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that Bugbear is awesome, and i look forward to painting one someday...

best of luck, in round 2, and i hope we get to see your products hit retail at some point...

cheers
jah

Thanks Jah! Hopefully you will get your hands on one soon!

I agree that an EB with 100 slots isn't much of an EB for this type of project. Might be better to limit it to 40 or so (you can always add another if that one fills up). Something to keep in mind is the casting time for resin can be a quite significant variable. Be sure to leave yourself plenty of time for delivery (lots of projects shoot themselves in the foot in that respect).

I'd be in for a pair of iron shields, maybe a third if we get to enough individualized parts.

We hope to have Zealot Miniatures doing the casting. They have already produced our Goblin Skilk and the quality is excellent!

I will definitely look at the Early Birds and may be do 40 instead.

Absolutely in for at least a bugbear or two minimum, depending on how closely the wife is checking the bank account.

The 18 pound one will be how tall? I know the more expensive version was going to top out around 65mm. I'm alright with smaller ones more in line with what's readily available, but after having been playing the new Diablo expansion with the Crusader class and their giant shields, I was looking forward to a giant brute lugging around a shield larger than most of his opponents.

You certainly don't need more EB than it takes to fund the project

(as that's their main purpose, to push you over the line so people that don't back unless they know a project will fund are happy joining in)

The Flesh Golem and BB will be roughly the same size, around 50-55mm. They are both big lads to be fair!

As long as there are enough EBs to ensure that I can get one without having to camp my PC at 1am or 4am, it's all good.

 Kaine Larson wrote:
As the stretch goals open you can choose any combination of head, shield and weapon you want!

Perfect! Be sure to post that on the campaign page

 Kaine Larson wrote:
The Flesh Golem and BB will be roughly the same size, around 50-55mm. They are both big lads to be fair!

Even more perfect! That's an ideal size, imo, as he's really stocky, too

Hopefully with things like the postage sorted, more renders and artwork and lower stretch goal we will hit this time round!

I'm sure your next one will be a smash hit; the bugbear and flesh golem are pretty damn awesome.

Sounds like the Bugbear got a size downgrade there, too!

I thought he would be more popular being really big but he got the opposite reaction in most quarters so I reduced him in height by about 10mm.

Yeah, I think he's much more usable at this size, and also more affordable . Will still dwarf anything else in that "category" that I can think of.

10mm shorter will still make him a very big boy indeed. He will be a perfect, absolutely massive, ogre in my D&D/Pathfinder game I'm thinking.

Same, Trodax! Except I'm going to mix him in with some chaos dwarfs (either as the ogre that mans the earthshaker cannon, or just as a filler in large units).

 RiTides wrote:
A few thoughts: If pledging for 2 or 3 of a model, would you vary the heads/shields (not giving extra, just vary)?

See, I think they should be extra and included. It's the standard for this sort of kit. Just look at AoW, RH, even GW. Getting multiple head/arm/weapon options when they're available doesn't usually require buying multiples of the same kit. I'd expect that for retail, so wouldn't expect less from a KS.

With alternative parts included then I could see making full units of Ogres for my KoW force rather than just using them as heroes. Heh, allow me to triple an EB Mega Bundle without dicking about with extra KS accounts and provide the extra arms and heads, and I'm 10% of your funding target by myself.

I think the big EB bundle does actually come with extras, but I don't want or expect the lower pledge levels to, I just want variety . Resin figures do not usually come with extra parts in my experience, although there are exceptions, of course.

Depends. If it's sold as a kit, you're unlikely to have four different SKUs with the same body and slightly different heads. Pieces that are true alternative parts are usually included as options. We're not talking about a bunch of Mierce one-offs with different poses here, we're talking about the same base figure with several head options, etc. The days when random torsos, heads, arms in a blister was standard also came with a huge difference in price to today's stuff.

Even GW's Metal->Finecast Ogre Tyrant comes with two sets of arms, heads, gutplates - allowing quite a decent variation on the kit. And he's £23.50. From GW - the price leader, at full retail price. (IE before discount)
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Ogre-Kingdoms-Tyrant

The figures we're discussing are at KS prices, with potential KS delays and risks, with shipping on top. So yeah, while I'm likely to be getting a larger pledge, I'd be expecting a bit more bang for my buck in terms of equivalence even if I were only ordering 1 or 2.

Good stuff, Kaine. I think you could launch your KS tomorrow and it'll be successful!

Sorry I'm a little bit confused Azazelx. What I was planning to do is make an option immediately available on the SG being hit. What this means is that the Ironshield comes with head A, Sheild A and Weapon A. The SG have unlocked Heads B and C, Shields B & C and weapons B & C. This means that if you have pledged for 3 BB's you can choose any combination of the available options to replace the A options on the model. Does sound like a good or a bad idea or are you saying they should be extra for each Bugbear anyway?

They should definitely not be free, Kaine. Leave your margins. Giving us the option to choose is more than enough!

Mierce is a much better comparison than GW (GW is the exception, not the rule, for supplying extra bits). I've paid 15 pounds apiece for many much smaller Mierce models with no alternate parts.

Stretch goals unlocking Options (not extras) to choose from is awesome, and will encourage folks to pledge more if they want all styles!

You can't please every backer, so if there's a suggestion you can't do, just thank them for it and do what you can. As I said, I think unlocking options is plenty already- don't destroy your margin!

Edit: I will say, I'm thinking particularly of the shield here- it's half the model, no way it can be free!! However, for heads it may be easier to just include, depending, since otherwise you have to sort through them. When extra bits are occassionally included, a (single) spare head is the most common I've seen. Totally your call, though!

Looking forward to this

 Kaine Larson wrote:
Sorry I'm a little bit confused Azazelx. What I was planning to do is make an option immediately available on the SG being hit. What this means is that the Ironshield comes with head A, Sheild A and Weapon A. The SG have unlocked Heads B and C, Shields B & C and weapons B & C. This means that if you have pledged for 3 BB's you can choose any combination of the available options to replace the A options on the model. Does sound like a good or a bad idea or are you saying they should be extra for each Bugbear anyway?

RT and I disagree on this pretty strongly it seems.

I'd want the extras. I'm someone who chooses my final options for things like that when the figures are in hand - dry fitting the options, seeing how they fit together, etc. Unless you're going to have ten heads and arms as options, I don't really see the issue. I don't want to feth your margins, and while I wish you well and am happy to support your startup business, I'm purchasing a product with the reward as the reason. It's not charity. Basically, in order to pledge, I'd want the extras included. Like you get when buying a GW kit for basically the same price or a creature caster KS for way more, or an AoW etc figure that comes with optional parts. I also find ways to use these extra pieces, so it's not like they go into the bin. Having said that, if a few extra weapons and heads will destroy your margin when kickstarting new models direct to the public (ie selling for more than wholesale), then you've probably got bigger issues already.

Here's the GW Ogre Tyrant kit:


Even when it came in metal - and still while in resin - it comes with two head options, two sets of arms and weapons, and two gutplates for £23.50 - 5 quid (RRP) more than your kickstarter prices for the Bugbears. And let's face it - that's £21.15 at most places.
GW are also the price leader and generally the chief gougers in the hobby.

RT - Mierce's models are overpriced in general. Or if you prefer, they're at the top of the price band in this hobby. The larger ones are sometimes okay, while the smaller ones are lovely sculpts but overpriced in comparison. Despite Lane's shenanigans, Mierce is now also somewhat established, and you'll notice their prices were a lot more attractive in KS1 when they were attempting to establish themselves. Now, with KS 5 or 7 or whatever it is, they've got their fans, and now that they're established, and have delivered on quite a few models, they've increased the "RRP" prices of the models, they've increased the amount needed for free store shipping from £50 to £80, they've dropped their store discount from 10% to 5%. Minion is an unproven startup with nothing to show but a nice guy talking to us on the internets and some good looking renders. The risk is much higher from a backer's perspective. Comparing Minion to Mierce now is a poor comparison.

AoW and Raging Heroes also both include the optional parts in their figures when they are available. The main exception being that the RH Lammasu head is (now) sold separately, but that's only because of GW's lawyer shenanigans.


Kaine - I wouldn't expect freebie models from your campaign - you're too small and it's not likely to be that sort of campaign, but damn straight that I'd expect extra optional parts (if they were unlocked) for the models. But then as I said, this is assuming it's not a "Free figures" kind of campaign.

Ultimately it's your choice, so I won't begrudge you what you choose to do. Just the same as I make my own choice in terms of what campaigns I back and for how much.

Fair enough, Azazel. I will say Mierce did well with a worse than neutral reputation starting out, based on the strength of their sculpts. I don't think freebies are needed to get folks to back for this bugbear, but if it's a deal breaker for you, that's of course your call.

I'm saying the opposite because I think it's possible your position is the minority, and that most of us will back whether the parts are options that we get to choose from, or included, either way. I will, at least!

Anything's possible, my friend. But aside from my own wants and preferences, I personally believe that extra parts can be the thing that pushes people over the edge to buy a model, and to buy more. It certainly does for me, and RH had a poll on their website with their customers long before the KS took over and the result was that they decided to include the extras in all of their figures going forward.

Result? I've got multiples of many RH models and many more of AoW models. When other companies step up and do the same with quality models, I'll be doing that with their figures as well. Do do put my money where my mouth is, after all.

Makes sense, although letting folks choose alternate parts is a middle ground idea I hadn't seen before. I like it . But there may be another middle ground possible, with some included (say, heads) and some options (huge shields).

If there are multiple versions of the shield, and they're all similar in size to the tower shield shown, perhaps a choice of one shield along with all of the heads and optional weapon arms (which would be much smaller, I imagine) might be a middle ground. That way people pledging for one get all of the (game) options as well as all the heads. I think including all of the heads is a must-do, though.

As long as the big pledge gets it all for each figure.

I think I will do a compromise. I'll probably give away the heads free but ask people to pay a little extra for the big shields, give away one or two additional weapons free and have a couple as paid addons...just cover their cost a bit. Does that sound ok?

Well, the renders you've been showing for the past 3(?) months feature a shield, so you'd want to include at least a shield as standard with every bugbear without argument. - Unless individuals (RT?) specifically request to not have one, since they'd never use it for anything.

You would get the standard shield free if course but additional ones would have to be purchased.