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Hello,

The search function isn't working, so I apologize if I'm asking for (what I imagine) is a frequently asked question.

I'll preface this with a plea for a link if my intuition about this (potentially) FAQ is correct.


I have recently begun to dabble in WH40k (As opposed to being, predominantly, a WHFB player)

Whilst researching the various tactics so I can get a better feeling for what I should purchase to round out my army (DA), I've come across a ton of lists that have something called "Forgeworld" additions.

I've read some about what forgeworld is, and it appears to be something independent of GW.

This, obviously, raises some questions, like:

How common place is FW (in the US)?

Is it a luxury more than a necessity?

What advantages does FW bring to the game (fun factor, not holywtfbbq OP )?


The models look nice, but having played zero games of WH40k, it is not immediately clear to me what the appeal in a (seemingly) "House rules" mod that sees (again, seemingly) widespread use.


Thanks,

Forgeworld is a subsidiary of GW that focuses on more "boutique" and specialist model ranges. Forgeworld rules are legal in your average game of 40k, but you should keep their rules on hand and be willing to answer any questions people have. Some folks might whine about you using them because there's this idea of Forgeworld stuff being overpowered, when really there's a handful of units from Forgeworld which were overpowered at one point, most of which have been toned down since. It is a luxury more than a necessity, but this entire hobby is a luxury, so I don't know what exactly that means. Units from Forgeworld tend to have more fluffy/cool rules and less straight up effective ones, and their models are resin which is a harder material to work with than plastic.

If you're new to the game, play with regular "core" GW stuff for the time being. Forgeworld is meant to cater more to veteran painters, players, and painters.

Forgeworld is a part of of the GW company, They pretty much do their own thing. While the use of Forgeworld units is legal, people are not always familiar with their rules and may be uncomfortable playing against them.

I really don't know about how common it is in the US.

For the most part it is a luxury. However, most of the Super-heavies used for Apocalypse/Escalation come from them.

Most of the time there is no real advantage, their models are generally over-costed (point wise). For example, the Wraithseer is a Wraithlord with a slight stat boost, psychic powers, and some better wargear options, but costs an additional 65 points and comes with a Wraithguard/blade tax (you must take one unit of wraithguard/blade to take a wraithseer).

Forgeworld is a branch-off company that is still "owned" by GW but has completely separate sculpting and rules departments. Linky: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/

Forgeworld does make some very nice models, and rules including alternate army lists which are mostly balanced and occasionally a bit overpowered. The overpowered units have tarred the rest of FW to many TO's and players, leading to a blanket ban in some tournaments or games clubs - Games Workshop however, have declared that they are all fully legal in their own tournaments.

Forgeworld also does stuff for WHFB, under the guise of "Warhammer Forge", which includes a complete Chaos Dwarf army and some fairly large monsters.

With regard to DA specifically, Forgeworld is often used to bring a Mortis or Contemptor Dreadnought, which can have the Skyfire special rule as the DA Codex flyers are a bit under-whelming.

Currently, the majority output of FW is the Horus Heresy series, which delves 10,000 into the past of the 40k setting to the time of Primarchs. Alot of players find this era large chunks of fun to play.

I would view it more of a luxury than a necessity (I only have a few units or vehicle-upgrades myself), but that's just my opinion. I have no idea how common it is in the US.

Howdy Bryce, I hope you are enjoying your 40k experience so far.

As others have said FW is a branch of GWs business that sells resin kits for use in GW games. The rules for most FW models are in the imperial armour books and the Heresy books. As far as I know, in the UK FW models and rules are allowed at official GW tournaments thanks to the escalation supplement from GW and their new tournament pack.

Im not sure that there are any official GW tourneys in the US? but if you have a look at some of the recent rules packs for tournaments over there e.g. adepticon you should get a pretty good indication of whats generaly accepted.

Hope this helps

George

*edit*

I'm very jealous of our British gaming brothers, I follow loads on Twitter and these guys have more amazing FW models than anyone! I have several kits from a Warhound Titan, down to weapons for dreadnaughts. I love them! All the above is true about needing to have the rules, but mostly everyone loves to see FW kits. Always been accepted in games I've played.

The US is a pretty big place. There are certainly areas which frequently play FW models and others where people might look at you funny for putting one on the table. So check with your local group(s).

The models are certainly not necessary so te deciding factor really should be whether you like what's offered and want to use it. On a general level FW stuff tends to be more detailed and better looking than regular 40k models. At the same time they tend to be more of a "master builder" type of kit, depending on what you are after.

Rules wise, they certainly add a new dynamic to the game. The imperial armour books often have campaign systems built in.

 Brother SRM wrote:
Forgeworld is meant to cater more to veteran painters, players, and painters.

This is key. FW uses resin to make their models so they are not 'perfect' out of the mold. Some parts may be warped and need some extra time to build correctly. I bought a kit some time ago and it was warped by about 1/2 inch. Boiled it in water and put 3-4 college text books on top of it to flatten it out.

Jason

 Brother SRM wrote:

If you're new to the game, play with regular "core" GW stuff for the time being. Forgeworld is meant to cater more to veteran painters, players, and painters.

I disagree on this part! I have started my way on 40k TT by buying a squad of Grenadiers!

For practical purposes the difference between Forge World rules and 'core' GW rules is that the models are way more expensive. Most Forge World units are middle-of-the-road or worse from a power standpoint, and they're not usually harder or easier to play with, there's some base level of needing to figure out how to work with resin but once you're over that hump they're not appreciably harder to build or paint (Speaking as someone whose arsenal contains all of two Forge World models, so feel free to take the modeling advice with a grain of salt).

As for Dark Angels the most important Forge World units are the Contemptor Dreadnaught (used to improve access to anti-aircraft since our air-to-air plane is ineffective and overpriced and flakk Devastators are very expensive) and the Relic Predator (an all-round effective main battle tank with loads more weapon options than the standard Predator), both found in Imperial Armour Apocalypse 2013, both of which can be more cheaply and easily replaced with an Imperial Guard Allied detachment; they're cool and interesting but you don't absolutely have to have them.

FW is for players who want to build their own experience rather then run the netlists that tournament players run 24/7. It can also be used for special designs in some cases. If my opponent didn't want forgeworld rules I would have to say the Eldar Wasp looks way cooler then the warwalker and I would play them as such (if I ever decided to buy wasps)

I don't have any forgreworld items myself but I definitely wouldn't exclude them from games. I do use the forgeworld rules for my Armorcast scorpion superheavy tanks though.

Can't say about the US, but among my friends FW is slowly growing on them. One does not use, as he thinks it brings too much imbalance - not by power, but by number of choices (he plays IG/AM; has an entire book of stuff, while Tyranids have... 4 options?). But the others have no problem with it. The other communities in Brazil aren't against FW per se - it's more in a player-by-player basis.

I do like FW a lot. The rules they create are fun and different from the codex. More than anything, FW adds diversity.

It depends on the place, but I bet most stores have at least one person who owns at least one forgeworld model. It tends not to be a WHOLE lot more popular than that, given their price tags. You'll find the rare DKoK army and the like if you look hard enough.

It is, by any definition, a luxury. Well, unless the only point of you playing is to win games. Then it's likely a flat necessity. There's a vast difference, power-wise between allying in a guard army and allying in a guard army with beasthunter commissar vanquishers and invincible sabre platforms hiding behind an aegis.

As for what effects it has on the game, it's completely up to the player. If you spam cheese, your games will get cheesier. If you spam beautifully-painted DKoKs, then you will likely get the people you're playing with to get off their butts and actually get some painting done.

It just gives you options (which is the point of expansion material in the first place), but it's what you do with those options that matters.

 Ailaros wrote:
It is, by any definition, a luxury. Well, unless the only point of you playing is to win games. Then it's likely a flat necessity. There's a vast difference, power-wise between allying in a guard army and allying in a guard army with beasthunter commissar vanquishers and invincible sabre platforms hiding behind an aegis.

Sigh. Please stop posting this nonsense. You can rant all you like about overpowered FW lists, but there are plenty of overpowered codex-only lists that are just as bad, if not worse. There's no practical difference between allying in Sabre spam and taking a screamerstar or Revenant titan list.

As for what effects it has on the game, it's completely up to the player. If you spam cheese, your games will get cheesier. If you spam beautifully-painted DKoKs, then you will likely get the people you're playing with to get off their butts and actually get some painting done.

And please stop acting like "well painted awesome models" and "powerful list" are mutually exclusive concepts.

 jason1977 wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
Forgeworld is meant to cater more to veteran painters, players, and painters.

This is key. FW uses resin to make their models so they are not 'perfect' out of the mold. Some parts may be warped and need some extra time to build correctly. I bought a kit some time ago and it was warped by about 1/2 inch. Boiled it in water and put 3-4 college text books on top of it to flatten it out.

Jason

Really? must have been some foul luck then, none of my forgeworlds came the least bit warped.

Building tetras was a pain though, so many small parts interconnecting. (the have individual HANDLES for the driver x_X)


As for the "overpowered" claims, in all honestly I call BS. the most powerful combos are in-codex, and there are only a handful of FW models who are amazingly cost-effective (sabre platforms...anything else these left days?) and FW is not shamed to hit things with the nerfbat, or even update whole units and army lists outside of books makes the internal balance honestly better.

What is does do to "imbalance", is open up whole new strategies by the power of having options that did not formerly exist, such as having new chapter tactics to play with, characters to lead your army, or units that cover gaps in the regular lists (such as the dreads helping DA's lack of anti-air) or even whole new armies, and all the tricks you need to get used to.
Though now that allies are in the game, even the "hybrid armies" that they used to bring out as something unique (like "lost and damned" who were half IG half CSM, "tyrant legion" who are a mix between guard, SM and CSM and eldar corsaiers who take a bit off eldar and dark eldar) are even less impactful, as combined armis can be made with codecies alone.


Overall, FW is awesome looking, decent rules and fun all around.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 jason1977 wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
Forgeworld is meant to cater more to veteran painters, players, and painters.

This is key. FW uses resin to make their models so they are not 'perfect' out of the mold. Some parts may be warped and need some extra time to build correctly. I bought a kit some time ago and it was warped by about 1/2 inch. Boiled it in water and put 3-4 college text books on top of it to flatten it out.

Jason

Really? must have been some foul luck then, none of my forgeworlds came the least bit warped.

I'd say you've been particularly lucky. I'm struggling to think of any kits I've bought that haven't been at least slightly warped. Gun barrels are almost always warped and sometimes even large thick parts have a bit of warp to them.

I've never had a problem hot water couldn't fix

 Ailaros wrote:
It depends on the place, but I bet most stores have at least one person who owns at least one forgeworld model.

This made me remember another thing I've read many times here and in other forums: LGSs that don't sell FW usually don't like to see (or outright ban) people using it. Check with your store and gaming group about FW use, just to prevent the staff holding your hand on using it.

It depends on the place you play as others said , but the army you picked too. Even if you play somehwere where FW is accepted , it doesn't mean you have to buy their stuff.
Tau for example have no must take units , some armies like sob are in the same situation .Marines only have must haves if you want to run FW chapters and even then not all of them , because some are good with just the chapter tactics , while other are balanced around the FW special HQs. Eldar have a must have only , if your area plays escalation . Then buying a titan is a must . Because Dark Eldar use the same titans it is the same for them . If you play AM like me , buying saber weapon platforms is a must after vendetta price nerf.

Dr. Bizarre wrote:
I've never had a problem hot water couldn't fix

For the most part, yeah, same, but I have had a few gun barrels that just don't want to stay straight. It's why I much prefer plastic for anything with a gun barrel that might not be straight, I hate the look of droopy or warped gun barrels, even if you look on the FW site some of the studio assembled and painted models have warped barrels.

Forgeworld has far superior models compared to those GW has and they have a broad range of models, despite clearly preferring the Empire of Men. Their models awesome, but ridiculously overpriced. Yes, even worse than GW.

Their books are top-notch too, rules left aside.The books have a good, clear layout, provide lots of rules and nice imaginery.

The rules are a different problem. Most of the FW stuff is rather below-average, but the usual hate towards FW stems from a few very overpowered units, mostly IG. Therefore, a lot of people have trouble with using FW. Right now, though, it really doesn't matter as GW purposefully destroyed every single last bit of balance 40k had. Throwing OP FW stuff on the pile won't do any harm anymore.

Another problem is availability of rules: barely anyone is familiar with them and more often than not, if you win, people immediately blame FW. Rule #1: always bring your FW rules with you. I won't play vs. anyone who did not have his FW rules ready. Whether in form of a .pdf or print doesn't matter. I always use the former as I don't want to carry the entire IA12 around just to show people the rules for my Sentry Guns.

Forge world is pretty self explanatory. It's the focus on the pre heresy era line up plus offers apocalypse size items to feed those bigger tournaments at 3000pts and above. They are highly detailed resin based minis with loads of money needed to buy even a small item.

They are however desirable and even on eBay they go for big bucks. I for one would love to a add a couple of contemplar dreads and maybe a sicarus tank. I would love a 400 quid thunderhawk too but I've got no room to put it plus that kind of money would surely end in flames for me if my wife found out

FW offers a lot of non-Apo and non-30k stuff, just throwing Fall of Orpheus out there.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 jason1977 wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
Forgeworld is meant to cater more to veteran painters, players, and painters.

This is key. FW uses resin to make their models so they are not 'perfect' out of the mold. Some parts may be warped and need some extra time to build correctly. I bought a kit some time ago and it was warped by about 1/2 inch. Boiled it in water and put 3-4 college text books on top of it to flatten it out.

Jason

Really? must have been some foul luck then, none of my forgeworlds came the least bit warped.

I've put together FW models ranging in size from MKIII Space Marines to a Chaos Warhound Titan. Most kits had little-to-no warping. However, thin pieces and long barrels, like the ones below, tend to have warping issues. Sometimes it's pretty serious. I've been able to correct with the hot water, bend, cold water technique, though. Flashing can be much worse than standard 40k models, though. You'll need to invest some clean-up time before assembly if you want your models to look their best.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
For practical purposes the difference between Forge World rules and 'core' GW rules is that the models are way more expensive.

Surprisingly this is no longer necessarily true. Character models by FW are identical in price to GW plastic and Finecast characters. If you look at the cost of Dire Avengers or Tempestus Scions, they're more expensive that Death Korps infantry of all types. Some FW stuff is still expensive, but more and more core GW is matching FW's pricing.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
For practical purposes the difference between Forge World rules and 'core' GW rules is that the models are way more expensive.

Surprisingly this is no longer necessarily true. Character models by FW are identical in price to GW plastic and Finecast characters. If you look at the cost of Dire Avengers or Tempestus Scions, they're more expensive that Death Korps infantry of all types. Some FW stuff is still expensive, but more and more core GW is matching FW's pricing.

Indeed, last year I ordered two Warp Hunters from FW. They are basicly Fire Prism kits with an extra turret and cannon. After the exchange rates, the Warp Hunters cost me a whooping extra $3 for an extra turret on an Fire Prism kit. Not bad. Less than a pot of paint.

Here in New Zealand, regular GW prices have reached the point where it's actually cheaper to buy FW models than to get the plastic ones from a local store.

$87 NZD for a squad of plastic terminators
$70.95 NZD to get a squad of forgeworld terminators

So I've found FW models are getting pretty common. I have a friend using nothing but forgeworld MK4 armour for the regular marines in his army.