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Named characters.

It's my army with my own fluff, so I won't put Creed in it even if it's the best thing ever.

 slowthar wrote:
I would love to field a superheavy in our Apoc games, but I cannot stomach buying/painting/fielding a Lord of Skulls. Has to be the DUMBEST looking model I've ever seen, on top of being stupid expensive.

I felt the same way, but getting to look at one that's painted in person (albeit a reasonably simple paint scheme, but the guy had a week to assemble and paint it for display in the store), it's grown on me.

Granted, it also helps that the thing has a reputation for being obnoxiously hard to kill and very good at killing other things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hellpato wrote:
For my Iron Warriors, half of the CSM codex (cultists, possessed, mutilator, everything with a mark, spawm, raptors, warp talons, helldrakes, havoc with autocannon, defiler, obliterator,).

It get it with a lot of those, but some of them I'm a bit confused about...

Heldrake & Defiler - Yes, they're "daemon possessed," but so are the Maulerfiend and Forgefiend, and I don't see the Iron Warriors turning away a vehicle just because it was suddenly possessed. Also, IIRC, they use daemonic energies to power things at times (i.e. their "mutations" which are really just daemonically-powered bionics).

Havoc with Autocannon - Any particular reason other than effectiveness? I have a couple of them, don't use them only because I already have a bunch of lascannons and missile launchers, and I like hard-hitting guns.

Obliterator - Same thing as above on the daemon point. Technically, they'd fit in the fluff, and in 3.5, IW were the only legion that could take more than one unit. You can grab some Terminators and spare weapons and model some without all the fleshy bits, so they look more IW.

Marked stuff, Raptors, Warp Talons, Cultists, Spawn, Possessed, totally understand those not being included. Though I occasionally make exception on Marks with my Daemon Prince, because I have an awesome Daemon Prince model and I like to still use it, but he has to be marked (booooooo).

 ErikSetzer wrote:

 hellpato wrote:
For my Iron Warriors, half of the CSM codex (cultists, possessed, mutilator, everything with a mark, spawm, raptors, warp talons, helldrakes, havoc with autocannon, defiler, obliterator,).

It get it with a lot of those, but some of them I'm a bit confused about...

Heldrake & Defiler - Yes, they're "daemon possessed," but so are the Maulerfiend and Forgefiend, and I don't see the Iron Warriors turning away a vehicle just because it was suddenly possessed. Also, IIRC, they use daemonic energies to power things at times (i.e. their "mutations" which are really just daemonically-powered bionics).

Havoc with Autocannon - Any particular reason other than effectiveness? I have a couple of them, don't use them only because I already have a bunch of lascannons and missile launchers, and I like hard-hitting guns.

Obliterator - Same thing as above on the daemon point. Technically, they'd fit in the fluff, and in 3.5, IW were the only legion that could take more than one unit. You can grab some Terminators and spare weapons and model some without all the fleshy bits, so they look more IW.

Marked stuff, Raptors, Warp Talons, Cultists, Spawn, Possessed, totally understand those not being included. Though I occasionally make exception on Marks with my Daemon Prince, because I have an awesome Daemon Prince model and I like to still use it, but he has to be marked (booooooo).

Yeah I was puzzled too.

IW are known to use cultists in many interesting and effective ways. In adition to basic units of all sorts, they use traitor guard equivalent, well equipped, trained & indoctrinated. By the way, Forgeworld just gave these forces a name: Thorakata.

Mutilators (close combat Oblits), Obliterators and Havocs are 100% IW stuff. More than any other legion.


And I feel your pain: the Daemon Prince is a no-no because for some stupid reason now it must be marked.

 da001 wrote:

 ErikSetzer wrote:

 hellpato wrote:
For my Iron Warriors, half of the CSM codex (cultists, possessed, mutilator, everything with a mark, spawm, raptors, warp talons, helldrakes, havoc with autocannon, defiler, obliterator,).

It get it with a lot of those, but some of them I'm a bit confused about...

Heldrake & Defiler - Yes, they're "daemon possessed," but so are the Maulerfiend and Forgefiend, and I don't see the Iron Warriors turning away a vehicle just because it was suddenly possessed. Also, IIRC, they use daemonic energies to power things at times (i.e. their "mutations" which are really just daemonically-powered bionics).

Havoc with Autocannon - Any particular reason other than effectiveness? I have a couple of them, don't use them only because I already have a bunch of lascannons and missile launchers, and I like hard-hitting guns.

Obliterator - Same thing as above on the daemon point. Technically, they'd fit in the fluff, and in 3.5, IW were the only legion that could take more than one unit. You can grab some Terminators and spare weapons and model some without all the fleshy bits, so they look more IW.

Marked stuff, Raptors, Warp Talons, Cultists, Spawn, Possessed, totally understand those not being included. Though I occasionally make exception on Marks with my Daemon Prince, because I have an awesome Daemon Prince model and I like to still use it, but he has to be marked (booooooo).

Yeah I was puzzled too.

IW are known to use cultists in many interesting and effective ways. In adition to basic units of all sorts, they use traitor guard equivalent, well equipped, trained & indoctrinated. By the way, Forgeworld just gave these forces a name: Thorakata.

Mutilators (close combat Oblits), Obliterators and Havocs are 100% IW stuff. More than any other legion.


And I feel your pain: the Daemon Prince is a no-no because for some stupid reason now it must be marked.

Ok, first, sorry for my bad spelling, French canadian guy trying to write in English with window 8 and I cannot find the autospelling.

I played IW since 3ed and it was a heavy mecanised army and IW was more like bad space marine who used a lot of firepower. In the new CSM codex, the 6ed don't gave me what I expected for the CSM.

Heldrake is very good but doesn't fite (for me) with the IW. The Hell Talon and the Hell Blade are better IMO.

Defiler... better use the Soul Grinder or other stuff like the Maulfiend and Forgefiend.

Havoc with autocannon only because of the mathammer and competitive players. Ok, that stupid for me but I stick with my decision.

Cultists, better use IG as allied. I found that cultists are better with Alpha Legion or Word Bearers. IG or the Chaos Renegades bring more fire power that the Cultists.

Obliterators and mutilators are bad IMO. They give you a lot of options but I will have more havocs or chosen with a lot of plasma gun.

Leman Russes (all variants) They're so ugly, and since I mostly like painting and modeling its not worth it to me - I'd rather take a squadron of scout sentinels or an inquisitor and friends...

Aegis Defense Lines - not my style, I like to bring the firepower to my enemies.

Taurox - again its so ugly... I have no idea how to make it look truly good without massive amounts of tricky work, at least the Lemon Russ has small amounts of rugged charm.

Commissars - again not my style, I like to keep my tougher guys alive, thank you kindly.

Gundams and Dinosaurs.

I just .... no...

The aesthetic of Riptides, Wraithknights, Fiends, and Heldrakes just drive me insane.

Heldrake just because it is too broken. Also, never wraithknights, never Dreadknights, never mutilators, never riptides. Not way too many but quite a couple.

 hellpato wrote:
Ok, first, sorry for my bad spelling, French canadian guy trying to write in English with window 8 and I cannot find the autospelling.

I played IW since 3ed and it was a heavy mecanised army and IW was more like bad space marine who used a lot of firepower. In the new CSM codex, the 6ed don't gave me what I expected for the CSM.

Heldrake is very good but doesn't fite (for me) with the IW. The Hell Talon and the Hell Blade are better IMO.

Defiler... better use the Soul Grinder or other stuff like the Maulfiend and Forgefiend.

Havoc with autocannon only because of the mathammer and competitive players. Ok, that stupid for me but I stick with my decision.

Cultists, better use IG as allied. I found that cultists are better with Alpha Legion or Word Bearers. IG or the Chaos Renegades bring more fire power that the Cultists.

Obliterators and mutilators are bad IMO. They give you a lot of options but I will have more havocs or chosen with a lot of plasma gun.

Okay, so with some of those choices, it's more a game effectiveness thing than "they don't fit IW." Okay, that makes sense. I agree on IG allies rather than Cultists because it feels more thematic.

The Soul Grinder over Defiler... that I'm not really keen on. The Defiler is a war machine that's had some daemon essence infused in it. The Soul Grinder is literally a daemon that's become fused with a machine. It's more daemon than machine, which is why it's in the Chaos Daemons list. Also more of a close combat type of monster, in my opinion. But yeah, its fluff is how I can feel okay with a 1K Daemon list running a Keeper of Secrets, four Fiends of Slaanesh, Soul Grinder of Tzeentch, and two units of Horrors... the Soul Grinder is the Horrors' leader. (Okay, I feel a little dirty with how effective the list has been proving, but eh, whatever.)

My IW army is mostly power armor guys with lots of guns, a Predator or Vindicator, and a Helbrute or two, at least most of the time. I have a few other options, but I do tend to like the idea of them as a gunline.

Ratlings
Anything Nurgle or Khorne, although I MIGHT make some of the FW terminators solely to use in apoc games. Also, I have tossed around the idea of using LotR minis for a Khornate daemon army from time to time.
Darkshrouds
Flayed Ones
Thunderwolf Cavalry, I just can't get past the silliness of power armored Space Marines riding giant wolves. 40k abounds in silly stuff, but that's too far for me.
Pyrovore. Perhaps they'll give it torrent in the next codex, but a lone critter hauling around a heavy flamer? No.
Vespid
Kroot of any kind.
Stormraven and Stormtalon look just too dumb unless they're substantially converted.
Orks, of any kind, ever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Mutilators.

One day I may make alternate models for them (Like converting Assault Centurions, like I am converting Devastator Centurions to act as Obliterators) but until then I will never consider using them.

Besides, I have enough assault utility in my army as it is.

Mutilators just look soooo bad. I'm using Tomb Kings Ushabti for them, for my Thousand Sons.

Orks: Flashgitz. Local ork player loves them to death for some reason, i view them as melee monsters that try to be shooty guys for the same cost as the melee monsters, without the oversized stick as a backup plan. Cost as much as my damn bikernobz before theyre effective, and still do way less work.

Tau: More of a tactic than a unit. Pathfinders.
Pathfinders are cheap as hell markerlights. they get expensive when you add the fancy toys and a devilfish so they can actually get somewhere FAST and dont do much outside shoot 1 unit and hope you caused enough damage to be worth it. Railrifles are awesome stat-wise, but not in THAT unit lol. Even if i added 30pts a squad for 1 damn rail rifle, i would totally add it to firewarriors if it would let me.

 ErikSetzer wrote:

 hellpato wrote:
Ok, first, sorry for my bad spelling, French canadian guy trying to write in English with window 8 and I cannot find the autospelling.

I played IW since 3ed and it was a heavy mecanised army and IW was more like bad space marine who used a lot of firepower. In the new CSM codex, the 6ed don't gave me what I expected for the CSM.

Heldrake is very good but doesn't fite (for me) with the IW. The Hell Talon and the Hell Blade are better IMO.

Defiler... better use the Soul Grinder or other stuff like the Maulfiend and Forgefiend.

Havoc with autocannon only because of the mathammer and competitive players. Ok, that stupid for me but I stick with my decision.

Cultists, better use IG as allied. I found that cultists are better with Alpha Legion or Word Bearers. IG or the Chaos Renegades bring more fire power that the Cultists.

Obliterators and mutilators are bad IMO. They give you a lot of options but I will have more havocs or chosen with a lot of plasma gun.

Okay, so with some of those choices, it's more a game effectiveness thing than "they don't fit IW." Okay, that makes sense. I agree on IG allies rather than Cultists because it feels more thematic.

The Soul Grinder over Defiler... that I'm not really keen on. The Defiler is a war machine that's had some daemon essence infused in it. The Soul Grinder is literally a daemon that's become fused with a machine. It's more daemon than machine, which is why it's in the Chaos Daemons list. Also more of a close combat type of monster, in my opinion. But yeah, its fluff is how I can feel okay with a 1K Daemon list running a Keeper of Secrets, four Fiends of Slaanesh, Soul Grinder of Tzeentch, and two units of Horrors... the Soul Grinder is the Horrors' leader. (Okay, I feel a little dirty with how effective the list has been proving, but eh, whatever.)

My IW army is mostly power armor guys with lots of guns, a Predator or Vindicator, and a Helbrute or two, at least most of the time. I have a few other options, but I do tend to like the idea of them as a gunline.

Yep, I see it was a mix of "doesn´t fit with IW" with "not good enough" and "not my liking".

Defilers are war machines infused with something daemonic through the use of sacrifices. I think (don´t remember where I read this and may be wrong) they were supposed to be a Black Legion thing first, with a Sorcerer doing some stuff to make it work. By the way, there were astartes inside the central piece of the defiler, tortured to death or near death yet somehow giving something to the Defiler. So it is a mix between a dread and a daemon and something new. Anyway it is easy to take the Defiler as a count-as for the countless types of daemonic engines the IW and the Dark Mechanicus use.

Sould Grinders are Chaos Daemons who get a "bionics upgrade" equivalent thanks to the Soul Forge, an independent force inside Chaos that deals with technology. I wouldn´t use Daemons as allies for Iron Warriors though.


I used to play in 5th a list with 3 predators, 2x Daemon Princes and basic CSM & Rhinos. I also used Chosen as count-as Havocs (which means I called them Havocs in spite of being Chosen). I do not like Oblits (dislike the model), so I didn´t field them. If I am to play IW in sixth I will get a Warpsmith and a cheap cultist squad. I will also contemplate the possibility of getting IG allies as, er, Thorakata. Fits better. I will not use Defilers because at 195 pts they are borderline garbage, or at least I think they are, and CSM without Heldrakes is already hard mode. And the DPs are unfluffy since the last retcon.

So at least in my case the reasons for not fielding an unit are many: too overpowered, too weak, ugly model... The most frecuent is: it is unfluffy.

Necron Wraiths - I run 4-6 flyers in my cron lists and already have to listen to enough whining about those, RP, haywire, D&D, and MSS...and that's from opponents who are winning

I think leaving the wraiths out is best for everyone's well-being. I've never even bought the models despite how much I love them.

 da001 wrote:

 ErikSetzer wrote:

 hellpato wrote:
Ok, first, sorry for my bad spelling, French canadian guy trying to write in English with window 8 and I cannot find the autospelling.

I played IW since 3ed and it was a heavy mecanised army and IW was more like bad space marine who used a lot of firepower. In the new CSM codex, the 6ed don't gave me what I expected for the CSM.

Heldrake is very good but doesn't fite (for me) with the IW. The Hell Talon and the Hell Blade are better IMO.

Defiler... better use the Soul Grinder or other stuff like the Maulfiend and Forgefiend.

Havoc with autocannon only because of the mathammer and competitive players. Ok, that stupid for me but I stick with my decision.

Cultists, better use IG as allied. I found that cultists are better with Alpha Legion or Word Bearers. IG or the Chaos Renegades bring more fire power that the Cultists.

Obliterators and mutilators are bad IMO. They give you a lot of options but I will have more havocs or chosen with a lot of plasma gun.

Okay, so with some of those choices, it's more a game effectiveness thing than "they don't fit IW." Okay, that makes sense. I agree on IG allies rather than Cultists because it feels more thematic.

The Soul Grinder over Defiler... that I'm not really keen on. The Defiler is a war machine that's had some daemon essence infused in it. The Soul Grinder is literally a daemon that's become fused with a machine. It's more daemon than machine, which is why it's in the Chaos Daemons list. Also more of a close combat type of monster, in my opinion. But yeah, its fluff is how I can feel okay with a 1K Daemon list running a Keeper of Secrets, four Fiends of Slaanesh, Soul Grinder of Tzeentch, and two units of Horrors... the Soul Grinder is the Horrors' leader. (Okay, I feel a little dirty with how effective the list has been proving, but eh, whatever.)

My IW army is mostly power armor guys with lots of guns, a Predator or Vindicator, and a Helbrute or two, at least most of the time. I have a few other options, but I do tend to like the idea of them as a gunline.

Yep, I see it was a mix of "doesn´t fit with IW" with "not good enough" and "not my liking".

Defilers are war machines infused with something daemonic through the use of sacrifices. I think (don´t remember where I read this and may be wrong) they were supposed to be a Black Legion thing first, with a Sorcerer doing some stuff to make it work. By the way, there were astartes inside the central piece of the defiler, tortured to death or near death yet somehow giving something to the Defiler. So it is a mix between a dread and a daemon and something new. Anyway it is easy to take the Defiler as a count-as for the countless types of daemonic engines the IW and the Dark Mechanicus use.

Sould Grinders are Chaos Daemons who get a "bionics upgrade" equivalent thanks to the Soul Forge, an independent force inside Chaos that deals with technology. I wouldn´t use Daemons as allies for Iron Warriors though.


I used to play in 5th a list with 3 predators, 2x Daemon Princes and basic CSM & Rhinos. I also used Chosen as count-as Havocs (which means I called them Havocs in spite of being Chosen). I do not like Oblits (dislike the model), so I didn´t field them. If I am to play IW in sixth I will get a Warpsmith and a cheap cultist squad. I will also contemplate the possibility of getting IG allies as, er, Thorakata. Fits better. I will not use Defilers because at 195 pts they are borderline garbage, or at least I think they are, and CSM without Heldrakes is already hard mode. And the DPs are unfluffy since the last retcon.

So at least in my case the reasons for not fielding an unit are many: too overpowered, too weak, ugly model... The most frecuent is: it is unfluffy.

LOL, I'm thinking that most of the IW players built there army with : Chaos lord, Warpsmith, 1 or 2 hellbrute (or Chaos decimator is a must ) lot of CSM, havoc, predators and vindicator. Everithing else doesn't fit :

I'm a Guard/Marine player, and I generally avoid stuff which is too powerful. Most of my armies revolve around things people perceive as being underpowered, mediocre or the like, and are heavily themed.

I have a minotaurs army revolving around tactical terminators and dreadnoughts; take that meta! I don't so much as outright refuse to use certain units (with some exceptions, manticores are too powerful in my opinion, centurions are feth ugly, abhumans have no place in my Steel Legion or Death Korps, etc), but more don't have a place for stuff in what tend to be very focused armies.

In fact, the only consistent "will not use" for me is Psykers. I tolerate a librarian in my Blood Ravens for fluff reasons, but I've begun to associate psykers, especially divination psykers with some serious shenanagins, and generally don't care for that sort of thing. Besides, who needs fancy mind powers when you've got a good old fashioned bayonet with some guts behind it.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Necron Wraiths - I run 4-6 flyers in my cron lists and already have to listen to enough whining about those...

Thats just the necron codex as a whole right now lol. Theyre weird, their units are either worthless scum or HOLY CRAP THATS INSANE lol. To my knowledge, their chariot thingy is the only unit thats used that isnt either useless or OP in some way (most of the OP is in specific situations, so they arent a broken codex)

Anything Nurgle in my CSM army. I don't like the fluff, and I don't like the tanky playstyle it allows for. I prefer my army to perform assault alpha strikes so I MoS normally. I don't win many games.

Heldrakes, Obliterators, Defilers and Forgefiends (and Maulerfiends).

Necron flyers. Look terrible and don't fit my TruCon army at all :(

Am I the only one that's growing on the Centurion and Taurox models? Sure the Taurox looks crap in Scions blue but if you actually look at the Cadian colour scheme on it it looks pretty good, and I think it'd look good in a Firstborn beige colour.

I have to say; Rough Riders. I hate the models, they're bad and they make no sense.
'Oh yeah we have bikes but lol let's have horses instead'
'And let's remove the only special character that makes us good hehehe'

Also Deathstrike missiles because I think they look stupid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Heldrakes, Obliterators, Defilers and Forgefiends (and Maulerfiends).

What's wrong with Defilers? They're a cool, classic model.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Am I the only one that's growing on the Centurion and Taurox models? Sure the Taurox looks crap in Scions blue but if you actually look at the Cadian colour scheme on it it looks pretty good, and I think it'd look good in a Firstborn beige colour.

I have to say; Rough Riders. I hate the models, they're bad and they make no sense.
'Oh yeah we have bikes but lol let's have horses instead'
'And let's remove the only special character that makes us good hehehe'

Also Deathstrike missiles because I think they look stupid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Heldrakes, Obliterators, Defilers and Forgefiends (and Maulerfiends).

What's wrong with Defilers? They're a cool, classic model.

Well in a desert environment a horse can be better than a bike. You don't have to worry about dust and sand clogging up your horses engine.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Am I the only one that's growing on the Centurion and Taurox models? Sure the Taurox looks crap in Scions blue but if you actually look at the Cadian colour scheme on it it looks pretty good, and I think it'd look good in a Firstborn beige colour.

I have to say; Rough Riders. I hate the models, they're bad and they make no sense.
'Oh yeah we have bikes but lol let's have horses instead'
'And let's remove the only special character that makes us good hehehe'

Also Deathstrike missiles because I think they look stupid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Heldrakes, Obliterators, Defilers and Forgefiends (and Maulerfiends).

What's wrong with Defilers? They're a cool, classic model.

Well in a desert environment a horse can be better than a bike. You don't have to worry about dust and sand clogging up your horses engine.

Horses go slower than bikes, and also can't go as far for as long.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Am I the only one that's growing on the Centurion and Taurox models? Sure the Taurox looks crap in Scions blue but if you actually look at the Cadian colour scheme on it it looks pretty good, and I think it'd look good in a Firstborn beige colour.

I have to say; Rough Riders. I hate the models, they're bad and they make no sense.
'Oh yeah we have bikes but lol let's have horses instead'
'And let's remove the only special character that makes us good hehehe'

Also Deathstrike missiles because I think they look stupid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Heldrakes, Obliterators, Defilers and Forgefiends (and Maulerfiends).

What's wrong with Defilers? They're a cool, classic model.

Well in a desert environment a horse can be better than a bike. You don't have to worry about dust and sand clogging up your horses engine.

Horses go slower than bikes, and also can't go as far for as long.

Yet the fact remains, you can't go anywhere on a bike whose engine doesn't work. Case of less haste, more speed.

Plus for all your bikes you also have to transport fuel which requires a heavy truck to also be travelling across this desert.

Horses: just bring some water, high-energy concentrated rations and you're done.

Kroot Shaper. Stupid.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Am I the only one that's growing on the Centurion and Taurox models? Sure the Taurox looks crap in Scions blue but if you actually look at the Cadian colour scheme on it it looks pretty good, and I think it'd look good in a Firstborn beige colour.

I have to say; Rough Riders. I hate the models, they're bad and they make no sense.
'Oh yeah we have bikes but lol let's have horses instead'
'And let's remove the only special character that makes us good hehehe'

Also Deathstrike missiles because I think they look stupid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Heldrakes, Obliterators, Defilers and Forgefiends (and Maulerfiends).

What's wrong with Defilers? They're a cool, classic model.

I'll have to agree on the looks of rough riders not doing it for me. That said. A certain group of bio engineered horses is far more satisfying!

Ogryns, because now we have Bullgryns that can actually have saves for a change! I mean, what does IG/AM face that doesn't have standard-issue AP5 guns?

On a separate but on-topic note, my friend has too compromised of a moral compass to not take Imotekh should we ever play an Apoc game. Dirty bastard.

Orks.

AP 6 baby

Space Marine Bikes and Centurions.

Both mostly for a complete lack of visual appeal to me, but I also don't really like the idea of Space Marines riding bikes. It just seems a bit silly. Maybe because I've never seen it in live action before, or maybe its just because the model looks so underwhelming, but I would rather they be using their drop pods or jump packs to get where they need to be.

From a gameplay perspective though I can see why they would be very useful.

Riptides! Stupid, ugly models.

The excessively and needlessly ugly Ogryn/Bullgryn models.
The Bullgryn armour is jut stupid, clean carapace with a section of tank track.....

Flash Gitz - the official model may look nice, but they are way, waaaay too expensive to use. Plus I'd always go for Killa Kans or Big Gunz; or when I don't have a Big Mek, a Deff Dread in the heavy support slots.