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The other way around, once you dont look at just winning, nids gives you many options on how to play, but its just that none of them is a tier 0 one.

So no, you haven't read the responses in the thread.

People aren't saying that the codex can't build some strong armies. It absolutely can. But it's boring.

The problem with the new psyker powers allowing you to build a new play style is that your list might not accommodate it.
Mawlocs are overrated.
Spores are only useful for now - until the coolest thing the can do gets FAQed (create spores from Biovores missing, charge with them that turn).
New flyer (singular) - People don't take it for the Vector Strike. They take it for the tentaclids.

Also, I have an issue with your description of the Doom:
"elite solo dude who can reliably kill multiple squads the turn he shows up on the board with several armies having little to nothing to do about it. " Reliably? Are you kidding? Demonstrably false. It was rare that he ever killed a single squad for me, let alone reliably multiple. Little to nothing to do? How do those armies handle Hammernator squads?

People are also complaining about the Synapse nerf. Not that the benefit changed (still Fearless) or that the range changed (still 12") but that being out of Synapse is so horrifically bad now... for no increase in benefit. That Lurking unit? There's ~25% per turn out of Synapse that they break and run away.

Most lists have room for 5 synapse creatures - once those are gone Instinctive Behaviour is just bad news bears.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Jackal:

Most nerfs and/or removals were of the annoying things that were unhealthy for the game. cheap troop unit MC that can spawn even more units, is a nightmare to remove is a strong unit, but a BAD one for the game, so it an elite solo dude who can reliably kill multiple squads the turn he shows up on the board with several armies having little to nothing to do about it.

The ones that require minimal brain functions to use properly got better though.
.

Well, I gotta say, after reading that entire post, you've convinced me to change my way of thinking.


You are right, Rippers were so annoying and bad for the game in the last codex, making them cost 9 points more was exactly what we needed to make the game more enjoyable!

/end sarcasm




You made one example - Tervigon - who was arguably in need of balancing. He was changed, but not balanced, instead hes far more unbalanced than he was before just on the opposite side of the spectrum now. Anyone still playing this guy is an idiot, plain and simple. Terrible 200 point troop choice. However in the last dex I could just as well build a list without him, and did many times. Although, that troop slot was seriously bare. However, contrary to your opinion, its even worse now, as our sensible options went from Termagant / Tervigon / Warrior, to just Termagant or Warrior.

Saying we now have the option of "nid air" aka flier spam doesn't mean much when we lost a similar option at the same time, Deepstriking bioRain. And tell me that was a less creative and fun playstyle than FMC spam, please, just say it =/

All the "new" psyker powers were already available if we wanted them bro. Now instead of having the option of codex powers and the powers from the rulebook (you know, the same powers all the other armies get access to), we have only lost options, not gained any.

 BoomWolf wrote:
The reason the nid codex looks bad to some, is because he is compared to the top of the top, but you are comparing a "tier 1" to a "tier 0", by this tier system:

blah blah blah,

So, nids are bad because they cannot pull an equal stand against lists that abuse multiple tier 0 choices at once? lists built directly to abuse MULTIPLE mistakes at the core game balance?

What? What what what?
Dude I don't know if you have selective memory or not, but the last dex couldn't do this either. I started playing Nids in 5th because I legitmately wanted an underpowered army. The last thing I want is this taken away from me, I love a challenging army. I just want more playable options inside my dex, we're not balancing them against Tau we are balancing them against themselves. I really suggest you read through some of the earlier posts in this thread (which you say you did, but I can tell you did not). All you have done so far is point out a couple of the very few positive things (that I will say were already mentioned) and twist other negatives to sound like they are positive.

Tervigon balance would have been nice, a couple of extra points. Tervigon being nerfed to unplayability would have also been acceptable to freshen lists up, assuming some of the other junk in the slot was made playable. But if you think the "changes" given to Hormagants / Genestealers / Rippers are balanced as is of now, your opinion on this dex is clearly skewed. I have thrown around the term "unplayable" a lot in this thread, but because it's so accurate. Horm is the only one there who is not a terrible unit in any dex, and in this one he's still borderline useless because he's basically just a more expensive Termagant who doesn't shoot and needs to get 18" closer to apply the same damage. Oh and can't take Devourers. Stop parading the Tervigon nerf as if it opened up options by giving us a more balanced troop slot, because it did exactly the opposite, look a little deeper than the surface.

 BoomWolf wrote:
The other way around, once you dont look at just winning, nids gives you many options on how to play, but its just that none of them is a tier 0 one.

Really? Because your whole thing sounded like "guys, Tyranids can compete with tier 2, everything's fine." Their ability to compete is not my problem, my problem is that the book is bland, uninspired, and rushed with terrible internal balance and rules that both restrict list building and do not match the Tyranid fluff. It feels too much like a NPC Codex.

Also, the support for Doom being removed is one of the stupidest statements I ever see in regards to people trying to support the dex changes.

"oh Doom was op and so many armies couldn't counter him"

SO THEN BALANCE HIM

The removal of a unique optional choice is not an improvement to the dex


EDIT: actual quote in question

 BoomWolf wrote:
so is an elite solo dude who can reliably kill multiple squads the turn he shows up on the board with several armies having little to nothing to do about it

Hooray for good logic. Let's support having less options if it means we get a dex that can win more games ! Then we will act like everyone else is only complaining because they didn't get a "Tier 0" codex ! Read their actual complaints? Sheesh that would be a waste of time, I'll just say I did because we all know the real reason any of them are less than pleased with their codex must be because they haven't taken home 1st place at all those upper level tournaments most of them don't actually enter, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
The other way around, once you dont look at just winning, nids gives you many options on how to play, but its just that none of them is a tier 0 one.

Really? Because your whole thing sounded like "guys, Tyranids can compete with tier 2, everything's fine." Their ability to compete is not my problem, my problem is that the book is bland, uninspired, and rushed with terrible internal balance and rules that both restrict list building and do not match the Tyranid fluff. It feels too much like a NPC Codex.

Oh yeah. This ^ x10000

It's funny, we were so good at overselling the Doom that people are still scared of it.

Tyranids have a tier 0 army, its the skyblight formation. As far as variety the army is one of the most varied model ranges in gaming. To boot the book features more options than most other books as far as raw choice. Most of the choices are not competitive; exactly like every army list ever made by GW. Ask Eldar players why the craftwolds only produce warp spiders nowadays.

They lost things, things with no models, things if you had modeled can be used as other stuff. Its not great but frankly its the same situation every army is in. You lose things, you gain things (were about even on lost and gained units).

The only true quibble was spores, mine are now terrain and void shield generators. They replaced a Space Marine gimmick and forced us back to playing like the fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The doom was a pile of rules used as a crutch to great effect. I'm frankly doing fine without that ezmode trash thank you very much.

 lazarian wrote:
Tyranids have a tier 0 army, its the skyblight formation.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 lazarian wrote:
Tyranids have a tier 0 army, its the skyblight formation.

The only reason I said tier 0 was in direct response to ad hoc definitions used in this very thread. Skyblight is too powerful for casual 40k and is public enemy #1 for the anti dataslate crowd. It turns Tyranids from a midling army to a TFG eye roll that is unfun and unfair to play.

Yet you list it in defence of Nids in 6th, however describe Doom as "EZmode trash", and support the decision to remove him from the dex as opposed to just balancing him if you felt he was OP, in favour of a +1000 pt formation? So much room for list building opened up right there!/sarcasm again

 lazarian wrote:
The only true quibble was spores, mine are now terrain and void shield generators. They replaced a Space Marine gimmick and forced us back to playing like the fluff.

Yeah, totally unfluffy to use spores to assault a planet. Never happened in the fluff at all.

The doom was a pile of rules used as a crutch to great effect. I'm frankly doing fine without that ezmode trash thank you very much.

... Wow. A Tyranid player calling the Doom ezmode trash? It was only good against players who had no idea how to deal with it. To players who did, it was simply an area denial unit.

Which, in a pod, was very effective. Not because it killed units (hell, it was uncommon for mine to live longer than 1-2 turns) but because it carved out a large section of the board as Tyranid only.

In other news it feel that Tau and Eldar are EZMODE TRASH right now, hoping that when 7th gets released they will be removed from the game as well. Stupid crutches that people rely on! Let them all burn next to Doom, the Mycetic Spore, and the worst offender of them all, The Parasite Of Mortrex! The game is better off without them! To hell with balancing, the game just got a new army with Imperial Knights anyway, so we gained about as much as we lost!

 SHUPPET wrote:
Yet you list it in defence of Nids in 6th, however describe Doom as "EZmode trash", and support the decision to remove him from the dex as opposed to just balancing him if you felt he was OP, in favour of a +1000 pt formation? So much room for list building opened upright there!/sarcasm again

In a perfect world we would have all of these lost options and more. We are dealing with a paradigm that does not give us that. My vitriol for the Doom comes from its supporters romanticizing a made up block of rules from the last book that never got model support. This block of rules were the annoying 'internet meme' of the last book. People would stink less over it if the rules sucked. Who gives a gak for most of the missing Guard crap for instance, only Marbo got played.

Were more on the same page than you realize. I own 6 spore mines, it sucks. With that loss however I'm not going full bore sunk cost fallacy. I'm playing my army and doing well with it, all while having fun.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:
In other news it feel that Tau and Eldar are EZMODE TRASH right now, hoping that when 7th gets released they will be removed from the game as well. Stupid crutches that people rely on! Let them all burn next to Doom, the Mycetic Spore, and the worst offender of them all, The Parasite Of Mortrex! The game is better off without them! To hell with balancing, the game just got a new army with Imperial Knights anyway, so we gained about as much as we lost!

You do know they make stuff to sell right? Post chapterhouse you can't be this mad can you? They make rules for what they have lying around. This sucks but can't come as a shock. Within this paradigm we were last man out. Orks are going to be chopped next, I strongly implore you to hold onto your butt if you play them since something you like may not be here soon.

Tau really can't beat Skyblight plus sensible terrain placement regardless. Eldar can't seemingly beat Daemons if Adepticon is any indication. Tyranids maul most of escalation unlike Eldar or the aforementioned Tau. The game isnt balanced so bemoaning balance only gets so far

GW isn't balancing crap, take what wins in your meta or gentlemens agreement lists that are fun.

rigeld-so you ASSUME bad faq on spores, and due to that they are bad? also comparing hammernators to doom is NOTHING alike, you got a turn to kill the hammernators or get away-doable. doom? fair chance of him dealing 300+ points worth of dead units the turn he hits the field, unless you had high LD army, or interceptor bonanza. he dealt insane damage before most players even get a chance to do anything about it. and about the synaps nerf? yes, true, it hits harder now, but also hits less as nowdays some units dont even care about losing it.


SHUPPET-never said EVERYTHING is good, rippers are an obvious flop. comparing biorain to FMC spam is pointless, as the two are nothing alike. and biorain honestly feels like a bad game concept in an army who's supposed "thing" is that he needs to get to you, but once he's there you are dead. and last dex did NOT abuse glaring mistakes in game balance? possible T9 FnP troops did NOT remove any game from the game? because it was SUCH a healthy mechanic to have your scoring troops be virtually unkillable by half the codcies out there?
Doom could NOT be balanced, his entire core "unique optimal choice" was exacly BECAUSE he did a craptop of damage, and there was nothing that could be done about it, just like sir marbo people keep crying about. things you cannot defend against are BAD design, either they are overwhelming and become no-brainers, or not getting enough done and become pointless. there is just no middle ground on "no response" type of things, in any game. no game ever managed to make such kind of abilities to work properly, because their very nature defies the basic principles of a game-interaction.
Also, your insistence that I don't even read what was written as complaints of the codex begins to annoy me, it appears that your mind cannot comprehend the fact some people look at things from different perspectives then you do, are not bothered by the same things, or do not see the same things as problem.
I care not about the nid codex, I care not about how powerful it is, or how unique, fluffy or even fun it is (thought I also disagree with you about these proportions, I'd rate them all higher then you apperantly)-I care about how HEALTHY it is to the game, and currently the nid codex IS healthy to the game, while the old one was not, due to a heavy sum of troubles caused by either specific unit's design, or by absurd interactions that overshadowed the parts of it that WERE fine, just like eldar codex is today, and to a lesser extend tau codex. (tau to a lesser extend because all of it's issues seem to intersect with the ion accelerator, making it the hub of them all)

 SHUPPET wrote:
In other news it feel that Tau and Eldar are EZMODE TRASH right now, hoping that when 7th gets released they will be removed from the game as well. Stupid crutches that people rely on! Let them all burn next to Doom, the Mycetic Spore, and the worst offender of them all, The Parasite Of Mortrex! The game is better off without them! To hell with balancing, the game just got a new army with Imperial Knights anyway, so we gained about as much as we lost!

Now you are just being a tard on purpose.
Eldar ARE ezmode, and need a vast fix, because they got many problems and they unraval the game hard, but unlike the doom-they CAN be fixed, they are not flawed by concept, but by pure strength. wave serphants can be fixed by simply nerfing the shield, and the seers by fixed the divination that causes problems across the entire game, not just the eldar. (and honestly, I still dont understand how the jetbike guardians can be troops, its ALSO a design mistake and they are obviously belonging to FA)
Tau on the other hand, got distbalized from one thing only, the ion accelerator, and should you make the tiny fix of tuning it to AP3, the entire army gets corrected by a domino effect (as it requires alternate low-ap sources to be taken to fix the glaring hole, who drains your HS or your EL slots-as only they got any, as well as your precious points, as plasmasides/plasmacrisis are not cheap-making the riptides less of a deal as you got less points to spam them to begin with, and even if you do, they cannot handle SV2 without going into probably lethal CC)

PrinceRaven-whole other problem there, and one I have not touched, I just talked about game health issues, not how enjoyable or fluffy the army is, the two issues-while have some connections, are not one and the same. new nid codex is far better for the game's health, but not nececerly more fluffy. as for restricted, I choose to disagree, the LAST codex was far more restricted, due to "no-brainer" choices that made most of your list completely obvious to the level of "doom in spore, fill out as many tervigons as possible, spice up with remaining points", because it was honestly just too good to even try anything else.


(and no, you were not "so good at overselling the doom", I have seen, and suffered the consequences, of a doom taking down over 300 points worth of models the moment his spore arrived, multiple times, by himself.)

 BoomWolf wrote:
I care not about the nid codex[...] I care about [a bunch of other gak]

Time for you to leave my friend, you've clearly misread the thread title

rigeld2 wrote:

 lazarian wrote:
The only true quibble was spores, mine are now terrain and void shield generators. They replaced a Space Marine gimmick and forced us back to playing like the fluff.

Yeah, totally unfluffy to use spores to assault a planet. Never happened in the fluff at all.

They own the fluff and have chosen to downplay that. This is lazy on their part, of course. If this is what reves your engine I strongly encourage you to find what is fun for you in the book. Ask someone to let you play said old book or just adapt like the Hive Mind would want you too.

Ultimately were here and spending this much time and effort over deriding it is the opposite of helpful. Chaos players get tiresome after a point with all their very valid, but ultimately meaningless, posts, we can do better and have our feathers unruffled in the process.

 BoomWolf wrote:
rigeld-so you ASSUME bad faq on spores, and due to that they are bad?

Given the trend with Tyranid FAQs, yes I expect a bad FAQ.
And no - that's not the only reason they're not great. They're (normally) a waste of a FA slot. So they only chance to interact with them is if a Biovore misses - meaning you'll be doing less damage on average.

also comparing hammernators to doom is NOTHING alike, you got a turn to kill the hammernators or get away-doable. doom? fair chance of him dealing 300+ points worth of dead units the turn he hits the field, unless you had high LD army, or interceptor bonanza. he dealt insane damage before most players even get a chance to do anything about it.

Not a chance. Losing 300 points of units to Doom the turn he drops is nothing but dice. It wasn't reliable.
High LD army? Like Necrons, Marines, many Eldar, etc... you do remember he allowed Cover saves, right?

and about the synaps nerf? yes, true, it hits harder now, but also hits less as nowdays some units dont even care about losing it.

Untrue. They always care about losing it (except Genestealers, who didn't care in the old codex either). Failing the LD test always has a negative effect.

Doom could NOT be balanced, his entire core "unique optimal choice" was exacly BECAUSE he did a craptop of damage, and there was nothing that could be done about it, just like sir marbo people keep crying about. things you cannot defend against are BAD design, either they are overwhelming and become no-brainers, or not getting enough done and become pointless. there is just no middle ground on "no response" type of things, in any game. no game ever managed to make such kind of abilities to work properly, because their very nature defies the basic principles of a game-interaction.

No one really cries about Sly (except now that he's gone).
And there is a response - not the turn he comes down, certainly, but every turn after that. Just like literally every shooting Deep Striking unit - you cannot respond the turn they come down.
Make him cost more. A 170 point non MC coming down in a pod would be relatively balanced. Taking pods away he'd have to have Eternal Warrior or something like it to cross the table though.

and to a lesser extend tau codex. (tau to a lesser extend because all of it's issues seem to intersect with the ion accelerator, making it the hub of them all)

Wait - a codex that literally gets to ignore many of the basic rules of the game for little to no cost is healthy?
Note that Target Lock, Multi-tracker, and Markerlights have literally nothing to do with the Ion Accelerator... plus Black Sun Filters.

(and no, you were not "so good at overselling the doom", I have seen, and suffered the consequences, of a doom taking down over 300 points worth of models the moment his spore arrived, multiple times, by himself.)

Then you were witness, multiple times, to very good dicerolling by your opponent and poor dicerolling by yourself. Simple fact. I won't deny that it happened (it happened for me once) but it's unlikely to happen.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
I care not about the nid codex[...] I care about [a bunch of other gak]

Time for you to leave my friend, you've clearly misread the thread title

Time to stop using snipping of sentences to alter the meaning of what I say to what fits your purposes, its the fist sign of having nothing of substance to say.

rigeld2 wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
and about the synaps nerf? yes, true, it hits harder now, but also hits less as nowdays some units dont even care about losing it.

Untrue. They always care about losing it (except Genestealers, who didn't care in the old codex either). Failing the LD test always has a negative effect.

False, on many MCs there is effectifly no downside even if you fail the LD check. we did a list of them once, there are like 10 units in the codex who has no synapse, yet lose nothing or nearly nothing when i they ail the check.

rigeld2 wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Doom could NOT be balanced, his entire core "unique optimal choice" was exacly BECAUSE he did a craptop of damage, and there was nothing that could be done about it, just like sir marbo people keep crying about. things you cannot defend against are BAD design, either they are overwhelming and become no-brainers, or not getting enough done and become pointless. there is just no middle ground on "no response" type of things, in any game. no game ever managed to make such kind of abilities to work properly, because their very nature defies the basic principles of a game-interaction.

No one really cries about Sly (except now that he's gone).
And there is a response - not the turn he comes down, certainly, but every turn after that. Just like literally every shooting Deep Striking unit - you cannot respond the turn they come down.
Make him cost more. A 170 point non MC coming down in a pod would be relatively balanced. Taking pods away he'd have to have Eternal Warrior or something like it to cross the table though

Nobody cried about sly because he was on a small enough scale to go unnoticed, but he WAS an design mistake, and a no-brainer.
The issue with doom is nothing at all the turn after he lands, he is unlikely to be allowed to live over a turn, but as he was last codex-he COULD kill over 1.5 times his cost the moment he dropped, with no response possible, no strings attached, and a cost low enough to be viable addition to any possible list.
WITHOUT pods, he's pointless. especially when the very thing that broke him turned into a generic psyker power-who anyone might get. a power that is not even a problem if you dont have a pod.

@BoomWolf - I think your ideas are being fought so hard because GW did none of that that balance the game. Look at the new AM dex that just game out...My guard friends are giddy like Christmas morning children and they should be... because that book should generate a meta shift of some kind.

My brand new skyblight army is already being changed because I've suffered back to back tablings by the new AM.

They are not going to "nerf" the eldar or tau or anything of that nature. The AM book is proof that they are not below pushing out new power books... So stripping out the uniqueness ( even if it was powerful) from the nids.. is pretty much a gut punch and then laughing about it.

There are scores and scores of people around me I can beat all day everyday with my Nids. Why? They play fluffy.. they don't understand the game or they just are not that good. Soon as I take that same list to even an RTT I'm lucky not to be in the bottom bracket. I take that list to a GT and its a fair bet I'm bottom bracket.

 lazarian wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 lazarian wrote:
The only true quibble was spores, mine are now terrain and void shield generators. They replaced a Space Marine gimmick and forced us back to playing like the fluff.

Yeah, totally unfluffy to use spores to assault a planet. Never happened in the fluff at all.

They own the fluff and have chosen to downplay that. This is lazy on their part, of course. If this is what reves your engine I strongly encourage you to find what is fun for you in the book. Ask someone to let you play said old book or just adapt like the Hive Mind would want you too.

Oh, I've adapted. I continue to play Nids and will for as far as I can tell.
I just took issue with your statement of "playing like the fluff" when the fluff supports spore pods.

Ultimately were here and spending this much time and effort over deriding it is the opposite of helpful. Chaos players get tiresome after a point with all their very valid, but ultimately meaningless, posts, we can do better and have our feathers unruffled in the process.

Someone asked if the codex was that bad. We're answering why we do/don't think so. That's a problem?

Suppose the people upset over the new Tyranid book 'win' every online message board discussion they foist into. What exactly is the endgame? They get to sit in the corner with Chaos players and use their hard won indignation as warmth. They get to be a south or north going Zax while most gamers build a freeway overhead and move on playing.

There is the slight chance that with enough Internet backlash we can get GW to realise they should have someone slightly more competent* heading the team and actually give them the time to do a decent job.

* Not that Cruddace is generally incompetent, he just clearly does not know what to do with Tyranids.

rigeld2 wrote:

 lazarian wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 lazarian wrote:
The only true quibble was spores, mine are now terrain and void shield generators. They replaced a Space Marine gimmick and forced us back to playing like the fluff.

Yeah, totally unfluffy to use spores to assault a planet. Never happened in the fluff at all.

They own the fluff and have chosen to downplay that. This is lazy on their part, of course. If this is what reves your engine I strongly encourage you to find what is fun for you in the book. Ask someone to let you play said old book or just adapt like the Hive Mind would want you too.

Oh, I've adapted. I continue to play Nids and will for as far as I can tell.
I just took issue with your statement of "playing like the fluff" when the fluff supports spore pods.

Ultimately were here and spending this much time and effort over deriding it is the opposite of helpful. Chaos players get tiresome after a point with all their very valid, but ultimately meaningless, posts, we can do better and have our feathers unruffled in the process.

Someone asked if the codex was that bad. We're answering why we do/don't think so. That's a problem?

It quickly delved into a sinkhole of negativity, like all of these threads. The book in a vacuum is in a good spot, especially with dataslates. It was a mess to get here but the OP answer can only be 'no'. Were doing fine.

Using the concepts of dataslates as a good "fix" is poor... as you have to pay $15 additionally of a book that's copy and pasted 5E with less choices and harsher restrictions on synapse.

Therefore a competitive list is one that either must use formations (if they are even allowed in your local scene), or you must maximize the number of units that can be effective outside of synapse, meaning an MC/FMC spam list.

Units that have been terrible got worse. Units that were good got deleted. An entire play style was deleted. No matter how you choose to hash it, you cannot look at a "glass half full" when it may be just a quarter full to begin with. It's been no secret that Nids have suffered with a bad book all through 5E and are now worse off again with a physically more expensive product that requires additional $15 purchases to make something that's worth a damn.

And what do we acheive by having negative threads? Hopefully people get fed up and start doing what we need the most: Stop buying GW product.

If people stop buying, then they either course correct or crash. We don't want the latter, we want the former. But if you complain and actively buy new product, then you're doing it wrong. The book isn't good even "in a vacuum". It's not a big enough change from the 5E book to warrant the price tag on top of deleting units, raising points costs, removing flexibility, and adding new units that are either tepid or spammable.

Addendum: The access to biomancy was completely fluffy for Tyranids. The fact that Iron Arm is an innately broken spell overall doesn't change this, it just highlights that one spell is bad. Which is the inherant outcome of not paying points for spells but for rolling them. At 35~50pts for Iron Arm, it'd be much more balanced.

The Tyranid codex isn't bad in a competitive sense. I've seen MC spam lists do well even in person. The problem with them is that the book suffers from incredibly bad internal balance which makes some units "Do not take if you want a chance at winning" status while making others "TAKE THIS!TAKE THIS!". The book is bad in that it discourages variety since you can't take most combinations of units without seriously hampering yourself. It also nerfed things that didn't need to be nerfed, removed some good units and gave strange price bumps where they weren't needed.

And now it's even worse with the new Data-slates. You thought Codex: FMC is bad? Prepare for Codex: Skyblight Formation.

You know a book is bad when NO ONE wants to actually design it. Look at the author for tyranids. Yeah.


There are two sides to being competitive. One is the tourney scene, where lists start min-maxing and only the broken units really see large quantities of play. Then there is being competitive in the casual scene. No one wants to lose every single casual game, it just isnt fun.

Where is Tyranids? Given just the basic codex, you end up with tourney competitive lists being nearly the only way to win even casual games. The sheer quantity of underpowered units in the new tyranid codex is nearly staggering. Where Eldar may have the worst unit in the game with Banshees, Tyranids then follow that with half the codex before you get to another armies' worst. Almost every single time you have a choice of two units, one is almost ALWAYS better for the vast majority of situations. Often the difference is so far apart that you cant build a list with the less powerful one and expect to win even casual games.


Whats even worse is that Tyranids was THE codex to break this current shooting meta. There is potential in the 6th rules to assault, you just have to have enough special rules to make assault viable. Throwing the ability to move through cover without slowing on most of the assault units would have been a great start. Then adding scout and outflank to a lot of other units would help reinforce the scattered nature of tyranid deployment. Adding things like lictor assault from deepstrike, giving genestealers assault from outflank and/ or stealth/shroud on outflank/infiltrate, and improving Mawloc and Trygon rules would have made tyranids into a more dynamic glass cannon assault army that focuses on mobility rather than a conventional army. Where 5th DE were the shooting glass cannons, Tyranids could have been the fast assault glass cannons for 6th.

Hell, 6th would have been a better addition of the had made assault Tyranids OP. Breaking the meta, requiring some counter-assault units to counter Tyranid speed, reducing the appeal of gunlines, and giving more of a use to vehicles with the lower AT ability of tyranid hordes would all have been GOOD for the game. But they made the codex literally as bland as possible without giving everything marine stat lines. Nothing stands out as an interesting role that did not exist in the 5th codex that was sub par back then.

2/10 codex writing. One of the biggest disappointments of all the codexes written since i started in 4th. Even the chaos codex doesnt match up to this. Sigh.... heres hoping for a 7th nid codex.

 BoomWolf wrote:
PrinceRaven-whole other problem there, and one I have not touched, I just talked about game health issues, not how enjoyable or fluffy the army is, the two issues-while have some connections, are not one and the same. new nid codex is far better for the game's health, but not nececerly more fluffy. as for restricted, I choose to disagree, the LAST codex was far more restricted, due to "no-brainer" choices that made most of your list completely obvious to the level of "doom in spore, fill out as many tervigons as possible, spice up with remaining points", because it was honestly just too good to even try anything else.

I have to aggree here. Every single list had 2-3 troops tervigon and a spored Doom. There wasn't that much choice before.
Doom +spore was too strong. Everyone said it killed at least it's point in enemie units and probably took fire from all the army for one turn. (or the enemie had to massively spread his army)

Sad thing, they decided to scrap both. I loved the idea of the spore pods, and it wasn't anything OP with the normal units. SPecialy how only one MC could be in one. If they still wanted to scrap spore pods, they could have left Doom and maybe up a bit his cost or a minor nerf. But then people would probably complain he's totally useless.

Tervigons. People act like it's total crap now, but it's still extremely good. Just not auto-include, but getting one as troop is awesome. Backfield synapse (you need it anyway for biovores, and units on objectives), will create at least one troop units, extremely tough MC troop to sit on one objective, one power, can take template.

I'm sad too about the Parasite (only way to use the free rippers models you get with termies) and the scytal nerf.

As for FAQs....it doesn't look like GW is planning to making any new ones. So no reason to assume they'll further nerf everything.

Overall, it's still a good fun codex, with formation there's a few different playstyle. And the models are awesomely uniques.

Addaran wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
PrinceRaven-whole other problem there, and one I have not touched, I just talked about game health issues, not how enjoyable or fluffy the army is, the two issues-while have some connections, are not one and the same. new nid codex is far better for the game's health, but not nececerly more fluffy. as for restricted, I choose to disagree, the LAST codex was far more restricted, due to "no-brainer" choices that made most of your list completely obvious to the level of "doom in spore, fill out as many tervigons as possible, spice up with remaining points", because it was honestly just too good to even try anything else.

I have to aggree here. Every single list had 2-3 troops tervigon and a spored Doom. There wasn't that much choice before.
Doom +spore was too strong. Everyone said it killed at least it's point in enemie units and probably took fire from all the army for one turn. (or the enemie had to massively spread his army)

It's true, the 5th book was unbalanced as well and some units were in severe need of a nerfing, so I was actually looking forward to the 6th book because I hoped it would make the book more balanced in general. However, it's basically a reprint of the 5th book, but with nearly all of our good units nerfed and almost no units buffed to make up for it (aside from Fexes, and that was just a points drop). Ditching spore pods makes playing against shooting armies extremely difficult without FMCs or mass outflanking. Instinctive behaviour is now a crippling weakness too. The new book just isn't fun to play with in general, which is a massive disappointment.

I disagree - it's a lot of fun if you're into Nidzilla (which I am).

I have several Mycetic spores, a Doom model, converted Ymgarl Stealers. a horde of rippers to accompany my soon to be converted Parasite. No, I am not happy with this Codex.
The last one was inspirational with giving us a flood of new units and psychic powers, the current one is basically a big "no-dinner-stay-in-your-room", without saying what our offensive action was.