Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Afternoon all,

Quick question regarding Skimmers and line of sight.

My opponent was looking to fire "under" a Tau Devilfish, on the basis that it was "hovering", albeit it was modelled with undercarriage down and no flying base, and there was no actual line of sight from the firing models, under the Devilfish, to my troops.

We couldn't find anything in the rulebook - point to note, this was my opponent's first game of 6th edition after a long hiatus.

Can anyone clarify, or point to a page number in the rulebook?

Cheers,

A.

 amimmortal wrote:
Afternoon all,

Quick question regarding Skimmers and line of sight.

My opponent was looking to fire "under" a Tau Devilfish, on the basis that it was "hovering", albeit it was modelled with undercarriage down and no flying base, and there was no actual line of sight from the firing models, under the Devilfish, to my troops.

We couldn't find anything in the rulebook - point to note, this was my opponent's first game of 6th edition after a long hiatus.

Can anyone clarify, or point to a page number in the rulebook?

Cheers,

A.

True LOS. If the miniature can't see his target, he's not shooting. Honestly, if you want logic to be apart of it then it's fine to allow it.
Going by the raw, how it is modeled is how it blocks LOS.

First, the devil fish has no rules stating it can be deployed without the flying stand.

When deployed correctly with the flying stand, any models that can actually see under the devilfish may shoot at the unit they see. It could be as little as the feet of the model your shooting at.

This of course also means that your enemy can shoot back at whatever he sees also.

back in 4th edition there was a rule for skimmers not blocking line of sight, but that no longer exists.

Now everything works off of true line of sight. If the model can see it he can shoot it, if he can't see he can't shoot.

An Eldar player I played with mounted his skimmers on a flying base with a slightly slanted magnet so he could change the angle of the skimmer to either block or reveal something.

I'm not sure if that is MFA, but that is the best way to get the result.

 Nilok wrote:
An Eldar player I played with mounted his skimmers on a flying base with a slightly slanted magnet so he could change the angle of the skimmer to either block or reveal something.

I'm not sure if that is MFA, but that is the best way to get the result.

That's obviously MFA. The models should be played with the base they get suplied with. A Waveserpent doesn't come with a flyer base.

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:

 Nilok wrote:
An Eldar player I played with mounted his skimmers on a flying base with a slightly slanted magnet so he could change the angle of the skimmer to either block or reveal something.

I'm not sure if that is MFA, but that is the best way to get the result.

That's obviously MFA. The models should be played with the base they get suplied with. A Waveserpent doesn't come with a flyer base.

I don't know, this looks a lot like the flying base that my Devilfish and his Waveserpents come with.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Large-Flying-Bases

There's the flying base and then there's the Flying Stem and Base that flyers use.

Its fun how GW named 3 of their different bases "Flying" with only of them being completely different.

 Nilok wrote:
Its fun how GW named 3 of their different bases "Flying" with only of them being completely different.

True, it's quite annoying.
But when they were first released, the name made sense. It's just with the introduction of a Flyers, they're unwilling to change the name of a pre-existing product.

The large and small flying bases are at least twenty years old while the flying stem is two or maybe three years old and was introduced when GW actually added flyers to the game.

I didn't play older editions, but didn't the old skimmer rules reflect them as being closer to flyers that could stop on a dime?

 BarBoBot wrote:
First, the devil fish has no rules stating it can be deployed without the flying stand.

When deployed correctly with the flying stand, any models that can actually see under the devilfish may shoot at the unit they see. It could be as little as the feet of the model your shooting at.

This of course also means that your enemy can shoot back at whatever he sees also.

Woah there... Just because you can be shot doesn't mean you can shoot back.

Consider a heavy weapons team shooting under a hammerhead at a broadside.. The heavy weapons team can see the feet of the broadside and therefore can shoot. However, in the Tau players turn (assuming nothing moved) then the broadside can only shoot back at the heavy weapons team IF it has line of sight to the hwt. It's entirely possible that the broadside won't have LoS because the hammerhead is in the way. LoS is measured from the models eyes or equivalent.

Did you finish reading my entire post? I said you can shoot at anything you can see under the skimmer and your enemy can shoot back at whatever he sees also... Care to explain how anything you said differs from that?

getting pretty off-topic here. To give a solid amalgamation of all of the answers above:
- Line of sight is always TRUE line of sight in the game.
- Your skimmers are SUPPOSED to have flying bases on them at all times, even if they are modeled with landing gear.

In your specific situation - if your friend said he was fine with your vehicles not using flying bases then that's on him. No line of sight could be drawn.

Since the Tau vehicle is SUPPOSED to be on a flying base, isn't modeling it sitting on the ground MFA? For this exact reason?

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:

 Nilok wrote:
An Eldar player I played with mounted his skimmers on a flying base with a slightly slanted magnet so he could change the angle of the skimmer to either block or reveal something.

I'm not sure if that is MFA, but that is the best way to get the result.

That's obviously MFA. The models should be played with the base they get suplied with. A Waveserpent doesn't come with a flyer base.

There is no rule stating that you have to do this. It's considered good form, though.

 TheCustomLime wrote:


There is no rule stating that you have to do this. It's considered good form, though.

BRB page 3, bottom left. The rules are written assuming the models are on their supplied bases. To use alternate bases requires house ruling and discussion between players.

His models were using the supplied bases, however they were modified with a magnet at a slight angle for both easy storage and the twist trick.

EDIT:
Here is an example of the trick using a ball between two magnets

 BloodQuest wrote:
Sorry for the delayed update - I've been down with the lurgey for a couple of days!

Anyway, the Wave Serpent instructions are up and can be found here:

http://www.themanufactorum.com/kits/eldar/wave_serpent/assembly.htm

Here's a quick pic of the unfinished model atop the new Large Flying Base. It's hard to tell from the picture, but it's at quite an extreme angle - the right wing is almost touching the table...

My previous BRB reference addresses this as well, calling them "unusually modeled bases". The rules written in the rulebook are assuming they are using the supplied bases and ONLY the supplied bases. No modifications or replacements. While using modified bases/replacement bases is common practice, you must agree with your opponent on how to treat them beforehand If they may cause situations such as this, and make an appropriate house rule.