seems to show that the cattle remained pretty close to the area during the entire time.
Telephone call goes like this.
BLM Hi we've got 200 head of cattle to sell.
Auction house If you have the papers ok.
BLM These are feral, off government land.
Auctioneers don't bother.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
d-usa wrote: Planing in selling them there =/= cattle were on a truck headed for the state line.
All the evidence we have seems to show that the cattle remained pretty close to the area during the entire time.
Telephone call goes like this.
BLM Hi we've got 200 head of cattle to sell.
Auction house If you have the papers ok.
BLM These are feral, off government land.
Auctioneers don't bother.
Pure speculation, and if that was what happened then Utah would have declined and given the lack of papers as a reason.
d-usa wrote: Planing in selling them there =/= cattle were on a truck headed for the state line.
All the evidence we have seems to show that the cattle remained pretty close to the area during the entire time.
Telephone call goes like this.
BLM Hi we've got 200 head of cattle to sell.
Auction house If you have the papers ok.
BLM These are feral, off government land.
Auctioneers don't bother.
Pure speculation, and if that was what happened then Utah would have declined and given the lack of papers as a reason.
Instead Utah gave Bundy as a reason.
They could have had many reasons, bundy being one of them
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
d-usa wrote: Planing in selling them there =/= cattle were on a truck headed for the state line.
All the evidence we have seems to show that the cattle remained pretty close to the area during the entire time.
Telephone call goes like this.
BLM Hi we've got 200 head of cattle to sell.
Auction house If you have the papers ok.
BLM These are feral, off government land.
Auctioneers don't bother.
Pure speculation, and if that was what happened then Utah would have declined and given the lack of papers as a reason.
Instead Utah gave Bundy as a reason.
They could have had many reasons, bundy being one of them
They could have, they also could have all turned Hindu and stopped eating beef. But what evidence do you have of any reasons apart from the ones clearly given.
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
d-usa wrote: Planing in selling them there =/= cattle were on a truck headed for the state line.
All the evidence we have seems to show that the cattle remained pretty close to the area during the entire time.
Telephone call goes like this.
BLM Hi we've got 200 head of cattle to sell.
Auction house If you have the papers ok.
BLM These are feral, off government land.
Auctioneers don't bother.
Pure speculation, and if that was what happened then Utah would have declined and given the lack of papers as a reason.
Instead Utah gave Bundy as a reason.
They could have had many reasons, bundy being one of them
They could have, they also could have all turned Hindu and stopped eating beef. But what evidence do you have of any reasons apart from the ones clearly given.
We have the same sort of rules here. My old man, has a farm, so I know the sort of hoops you have to jump thru.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
You know the hoops that a US federal body has to jump through upon seizing illegally grazing cattle in one state and selling it in another because your dad owns a farm?
Right.
Does your dad owning a farm also give you clairvoyant powers, to better know what the Utah people really meant instead of what they actually gave as the reason for their decision?
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
There are rules and hoops. There is just no evidence that any of the rules were broken.
There was zero evidence that any of the cattle were in transit to auction.
There was zero evidence that there was an attempt to auction them off without the paperwork.
There was zero evidence that Utah refused the cattle because of bad paperwork by the Feds..
But because your dad owns a farm you know the Feds, despite lack of any evidence and contrary to their public statements, broke the rules.
The only evidence we have is their statement that they refused because they considered them feral due to Bundy, which means he will never be able to sell them either. If anything Utah hurt Bundy more than the BLM.
motyak wrote: You know the hoops that a US federal body has to jump through upon seizing illegally grazing cattle in one state and selling it in another because your dad owns a farm?
Right.
Does your dad owning a farm also give you clairvoyant powers, to better know what the Utah people really meant instead of what they actually gave as the reason for their decision?
I think Utah probably gave various reasons, and the people writing that chose the one that gave the best headline or was best for the point they wanted to get across.
I think it was unreasonable of the BLM to think they could round up those cattle one day and sell them the next.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
d-usa wrote: Planing in selling them there =/= cattle were on a truck headed for the state line.
All the evidence we have seems to show that the cattle remained pretty close to the area during the entire time.
Telephone call goes like this.
BLM Hi we've got 200 head of cattle to sell.
Auction house If you have the papers ok.
BLM These are feral, off government land.
Auctioneers don't bother.
Pure speculation, and if that was what happened then Utah would have declined and given the lack of papers as a reason.
Instead Utah gave Bundy as a reason.
They could have had many reasons, bundy being one of them
The Tribune article I linked does indeed list a few reasons and protecting the Utah herds was one of them.
A quote from the article:
""There are serious concerns about human safety and animal health and well-being if these animals are shipped to and sold in Utah," Herbert wrote."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/20 23:45:46
But they didn't give "lack of following regulations by the BLM" as the reason for those risks. Utah said the cattle is a risk because of Bundy, and basically black-listed the cattle from ever being ok for sale anywhere.
d-usa wrote: Planing in selling them there =/= cattle were on a truck headed for the state line.
All the evidence we have seems to show that the cattle remained pretty close to the area during the entire time.
Telephone call goes like this.
BLM Hi we've got 200 head of cattle to sell.
Auction house If you have the papers ok.
BLM These are feral, off government land.
Auctioneers don't bother.
Pure speculation, and if that was what happened then Utah would have declined and given the lack of papers as a reason.
Instead Utah gave Bundy as a reason.
They could have had many reasons, bundy being one of them
The Tribune article I linked does indeed list a few reasons and protecting the Utah herds was one of them.
A quote from the article:
""There are serious concerns about human safety and animal health and well-being if these animals are shipped to and sold in Utah," Herbert wrote."
Agreed there were many reasons given.
"On Friday, Eardly and his fellow commissioners passed an emergency resolution giving a litany of reasons why the Bundy cows must stay out. Topping the list are brucellosis and other diseases that could spread to Utah herds.
The resolution claims many of Bundy’s cows have been running loose on the range for so many years that they can no longer be considered domestic. In addition to being disease carriers, these animals are not accustomed to being gathered or transported and would be a menace to those handling them, it said.
"Feral cattle do not receive proper immunizations or other veterinary care," the resolution states. "Feral cattle are likely to interbreed, and interbreeding of cattle creates numerous problems with maintaining a healthy and vibrant herd."
And of course politics would be one of them.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
"On Friday, Eardly and his fellow commissioners passed an emergency resolution giving a litany of reasons why the Bundy cows must stay out. [color=orange]Topping the list are brucellosis and other diseases that could spread to Utah herds.
You realize that that reason just goes right back to Bundy, right? Pretty much every reason listed can be paraphrased as "Bundy is a terrible rancher." Pretty much the only solution under the Utah resolution is to go out and commit cowlocaust.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/21 00:02:04
"On Friday, Eardly and his fellow commissioners passed an emergency resolution giving a litany of reasons why the Bundy cows must stay out. [color=orange]Topping the list are brucellosis and other diseases that could spread to Utah herds.
You realize that that reason just goes right back to Bundy, right? Pretty much every reason listed can be paraphrased as "Bundy is a terrible rancher." Pretty much the only solution under the Utah resolution is to go out and commit cowlocaust.
I think its the difference between rancher and farmer. They both breed cattle, they just go about it differently.
Having said that Who knows how good a rancher he is.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
I think its the difference between rancher and farmer. They both breed cattle, they just go about it differently.
Having said that Who knows how good a rancher he is.
So you're argument that this entire thing isn't all Bundy's fault... is that despite all evidence saying its his fault, it's not?
I think its the difference between rancher and farmer. They both breed cattle, they just go about it differently.
Having said that Who knows how good a rancher he is.
So you're argument that this entire thing isn't all Bundy's fault... is that despite all evidence saying its his fault, it's not?
Which the stand off or the cattle?
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
Both, seeing as one was a direct result of the other.
The stand off was both parties fault. should never have happened.
The cattle fiasco was down to BLM, some of the cattle were not even bundies. They should have been more professional.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
The circular side of the force is strong in this place.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
d-usa wrote: he 900+ public health risk feral cattle are his fault.
And as those cattle and unpaid dues are the whole reason any of this happened, it's still Bundy's fault. At best, you can place some blame on a bunch of idiots who want to fight against the man for the hell of it while completely missing what is going on around them (probably some jokes here about why idiots shouldn't be allowed to breed or something).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/21 00:37:33
d-usa wrote: The 900+ public health risk feral cattle are his fault.
The feral cattle were the fault of anybody who had cattle roaming free on that land. Do you think cattle check each others brands before mating.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
I guess "Intent" is irreverent. Its why you stay within the guide lines of a Court Order
BLM should have ask for clarification from the Judge
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d-usa wrote: The 900+ public health risk feral cattle are his fault.
The feral cattle were the fault of anybody who had cattle roaming free on that land. Do you think cattle check each others brands before mating.
So...Bundy's fault then. Gotcha
But he wasn't the only owner was he.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
d-usa wrote: The 900+ public health risk feral cattle are his fault.
The feral cattle were the fault of anybody who had cattle roaming free on that land. Do you think cattle check each others brands before mating.
So...Bundy's fault then. Gotcha
Clearly it's BLM's fault for sitting on this for 20 years. I mean, if they'd arrested Bundy and rounded up all his cattle back when this started, instead using restraint and other such sissy nonsense, we clearly wouldn't be here now.
d-usa wrote: The 900+ public health risk feral cattle are his fault.
The feral cattle were the fault of anybody who had cattle roaming free on that land. Do you think cattle check each others brands before mating.
So...Bundy's fault then. Gotcha
But he wasn't the only owner was he.
Can't blame people who had paid for the right to use the land and who had properly documented cattle which obeyed the health and safety laws.
Can only blame the trespasser whose cattle were not documented or vaccinated (he was probably afraid of getting autistic cows) or whatever else he didn't do.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
