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Let's make this damn codex work. It's a bit of a disappointment but we have enough clues that we can start building lists. Let's do it.

HQ 931 pts

Punisher w/ Pask and Heavy Bolter Sponsons: 230 # This is the short-ranged Russ detachment. Main purpose is to butcher light infantry but can also crapshoot vehicles. It moves upfield.
Demolisher: 170

Vanquisher w/ Tank Commander, Multi-melta sponsons, and Hull Lascannon: 195 # This is the long-ranged Russ detachment. Main target is heavy infantry and armor. Stays back.
Executioner w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons: 175

Inquisitor Coteaz: 100 # Coteaz hangs out with his blob of Acolytes and grants Prescience to one of the Russ squadrons

Mastery Level 1 Inquisitor w/ 2 Servo Skulls: 61 # Keep back infiltrators and grant Prescience to one of the Russ squadrons


Troops 514 pts

Veterans w/ 3 Plasma Guns and Forward Sentries: 120 # Foot veterans hang out in cover. Mostly hang back and try not to die...considering putting these fellows in reserve.

Veterans w/ 3 Plasma Guns and Forward Sentries: 120 # Considering swapping one of these for a Vet squad w/ Demolitions and 3 Melta Guns to ride in the Valk...

3 Henchmen w/ 3 Melta Guns, in a Chimera with a Search Light: 98 # These guys run up to cause drama or cap objectives. They're cheap as dirt.

3 Henchmen w/ 3 Melta Guns, in a Chimera with a Search Light: 98

12 Henchmen w/ 3 Plasma Guns: 78 # These guys hang out with Coteaz

Fast Attack 305 pts

Vendetta: 170 # I have nothing that can really shoot up fliers so he's kind of necessary

Valkyrie w/ Rocket Pods: # This guy is kind of necessary for shooting up FW castles and stuff





It's a bit light on troops but I think with the 2 birds giving you drama, and the 4 Russes probably shooting at 4 separate targets, and all under the effects of Prescience, I think the troops are probably going to be the least of the opponent's concerns. General play style is something like...if going first, ram Pask's squadron and the 2 Chimeras full of Acolytes down the opponent's throat. If going second, screen the tanks with the 12-man squad of Acolytes and the Veterans, then keep the Henchmen in reserve to try and cap objectives later once the storm has settled.

Thoughts?

Nobody?

I'm only seeing 2 Russes in the list, looks like you've missed some things off?

Is the Inquisition from Grey Knights (as opposed to Codex: Inquisition)? If not you're really low on scoring units.

 grendel083 wrote:
I'm only seeing 2 Russes in the list, looks like you've missed some things off?

Is the Inquisition from Grey Knights (as opposed to Codex: Inquisition)? If not you're really low on scoring units.

The Inquisition is from Codex: Inquisition, so the 3 Henchmen units are scoring thanks to Coteaz.

Also, see the HQ section. There are 2 units of 2 Russes each. Thanks for responding!

I really dont like how you mix weapons, and pask is good, but he doesnt makes the bolters rending weapons, so it's just the punisher canon.

vets can only take 2 spe. weapons now.

I think you lack of means to deal with heavy meqs, a terminator spam for example.

You lack of ignore cover stuff.

You lack of skyfire weapons.

Squadron of vehicles are cool, sure, but they also allow someone to deal two penetrating hit 6 on one and blow the other, or glance them to death.

If you're going for ABG, you should consider the enginseer.

This list will prolly works, but wont be really efficient to me, i honestly see myself destroying at least half your leman russ turn one, finish turn two. The rest is handled by the rest of my weapons which arent designed to deal with high armor value. OFC, you'll prolly never play against another guard who is running such a list.

That's only my though on your list.

 Grepsd wrote:
I really dont like how you mix weapons, and pask is good, but he doesnt makes the bolters rending weapons, so it's just the punisher canon.

vets can only take 2 spe. weapons now.

I think you lack of means to deal with heavy meqs, a terminator spam for example.

You lack of ignore cover stuff.

You lack of skyfire weapons.

Squadron of vehicles are cool, sure, but they also allow someone to deal two penetrating hit 6 on one and blow the other, or glance them to death.

If you're going for ABG, you should consider the enginseer.

This list will prolly works, but wont be really efficient to me, i honestly see myself destroying at least half your leman russ turn one, finish turn two. The rest is handled by the rest of my weapons which arent designed to deal with high armor value. OFC, you'll prolly never play against another guard who is running such a list.

That's only my though on your list.

Vets can take 3 specials, that was an incorrect rumour. Also, you need squadrons to take tank commanders.

I would consolidate my russes in to one squadron, with Pask and two of something (vanquishers or exterminators probably). If he is your warlord this makes him really hard to take out from range, as he has two tanks between him an the enemy. Also, the punisher has too short a range. I know it is awesome, but you really have to expose him to make the best use. A vanquisher or exterminator (can you tell which tanks I like in this codex?) would give him the range to be more effective overall, with less chance of getting in melee. Also gives you just one squad for divination powers. I would not mix blast and non-blast russes, as that limits your ability to target fliers if you fail your order roll.

As for the Inquisiton, I don't use them so can't comment. I am probably going to go the russ+infantry route, you seem to be going mech so I don't have much to say. I tried mech with the ABG list from IA, I always found that deep striking melta or fast melta just killed my warlord tank and other tanks too quickly. Those bubble wrap bodies are priceless.

vets get 3 special weapons as it say's they get 2 (or 3 if they don;t take a heavy flamer). and yes the mix of tank types is a little confusing.

I have my codex right in front of me : up to 2 veterans can take options from the special weapon list.

Also remember, bigger russ squadron, more chance to get shot from everywhere, meaning more chance to blow up.

 Grepsd wrote:
I have my codex right in front of me : up to 2 veterans can take options from the special weapon list.

Also remember, bigger russ squadron, more chance to get shot from everywhere, meaning more chance to blow up.

Keep reading.

They can take a 3rd special in place of a Heavy Flamer.

Then we have different codex.
i'll take a picture of it just to be sure.

 Grepsd wrote:
Then we have different codex.
i'll take a picture of it just to be sure.

Which version do you have? I got the English print version, which states:

Up to two (or three, if no heavy flamer is taken) remaining Veterans that have not been upgraded with one of the options above may replace their lasgun with one item from the Special Weapon list.

i have a french version.

it says "Jusqu'à deux veterans n'ayant pas reçu une des options ci-dessus peuvent remplacer leur fusil laser par un choix de la liste armes spéciales.

Which can be translated to
Up to two remaining Veterans that have not been upgraded with one of the options above may replace their lasgun with one item from the Special Weapon list.

(Printed version bough on a GW store, i already saw some errors in it, but didnt knew there were any gameplay error, most of the errors i saw already were naming/translation errors)

Confirmed with GW store staff, 2 spe. weapons that's all, nothing else said in the FR version.

 Grepsd wrote:
i have a french version.

it says "Jusqu'à deux veterans n'ayant pas reçu une des options ci-dessus peuvent remplacer leur fusil laser par un choix de la liste armes spéciales.

Which can be translated to
Up to two remaining Veterans that have not been upgraded with one of the options above may replace their lasgun with one item from the Special Weapon list.

(Printed version bough on a GW store, i already saw some errors in it, but didnt knew there were any gameplay error, most of the errors i saw already were naming/translation errors)

Confirmed with GW store staff, 2 spe. weapons that's all, nothing else said in the FR version.

That is unfortunate, they missed the brackets. They definitely get three in the English version. I assume it would be fixed in an FAQs, but I don't know how foreign language FAQs work, or even when the English one with return to the world.

it hope you wont be the one to get FAQed... cause it would be another nasty surprise from this book...

I don't get the negativity towards the codex it is ludicrously good and a big improvement. Yes Vendettas got toned down to being just probably the best flyer around than than eadily by a country mile the best flyer around and Chimeras got a nerf that makes them make sense. Vets are cheaper for the same as before with a cheaper Taurox to put them in. Russes and Deathstrikes are silly good now. HQ it outright broken and the new Wyvern is super powered.

Now looking at your list it does look a little bit of a mess. Starting at the top. HQ Russes are fantastic. But the Punisher is a little meh for the points. I just think Pask in a Vanquisher is almost an auto include, though the Executioner is good too. Having his mate as a Demolisher seems a little wasteful. PE is such a boon to an Executioner that it seems the best tank to go with him or perhaps the Battletank so you can keep your Warlord at arms length.

You're reliant on prescience on the other squad so why not go all plasma on the Executioner or just drop the sponsons. Also as this squad is a stay back squad why pay for the 12" ranged multimeltas? Swap this to Pask and you've got rerolls on the armour pen with the Vanquisher and lascannon so you'll probably not need the multimeltas even when the enemy do get close. Also get relic plating. 5+ deny the witch for 3 points to protect what 400ish points is a no brainer.

You don't need coteaz or the other inquisitor. Primaris Psykers for 11 points less give you 3 presciences. Or 36 less points for 2 Presciences and another Divination power. Also consider a Tech Priest. Power of the machine Spirit is funny on Russes and if you bolster the HQs to 3 tanks they can all target a different unit with their main gun!!

Vets need transports always. I'd take Tauroxes possibly dropping a special weapon as it only has 2 fire points. Drop the Henchmen, Vets do it better.

I'd think about just taking 2 Vendettas rather than a Valk, if you want a ride along take a unit of storm troopers.

No Heavy Support is also weird its probably the best part of the codex. Wyverns delete a unit a turn and the Deathstrikes can win you the game in a single shot. I think over all your list is trying to do too many things and the inquisitorial allies are just confusing it whilst sucking up more points. I think if you're going with Russes you need to take a decent number of them at least 6 though at this point level you could easily fit in 8 or even more. Pick what you want the army to do as a whole and stick to it. Do you want to be in his face. Then go all out for that. Do you want a gun line then likewise stick to that. Or a wall of Russes, or Ap2/1 spam. Pick something to be the best at and be the best at that thing.

Trickstick, that's an interesting point about blast vs. non-blast Russes. What would you recommend if I wanted to run 2 Tank Commanders (i.e., Pask and one other) and 2 Russes per squadron? What kind of teams?


I'm really not seeing how people are saying they'll blow away 2 Russes per turn in the early game. Even without cover, pissing at AV14 across the board is typically pretty futile, and anybody hopping out of pods or otherwise going for T1 suicide drop melta is going to get lit up with Plasma because I've been expecting that.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FlingitNow wrote:
I don't get the negativity towards the codex it is ludicrously good and a big improvement. Yes Vendettas got toned down to being just probably the best flyer around than than eadily by a country mile the best flyer around and Chimeras got a nerf that makes them make sense. Vets are cheaper for the same as before with a cheaper Taurox to put them in. Russes and Deathstrikes are silly good now. HQ it outright broken and the new Wyvern is super powered.

Now looking at your list it does look a little bit of a mess. Starting at the top. HQ Russes are fantastic. But the Punisher is a little meh for the points. I just think Pask in a Vanquisher is almost an auto include, though the Executioner is good too. Having his mate as a Demolisher seems a little wasteful. PE is such a boon to an Executioner that it seems the best tank to go with him or perhaps the Battletank so you can keep your Warlord at arms length.

You're reliant on prescience on the other squad so why not go all plasma on the Executioner or just drop the sponsons. Also as this squad is a stay back squad why pay for the 12" ranged multimeltas? Swap this to Pask and you've got rerolls on the armour pen with the Vanquisher and lascannon so you'll probably not need the multimeltas even when the enemy do get close. Also get relic plating. 5+ deny the witch for 3 points to protect what 400ish points is a no brainer.

You don't need coteaz or the other inquisitor. Primaris Psykers for 11 points less give you 3 presciences. Or 36 less points for 2 Presciences and another Divination power. Also consider a Tech Priest. Power of the machine Spirit is funny on Russes and if you bolster the HQs to 3 tanks they can all target a different unit with their main gun!!

Vets need transports always. I'd take Tauroxes possibly dropping a special weapon as it only has 2 fire points. Drop the Henchmen, Vets do it better.

I'd think about just taking 2 Vendettas rather than a Valk, if you want a ride along take a unit of storm troopers.

No Heavy Support is also weird its probably the best part of the codex. Wyverns delete a unit a turn and the Deathstrikes can win you the game in a single shot. I think over all your list is trying to do too many things and the inquisitorial allies are just confusing it whilst sucking up more points. I think if you're going with Russes you need to take a decent number of them at least 6 though at this point level you could easily fit in 8 or even more. Pick what you want the army to do as a whole and stick to it. Do you want to be in his face. Then go all out for that. Do you want a gun line then likewise stick to that. Or a wall of Russes, or Ap2/1 spam. Pick something to be the best at and be the best at that thing.

Fling, I hear what you're saying, but you're clearly writing a 2000+ point list with these suggestions.

What gets cut and what stays in?

negativity cause of :
- hydra's death, they wont help me anymore against eldars, i have no way to handle them anymore, but luck, and that is something not accountable.
- collosus, medusa, griffon removal.
-Taurox is ugly, and not that good.
ogryn and rough rider are still really hard to play in a (semi)competitive environment.

Now about his inquisitors, they are really good to twin link weapons, and to bring stuborn, and everything for almost no cost. Coteaz brings the 3+ unit size, that can take objectives, and be mixed however you want them, in himself he's not really interesting, but he does bring some interesting options. It all depends on your playstyle. (NB : russ cant take objectives, so you better bring something to take and hold theses objectives.)

NB : coteaz rules "i've been expecting you" is only 12" from HIM, so you wont be able to protect much from first turn drop melta.

Any good artillery will ripe your leman russ appart, 14 becomes 13, S10 using 2 dices means the odds to have a penetrating hit are really high. Now it all depends on what you'll be up against, but i try to prepare for the worst and cover the weakness of my list so i wont get obliterated cause i cant handle certain list type. Again, it's up to you, to your playstyle, and to whom you'll be playing against.

I'd cut all the Inquisition for a start a competent opponent never gets hit by IBEY. Then as I said you need to decide what you want the list to be.

2 tank commanders is not something I will do myself, but that is purely for fluff. It is the same reason I have never had 2 CCS, I just don't like having 2 commanders.

Anyway, If I was going to use 2 tank commanders, I would probably use 2 exterminators 2 vanquishers, or 4 vanquishers. All of them would have lascannon and meltas. They make reasonably good AA tanks and can deal with armour quite well. The only thing they are bad against is cover. That may be a reason to go 2 vanquishers 2 eradicators, if you feel cover is a problem for you.

How about...

HQ

Vanquisher w/ Pask, Multi-Melta sponsons, Relic Plating and Hull Lascannon: 238
Executioner w/ Heavy Bolter Sponsons and Relic Plating: 178

CCS w/ 2 Plasma Guns and a Lascannon: 110

Troops

PCS w/ 4 Melta Guns: 70
2 Infantry Squads w/ Autocannons: 120
Total: 190

PCS w/ 3 Melta Guns: 60
2 Infantry Squads w/ Autocannons: 120
Total: 180



Heavy Support

Manticore w/ Relic Plating: 173

Demolisher w/ Relic Plating: 173

Punisher w/ Bolter Sponsons and Relic Plating: 168

Fast Attack

Vendetta: 170
Vendetta: 170

This way I've got the HS sections split up a bit better. It's 1750 on the dot. Thoughts?

I would swap the Punisher for an Executioner (and drop the sponsons off both) and add it to Pask's unit. You only need 1 relic plating in a unit to get the benefit.

Vets are the best troops choice by a mile take them. CCS could be another Russ squad and should be.

Deathstrike >>> Manticore and cheaper.

 FlingitNow wrote:
I would swap the Punisher for an Executioner (and drop the sponsons off both) and add it to Pask's unit.

Always take the sponsons on non-ordnance russes. They add so much fire power and most of them dropped in price.

 FlingitNow wrote:
I would swap the Punisher for an Executioner (and drop the sponsons off both) and add it to Pask's unit. You only need 1 relic plating in a unit to get the benefit.

Vets are the best troops choice by a mile take them. CCS could be another Russ squad and should be.

Deathstrike >>> Manticore and cheaper.

Isn't a 700+ point Russ squadron putting all of your eggs in one basket?

I'm playing around with the values and struggling to fit enough scoring units using only Veterans. In 5th I had no problem running 4 squads of Plasma Vets but now that only 2 guns fire out, and they have to disembark to score, I'm hesitant to blow almost 700 points on Guardsmen. I usually like to keep at least one squad in a bird so that I can cap far off objectives. That isn't an option with Vets unless I change one of the Vendettas back to a Valk.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Trickstick wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
I would swap the Punisher for an Executioner (and drop the sponsons off both) and add it to Pask's unit.

Always take the sponsons on non-ordnance russes. They add so much fire power and most of them dropped in price.

This is what I'm thinking - especially with Pask giving the thing Preferred Enemy...

 Trickstick wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
I would swap the Punisher for an Executioner (and drop the sponsons off both) and add it to Pask's unit.

Always take the sponsons on non-ordnance russes. They add so much fire power and most of them dropped in price.

I disagree on squadrons. You've got 6 PE plasma Cannons why bother with sponsons? Unless you're also taking a Techpriest for PotMS.

Vets are better than normal guardsmen. Unless you're having more than 60 guys therr is literally no reason to even look at platoons. Vets are now only 1 point more for better Bs and better weapon options.

 FlingitNow wrote:
I disagree on squadrons. You've got 6 PE plasma Cannons why bother with sponsons?

On a standard executioner it is 19% more cost for a 66% increase in plasma fire. I would equate it to only taking 2 special weapons in a vet squad because it is "enough" (although with only 2 chimera fire points that is now a thing you could do I suppose). It just seems like you are paying the carrier cost and not using all of the weapon slots.

On a Russ I agree but when you have 2 that have to shoot the same thing I don't think its necessary, certainly not when its heavy bolter sponsons. Sponsons that support the main turret (PCs on Executioner, HBs on Punisher etc) are a great addition. But I would advise against taking the sponsons just because you can. Those 60 points on PC sponsons on 2 Executioners in a squadron could be a Wyvern instead.

So for solo Russes or Command Russes yes no brainer take the sponsons on the non-ordnance Russes. But on the Vanquisher possibly not due to no sponsons that really help it (multimeltas being too short ranged).

Don't think of it like not taking all 3 special weapons on Vets because 2 is enough think if you could take 10 plasmaguns on the Vets would you? Or would you take a max of 4-5 because you don't want that many points tied up firing at one target and that can be killed so easily.

 FlingitNow wrote:
On a Russ I agree but when you have 2 that have to shoot the same thing I don't think its necessary, certainly not when its heavy bolter sponsons. Sponsons that support the main turret (PCs on Executioner, HBs on Punisher etc) are a great addition. But I would advise against taking the sponsons just because you can. Those 60 points on PC sponsons on 2 Executioners in a squadron could be a Wyvern instead.

So for solo Russes or Command Russes yes no brainer take the sponsons on the non-ordnance Russes. But on the Vanquisher possibly not due to no sponsons that really help it (multimeltas being too short ranged).

Don't think of it like not taking all 3 special weapons on Vets because 2 is enough think if you could take 10 plasmaguns on the Vets would you? Or would you take a max of 4-5 because you don't want that many points tied up firing at one target and that can be killed so easily.

I think that is where we are different, I like to put the firepower down that will kill something for sure, the overkill chance doesn't bother me at all. I would go for 10 plasma every time, make sure they got an alpha strike off and did loads of damage and killed what they needed to.

Vanquishers work great with meltas. They don't have great range, sure, but they make it so that when something gets close it is going to die. Really good against fliers, which think they can fly close and are fine. A pair of meltas just need a single hit and there is a good chance of bringing a flier down.

 Trickstick wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
On a Russ I agree but when you have 2 that have to shoot the same thing I don't think its necessary, certainly not when its heavy bolter sponsons. Sponsons that support the main turret (PCs on Executioner, HBs on Punisher etc) are a great addition. But I would advise against taking the sponsons just because you can. Those 60 points on PC sponsons on 2 Executioners in a squadron could be a Wyvern instead.

So for solo Russes or Command Russes yes no brainer take the sponsons on the non-ordnance Russes. But on the Vanquisher possibly not due to no sponsons that really help it (multimeltas being too short ranged).

Don't think of it like not taking all 3 special weapons on Vets because 2 is enough think if you could take 10 plasmaguns on the Vets would you? Or would you take a max of 4-5 because you don't want that many points tied up firing at one target and that can be killed so easily.

I think that is where we are different, I like to put the firepower down that will kill something for sure, the overkill chance doesn't bother me at all. I would go for 10 plasma every time, make sure they got an alpha strike off and did loads of damage and killed what they needed to.

Vanquishers work great with meltas. They don't have great range, sure, but they make it so that when something gets close it is going to die. Really good against fliers, which think they can fly close and are fine. A pair of meltas just need a single hit and there is a good chance of bringing a flier down.

+1 - Vanquishers also have great utility in killing heavy infantry, MCs, etc. All of those are good Multi-Melta targets. And there's no reason to think that your opponent isn't going to bring the fight to you just because you have a long range turret weapon.

I could be wrong, but may I ask, you've got 2 allied HQ inquisitors, but if they're allies, you're only allowed to have 1 HQ, 2 Troops, 1 Elite, 1 Fast Attack, and 1 Heavy Support?

Just curious.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red__Thirst wrote:
I could be wrong, but may I ask, you've got 2 allied HQ inquisitors, but if they're allies, you're only allowed to have 1 HQ, 2 Troops, 1 Elite, 1 Fast Attack, and 1 Heavy Support?

Just curious.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Inquisition allows two HQ choices when taken as allies.