Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm not sure this is the best place for this but I'm literally looking for other people to make a judgement call on this.

I've sort of painted myself into a corner in a very real sense. As I've mentioned in other thread my re-entry into the hobby has been a rather slap-dash, trial by fire experience. One of the projects that I took up to help with my re-entry into the hobby though was Lamenters and in my rush to have a *new* army be at least tabletop ready I may have overlooked a few things.

These are the raw models I have at my disposal:
1 Captain with a snazzy pistol(Technically an old OLD rogue trade Laspistol) and a power fist
2 guys with Grav Guns
3 guys with Combi Plasmas... one of which is an apothecary
2 Tactical squads consisting of ten marines each, one with a heavy bolter and one with a plasma gun. These squads are also modeled with snazzy buckler shields (explanation below)
5 guys with Jump packs and storm shields. One also has an obscenely huge axe and the others all have power fists.

So here's where things get dicey.

Lamenters are derived from Blood Angels. In the Badab War material, especially those produced by Forgeworld, it is recommended that Blood Angels rules be used for Lamenters. However Blood Angels, as of writing this, cannot take Grav Guns. On the other hand though everything else works. The Captain works fine, his pistol can count as some sort of Archaeotech Inferno pistol; the Jump pack guys can be Vanguard Veterans, the Sergeant having a Glaive Encarmine; and the tactical marines stay as tactical marines that just happen to have neat little shields.

ALTERNATIVELY

When I originally threw the force together about a month ago I had planned on using the Siege Vanguard Assault List (which is available for free from Forgeworld). The Siege Vanguard List was first printed in FW's Badab War books (I really have an interest in the Badab War, moreso than any conflict and it's been a running theme in all of my armies for years even before my hiatus and before FW put out their books) and depicts the sort of army that would be used in siege assaults or boarding actions. Hence why the tactical squads have shields... when I put them together they were going to have Siege Mantlets, an upgrade option unique to the list that while rather expensive in terms of points allows marines to re-roll failed armor saves from shooting attacks. In exchange for this book the squad in question counts as bulky and cannot select a dedicated transport but hey... re-rolling armor saves is awesome.

The Siege Vanguard list isn't tailored towards Blood Angels though. There's no way to include Death Company or Sanguinary Guard or Furioso Dreadnoughts or any of the other unique Blood Angels units. Part of me doesn't really think that's much of a problem though because Lamenters are supposed to be fairly tame and NOT PSYCHOTIC compared to their progenitors. So I was thinking that in lieu of a Chapter Tactics I could just apply The Red Thirst to squads as needed. This would also allow me to field a fairly normal command squad, with two Grav Guns and a normal Apothecary, and a squad of Vanguard Veterans led by a sergeant with a Relic Blade.


Now comparing these two conceptual forces reveals that they're really quite similar. Glaive Encarmine versus Relic Blade, Feel No Pain all over the place versus re-rolling Armor saves. But that also also makes it difficult to settle on an exact rule set.

I'd be fine with adding additional units, despite my desire to move on to other projects and not need to paint anything yellow ever again, but again... I can't really do that without actually settling on a set of rules.

So I look to my fellow players to make the call. And I realize this is like comparing bourbon to whiskey... they're very similar in many ways and both will accomplish the same end goal but they're still different prospects.

You could use the allies rules to add BA-specific units to a Siege Vanguard list. You'd need some way of displaying which models were from which detachment (such as a painted mark on the rim of the base).

Alternatively, depending on how easy-going your gaming group is they might let you use the BA codex as a base and just take the upgrades (the shields and grav guns) for the appropriate cost?

Rumour-mill says that BA should expect a new codex in the summer, which might add grav-guns but won't necessarily solve the issue of the shields.

Personally, I'd probably just get 2 marines to replace the grav-gunners - that way the list could be run as either BA (ignoring the shields) or as Siege (picking an appropriate CT) without any issues. It's the smallest expense that I can suggest.

 Quanar wrote:
You could use the allies rules to add BA-specific units to a Siege Vanguard list. You'd need some way of displaying which models were from which detachment (such as a painted mark on the rim of the base).

Alternatively, depending on how easy-going your gaming group is they might let you use the BA codex as a base and just take the upgrades (the shields and grav guns) for the appropriate cost?

Rumour-mill says that BA should expect a new codex in the summer, which might add grav-guns but won't necessarily solve the issue of the shields.

Personally, I'd probably just get 2 marines to replace the grav-gunners - that way the list could be run as either BA (ignoring the shields) or as Siege (picking an appropriate CT) without any issues. It's the smallest expense that I can suggest.

Well that's good to know about the possible Blood Angels release. I was unaware of such rumors.

But yes, I suppose I could just swap out the Grav gunners for something else and simply alternate as needed. I do have a box of random, squadless marines... some of which have stuff other than Bolters... that I could simply swap in.

It's a strange thing, I'd imagine, from an outside perspective. I don't want a sprawling collection of Lamenters. I just want around a 1000pts and I want it to be within the rules.

Thanks for the input though, it's very much appreciated

You could run them as a red scorpions seige vanguard list. Then you can have the shields AND fnp in your squads. For the BA specific units, ally them in like Quanar suggests.

Lamenters were sent on a repentant crusade after the badab war. Therefore they maybe having to scrounge weapons where they can. You could put together that squad of marines with multiple different weapons (I assume you are meaning rogue trader marines with lots of different weapon options, like your captain) and use it as a 'counts as' sternguard, so their ammo can represent all the different mismatch of weapons.

Poly Ranger wrote:
You could run them as a red scorpions seige vanguard list. Then you can have the shields AND fnp in your squads. For the BA specific units, ally them in like Quanar suggests.

Lamenters were sent on a repentant crusade after the badab war. Therefore they maybe having to scrounge weapons where they can. You could put together that squad of marines with multiple different weapons (I assume you are meaning rogue trader marines with lots of different weapon options, like your captain) and use it as a 'counts as' sternguard, so their ammo can represent all the different mismatch of weapons.

Also a good idea... and one that has led to a bit of inspiration as well
>:3