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 Ailaros wrote:
Or you could take an exterminator, which is Ap4, so actually good at what it does

And what might that be?

Astra millitarum has the power to go toe to toe with some of the biggest contenders. For example, Leman Russ can shut down Riptides (Both Kinds I believe - They struggle to deal with AV14 definitively) so the codex is more than "not so bad", it's actually going to be at the very, very least, top of second tier, but it's most likely to contend with tau.

As for flavour, the codex captures the old guard dex and adds new units without hurting the old ones. It's a shame things like Marbo and Bastonne had to go, but if it were for the sake of a reasonable and balanced codex not filled with overpriced (bastonne, harker) Low ability characters or unreasonably effective (Marbo) automatic S8AP2 blasts, It can't all be bad.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
Astra millitarum has the power to go toe to toe with some of the biggest contenders. For example, Leman Russ can shut down Riptides (Both Kinds I believe - They struggle to deal with AV14 definitively) so the codex is more than "not so bad", it's actually going to be at the very, very least, top of second tier, but it's most likely to contend with tau.

You do know the riptide can assault the gak out of a leman russ pretty badly right? That's not a struggle.

It has to get there, first.

Support your armor with infantry, like any good commander should, and the Riptide can assault the Russ all it wants. It's then going to get plasma/melta'd the ever-loving gak out of by those infantry blobs.

 Ailaros wrote:
Meanwhile, I think vendettas got off light. Their loss of transport capacity was nothing more than a slap on the wrist, as most squads that were transported before were 6 models or fewer anyways. All they got was a bit of a price hike, which, once again, we all knew was coming, and wasn't unnecessarily draconian.

Aren't you the guy who says that Vendettas are awful? Remember all your posts about how they show up late, can't stay on the table, and just get shot down by interceptor fire? Shouldn't you be outraged about how GW nerfed a terrible unit and made it even more useless? Or is this your concession that you were only talking about how Vendettas were bad to persuade people not to use a unit you thought was unfair?

And scout sentinels still outflank, hit side and rear armor, and guaranteed get to fire before they get shot at.

Just as long as you don't encounter any interceptor fire when you outflank. You know, that thing that you claim makes Vendettas useless.

 Psienesis wrote:
It has to get there, first.

It can deep strike, often without scattering and occasionally with friends...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
Meanwhile, I think vendettas got off light. Their loss of transport capacity was nothing more than a slap on the wrist, as most squads that were transported before were 6 models or fewer anyways. All they got was a bit of a price hike, which, once again, we all knew was coming, and wasn't unnecessarily draconian.

Aren't you the guy who says that Vendettas are awful? Remember all your posts about how they show up late, can't stay on the table, and just get shot down by interceptor fire? Shouldn't you be outraged about how GW nerfed a terrible unit and made it even more useless? Or is this your concession that you were only talking about how Vendettas were bad to persuade people not to use a unit you thought was unfair?

And scout sentinels still outflank, hit side and rear armor, and guaranteed get to fire before they get shot at.

Just as long as you don't encounter any interceptor fire when you outflank. You know, that thing that you claim makes Vendettas useless.

I ask for evidence that the wyvern is overrated (what that really means) and I get more adjectives. Aileros would have to come out and make some kind of direct argument like "there are better anti-infantry barrage units in the codex" or something along those lines.

The wyvern, like the thudd gun or the thunderfire is a freakin wound machine and it's incredibly cheap. In my opinion it seems undercosted, hell the the thunderfire is probably too cheap too. Thing is, you can take 3 and still only use up 1 heavy support slot so I don't even see how the wyvern is in conflict with a leman russ.

Especially now that you can take those Leman Russess in your HQ.

Does it strike anyone else odd that you can get the exact same unit, Tempestus Scions, as Troops in one Codex, MT, but as elites in another, AM, and yet you can ally them together to get Scions in both slots?

I play thudd guns can attest that even calculating 12 TL small blasts a turn can be tedious. But most people dont really care about making sure to resolve each blasts individually. If I roll a direct hit, I just take whatever is the highest amounts of hits I could get from my previous chains. If it scatters, just flip from the intial blast. Resolve wounds and just remove starting from the first blast hole.

If you actually remove from each blast's hits/wounds you will be there all day, either way, that unit is probably screwed.

for the wyvern, are you able to let the first one hit, then just let each blast either land on top (if hit) or if it scatters can it just touch the original blast in the direction shows on the dice?

Or is that a different rule?

You see where the first hits. Then you just roll the scatter die for each blast. On a hit you can choose to place the blast within or on the edge of any previous blast. On a scatter you have to scatter on the edge of the 1st blast.

Also TL effects every blast.

TuddFudders wrote:
You see where the first hits. Then you just roll the scatter die for each blast. On a hit you can choose to place the blast within or on the edge of any previous blast. On a scatter you have to scatter on the edge of the 1st blast.

Also TL effects every blast.

I thought so, it wont take that long then really.

 Swastakowey wrote:
I thought so, it wont take that long then really.

Oh, it really will. One of them is bad, but a full squadron of them is hell. Remember that since a "hit" result can touch ANY previous template you have to keep them all in place so you can see what the legal area is. Better hope you have a dozen spare 3" blast templates. And then also remember that wound allocation is per template, so you need to mark the center point of each of them until wound allocation is done so that you know exactly which model is the closest one.

I am rather disappointed with the codex , a lot of points shuffling , some new rules which make units still bad , removed units and chimervendetta points nerf . If this was the first codex in 6th or last in 5th , it probably could be viewed as ok . But now when it has to play against demons, eldar and necron it just doesn't cut it . There are no riptides , no seerstars , no units that say I make you win games. It is a lot like playing old IG codex ,only with the option to take armored company . If only our LR were comperable to riptides or there were ways to buff them against flyers/melee.

Makumba wrote:
I am rather disappointed with the codex , a lot of points shuffling , some new rules which make units still bad , removed units and chimervendetta points nerf . If this was the first codex in 6th or last in 5th , it probably could be viewed as ok . But now when it has to play against demons, eldar and necron it just doesn't cut it . There are no riptides , no seerstars , no units that say I make you win games. It is a lot like playing old IG codex ,only with the option to take armored company . If only our LR were comperable to riptides or there were ways to buff them against flyers/melee.

Im no competitive player, but looking at the orders combined with psykers and so on I think it will be ok. Nothing mega amazing, but at the end of the day, its codices that are mega amazing that causes the problems you mention.

plus there are all the allies that can provide buffs to our shooting and so on if the ones in the codex arent enough.

I agree the codex isnt much to be excited about from a casual point of view as well, but I do think we arent that badly treated.

It gets dicey when you remember that HQs can be tanks, Heavy Support can be something else.

I don't know many Space Marine armies that'd turn down the chance to take Leman Russes and Wyverns or whatever.

Oh and all the Divination stuff.

Again, the army on it's own is really good. It starts getting dicey when you start adding in Allies, Formations, Detachment of imperial knights etc.. etc..

But why take the AM psykers at all. I can get the same divination from Inqusitors and get servo skulls and pseudo interceptor. And that is of course allies , but other good armies can take them too. Just the fact that I can take allies , which isn't so easy with my army going over 100pts up in points , doesn't put AM at the level of eldar/tau or tau/tau or demon/csm. The codex doesn't give the stuff that was important to all good armies in this edition . Fast cheap troops,cheap anti air that is add to units and doesn't require specialisation in to only AA , powerful divination or telephaty casters . All we got was cover ignoring on an order.

It's the ML2 (at 75) that makes them so good by the way. You get the roll and you get the main power and it doesn't take up an FOC. Being able to manipulate the FOC and take allies is really good and really flexible especially when allying in with Imperial Knights.

Everyone is all "well I could always get a inquisitor". Yeah, you could now you can have a Imperial Knight Army with Tanks, Anti Air, Psykers, and troops where as before when you allied etc.. you had to kind of select : Do I take up heavy support with Anti air or with Tanks. It kind of effectively removes this. That's where it gets kind of abusive. It's almost like they were like what's the best way we could make it so that Imperial Guard would be an amazing ally for other forces.

I'm not a Imperial Guard player or a Imperium player, but given the choices now and the ability to manipulate FOC you can just pretty much take the best from 2 armies plus detachments.

It's all about manipulation of the FOC , and taking advantage of shoring up weaknesses through Ally.

It seems to be a less entertaining version of its former self. Certainly not Tyranid class, but not Eldar either.

Slightly unrelated, but has anyone else noticed how similar the new stormtroo..er... uh... "Tempestus Scions" look to the officers of the Principality of Zeon from the mobile suit gundam series? Real "original material" there gee dubs.

So, how did the Ogryns and Bullgryns get handled? This weeks WD tells all about how awesome and great those Bullgryns are, but are they?

StarHunter25 wrote:
Slightly unrelated, but has anyone else noticed how similar the new stormtroo..er... uh... "Tempestus Scions" look to the officers of the Principality of Zeon from the mobile suit gundam series? Real "original material" there gee dubs.

How so?
EDIT: Okay I kinda see where you're coming from but i don't think it's a copy... That look is hardly unique.

It's the ML2 (at 75) that makes them so good by the way. You get the roll and you get the main power and it doesn't take up an FOC. Being able to manipulate the FOC and take allies is really good and really flexible especially when allying in with Imperial Knights.

Inq don't take an ally slot either . Coteaz does cost 100pts , but he is an auto include in to any army that can take him and other inq can be as cheap as 65 too , 70+ with servo skulls . And what is important the inq casters do not get shot in the head , if they peril .

This weeks WD tells all about how awesome and great those Bullgryns are, but are they?

The shield ones cost too much for a cover unit. Both units are like tyranid warriors without synaps bubble for other units. If they costed 20pts less, they would be playable.

It's almost like they were like what's the best way we could make it so that Imperial Guard would be an amazing ally for other forces.

That is like telling a csm player , he should be happy , that his codex is good for one thing , being a helldrake tax for codex demons.

It's all about manipulation of the FOC , and taking advantage of shoring up weaknesses through Ally.

But at best this new AM codex didn't change a thing and at worse made taking ally harder , because of points hike on core units.

I am perfectly happy with the codex in terms of what it's added/changed. Very few things got objectively worse, and most things that were apparently bad got better.

Where I do take issue is with the stuff that has been outright removed. We have no way of outflanking units without one random Warlord Trait, SITNW is gone, most artillery is gone and Penal Legion are gone. Several characters were removed for no reason.


So it's great, as a codex, and perhaps less good as a replacement for the 5th Ed codex.

 Paradigm wrote:
... and Penal Legion are gone.

Out of pure curiosity.. any idea why do people mourn the Penal Legion? I know you are not in this post, just saying that they're gone, but I never understood why would anyone(again, not you) miss them and I'd really want to.

 Klerych wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
... and Penal Legion are gone.

Out of pure curiosity.. any idea why do people mourn the Penal Legion? I know you are not in this post, just saying that they're gone, but I never understood why would anyone(again, not you) miss them and I'd really want to.

They were cool.
Not necessarily any good but they've been a pretty cool part of 40k for a while.
The Last Chancers were badass.
Again an iconic unit.

Kierych and me come from a place where being "cool" is not enough to be cried about.

Although it is not like it would have been bad , if GW fixed penals to be good. Just let them blob up and give an option to switch las for las pistol/ccw . Wouldn't make them awesome , but at least they would have had a niche of their own.

 Klerych wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
... and Penal Legion are gone.

Out of pure curiosity.. any idea why do people mourn the Penal Legion? I know you are not in this post, just saying that they're gone, but I never understood why would anyone(again, not you) miss them and I'd really want to.

I suppose it is partly because I set myself a sort of self-appointed task to find a use for every unit in the IG codex somehow, and they were the only one I could never get to work, so I was hoping the new codex would help there. Other than that, they were a cool unit fluff-wise, and always fun to use in friendly games. Also, it's a case of a unit being removed for no reason, which annoys a lot of people, including me.

 purplefood wrote:

 Klerych wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
... and Penal Legion are gone.

Out of pure curiosity.. any idea why do people mourn the Penal Legion? I know you are not in this post, just saying that they're gone, but I never understood why would anyone(again, not you) miss them and I'd really want to.

They were cool.
Not necessarily any good but they've been a pretty cool part of 40k for a while.
The Last Chancers were badass.
Again an iconic unit.

I got more of a mercenary vibe than a prison soldier vibe from them.
I don't think prisoners would be allowed to choose how they fight or their equipment.

Conscripts represent the use of prison soldiers imo.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

 Klerych wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
... and Penal Legion are gone.

Out of pure curiosity.. any idea why do people mourn the Penal Legion? I know you are not in this post, just saying that they're gone, but I never understood why would anyone(again, not you) miss them and I'd really want to.

They were cool.
Not necessarily any good but they've been a pretty cool part of 40k for a while.
The Last Chancers were badass.
Again an iconic unit.

I got more of a mercenary vibe than a prison soldier vibe from them.
I don't think prisoners would be allowed to choose how they fight or their equipment.

Conscripts represent the use of prison soldiers imo.

They don't get to choose per say...
It's more like they nicked it...