Interesting Quote on the Bundy Cattle Case

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**Jihadin**

So far from what I'm reading is they're performing ECP on Bundy property. On his property being key location. That's like having you own private security doing the same thing on your place. Yet it seems to be grounds to have a military response, intimidation, and throw in escalation.

If we were to enforce the Court Order giving then we would only impound the cattle and that's it. BLM tries to make arrange to sell or terminate said cattle then we will point them in the direction of the Federal Judge so he can clarify more in the Court Order the disposition of the cattle in concern. If the Court Order specify termination then BLM can go right ahead to start shooting the cattle after we ensure the Court Order does not involve the US Military. If it involves sell then the Court order need to specify military Vet can sign off on the health of cattle Might as well use the Military animal Doc's instead of contracting it out for three times the amount.

Forgot the incident of US Marines terminating feral puppies in Afghanistan?

Mind you the Court Order also has to specify this is to be done on Federal land. If this happen on Bundy private property then we are the "evil ones"

If Bundy and Militia moves in force to hamper operation of BLM then Federal LEO can handle it on Federal property

If it happens on Bundy property then we have another Waco on our hand now involving the US Military. Its bad publicity More likely involving questioning what could be possible a unlawful order.

Federal Hall in New York was one incident OWS on Federal Property
http://gothamist.com/2012/04/17/video_ten_arrested_as_ows_tests_pro.php#.

Now as I mention before We fall under UCMJ We do not fall under Federal, State, or local laws. We abide by them of course but once it turns into a Military Operation then more likely we be zip cuffing them pretty much like we would an Insurgent.

If gunfire ensues then we're more likely wait for the threat to expose themselves for a clear shot since we're a bit use to human shield scenario and not perform gunfire that's NYPD trade mark.

Besides "Foreign and Domestic" is in our Oath. One start labeling domestic groups as threats to US security then deploy the military to handle said groups would pretty much be Illegal Orders
Unless actually engage in the overthrow of the US Government.

If the Tea Party becomes a bigger faction in Congress and they get label as a threat because they want to enact laws with issues they are concern about.
If Lobby groups can be label as a Domestic Threat.
If NRA label as a Domestic Threat
If hardline religous groups get label as Domestic Threats
Militia groups in WI and MI get label as Domestic Threats

See why its a slippery slope

**Ouze**

Jihadin wrote:
So far from what I'm reading is they're performing ECP on Bundy property. On his property being key location. That's like having you own private security doing the same thing on your place. Yet it seems to be grounds to have a military response, intimidation, and throw in escalation.

He can do whatever he lawfully likes on his property. My concerns were only covering the impediments to the roundup on federal land.

Jihadin wrote:
Besides "Foreign and Domestic" is in our Oath. One start labeling domestic groups as threats to US security then deploy the military to handle said groups would pretty much be Illegal Orders
Unless actually engage in the overthrow of the US Government.

I'm not labeling any groups anything. I'm concerned with the specific people at this location who have rifles pointed at law enforcement officers. Their ideology is irrelevant to me, and I could care less what hobbies they have when they're not engaging in the currently discussed activities.

**Frazzled**

daedalus wrote:
Ahtman wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
I feel the same way when you do it to me D-USA

I have never seen him mock your service. A link would be appreciated.

I was once told I wouldn't understand what Cricket was until I knew what crumpet was.

I think it might be something better suited settled between the two of them, and not in a thread unrelated to the topic.

I recommend an indiegogo campaign to get plane tickets so they can throw down in a 40k match in person. TO THE DEATH.

Alternatively a duel at dawn with GW certified whippy sticks, video tapedfor our Dakka amusement. Now back to the topic please?

**reds8n**

http://gawker.com/nevada-ranch-militias-turn-against-each-other-over-dron-1570140614?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_facebook&utm_source=gawker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

The armed anti-government play-warriors who built a military force around a racist redneck rancher in Nevada have split into rival factions and are now at the brink of civil war, calling each other crazies and traitors and spreading rumors that Eric Holder planned a drone strike on them.

For nearly a month, organized groups of militiamen as well as gun-toting "independents" have descended on Bunkerville, Nevada, ostensibly to protect Cliven Bundy, the curmudgeon cattleman who grazed his cattle on federal land, owed feds more than a million in fees, and famously shared his opinions on "Negroes" with America.

The feds gave Bundy his cows back and avoided an armed confrontation, but freemen in search of a hot discharge of their firearm loads remain encamped around his land, occasionally setting up checkpoints to intimidate local drivers in the name of freedom.

In this Waco-wacko Woodstock of woolly-bully mountain men, the irony and the insanity spiked last weekend when leaders of the most prominent militia group, the Oath Keepers, began complaining of armed madmen "in the camp running amok." They eventually pulled back from their positions, claiming they had received intelligence suggesting that the Obama administration's attack drones were incoming.

That "redeployment" pissed off other armed patriots who stayed behind in Nevada, who now call the Oath Keepers and their prominent leader, Stewart Rhodes, cowards and traitors who might actually be working for the U.S. government. "They committed a deliberate act of desertion," Blaine Cooper—a de facto leader of the remaining militiamen—said in his own video, embedded at the top of this post.

In the video below and a post on the Oath Keepers site, Rhodes defended his actions, though he now concedes the drone rumor may have been "psyops" by Uncle Sam:

We got the phone call, a guy from Texas called up and said hey, I've got contacts in DOD who've called up and told me that Eric Holder, the AG, has given approval for a drone strike on the ranch, on the entire area, including the Bundys' own personal home.
While trying to vet that "intel," several Oath Keepers attempted to offer an offsite hotel room to a woman who was staying in the Bundy camp with her two children. "She got angry and said that we weren't trusting God enough, and that's her mission to be there, God wanted her to be there," Rhodes says in his video. "And that's fine. But she started yelling and screaming."

That started a series of conflagrations between different militiamen that apparently frustrated Rhodes. In the video he complained of an "increasingly deteriorating situation" in the camps, due to "a bunch of hotheads" whom he thought weren't stable enough to carry out the armed struggle against the United States government in the Nevada desert. "We could see they were a ticking time bomb and they weren't under sufficient command and control," he said. "We wanted to pull out."

The Oath Keepers' website said even though the drone attack hadn't panned out, it was reasonable to fear that it might:

Considering how bizarre that listing of government sins-against-the-people really is, it's not such a far reach to understand why a threat of a war-on-terror-styled attack in retribution for the Bundy cowboy defeat of the BLM gov-thug soldiers earlier this month is not such a far-fetched idea after all.
bs, said Cooper. "You're lucky that you're not getting shot in the back," he says to the "traitors" who left the camp, "because that's what happens to deserters on the battlefield." [Note: It is, in fact, against U.S. military law to shoot a deserter in the back on a battlefield.]

In the video posted by Cooper, he leads several votes against the Oath Keepers with other militia leaders including New Hampshire 9-12 founder Jerry DeLemus and "Booda Bundy Bear," who identifies himself as a "self-employed tattoo artist" on Facebook. Booda recently posted two pictures of himself—one with the Bundy family, at left, and another patrolling the ranch:

In their video, the three men and more than a dozen comrades vote unanimously to brand the Oath Keepers as traitors and deserters, musing on their motives for leaving. Cooper said there were two possibilities:

There is very good evidence to show that the Oathkeepers came here with an intention in mind and that was not to support the objectives, it was to coopt this entire thing and build membership at the very least...

At the very worst, it was provocateurism deliberately sent in here by the other side to drive a wedge into our cohesion. Which would mean that they work for the other side, and they're REALLY a bunch of melon-fethers.
Opinion on who to back in the militias' war of words seemed divided online. "Those oathkeepers just gave up their intel," one friend of Cooper's wrote on his Facebook wall. "now the Pentagon is going to search for the leak.. not smart..and they sound like they are back pedaling on what they did..they are doing what government does best and makes the militia look like a bunch of unorganized thugs."

But Robert Casillas, a fellow Oath Keeper and former Marine, added to Rhodes' account of the mavericks in the desert: "It's a bunch of crackpots… These kids, they're playing war out there, and they don't know what they're doing."

That sounds like the sanest thing anyone in this Twin Peaks of patriotic tinderboxes is capable of saying, though if you watch the video you'll see Casillas didn't seem completely sane while saying it. And in any case, dude believed a drone strike on Nevada ordered by Eric Holder was plausible, so keep that in mind.

Which is a shame. All these hardened breadfruits seem made for each other—from the tactical cargo pants up to the leaky sieves that hold their soggy thoughts and theories mostly in place.

But the conflict lines have been drawn, and now the anti-government resistance and pro-Bundy defense force seems irreparably broken. Sane armed people with a disagreement might be able to find common ground; crazy unarmed people might, too. But disagreements among crazy armed people have a weird way of not ending in a vocal consensus.

"They're not allowed back on this ranch," Cooper said of Stewart's group, angrily raising his arms. "They're to stay the hell out of here under fear of fist fire."

2-3 weeks and they'll be eating each other.

**Frazzled**

Is it me, or am I the only one thinking Putin has managed to slip in "Definitely Not RUSSIANS" also in ski masks...

**purplefood**

Under fear of fist fire?

Is he 12 or just dim?

**d-usa**

It's sad when you can't tell the truth from The Onion anymore...

**Ahtman**

2-3 weeks and they'll be eating each other.

But they seem like such sane, well balanced people.

**Co'tor Shas**

Well this escalated.

**reds8n**

.. well the cows breath in the chem trails and then there's also fluoride in the water .....

I am quite impressed with these new stealth drones so. So stealthy even the target doesn't know they've been attacked.

"now the Pentagon is going to search for the leak

Yes, I'm sure they're urgently water boarding people right now !

.they are doing what government does best and makes the militia look like a bunch of unorganized thugs."

That's not fair at all.

They don't need no lame-ass pansy Govt. assistance to do that.

....

**dogma**

"They're not allowed back on this ranch," Cooper said of Stewart's group, angrily raising his arms. "They're to stay the hell out of here under fear of fist fire."

Shoryuken!

**daedalus**

d-usa wrote:
It's sad when you can't tell the truth from The Onion anymore...

That's what I was thinking. Reality is off its meds again.

**d-usa**

reds8n wrote:

.they are doing what government does best and makes the militia look like a bunch of unorganized thugs."

That's not fair at all.

They don't need no lame-ass pansy Govt. assistance to do that.

....

Are you saying that they are more incompetent than the incompetent government? Them are fighting words!

**Easy E**

I guess withdrawing and waiting was a good strategy from the Feds after all.

**d-usa**

Ahtman wrote:
2-3 weeks and they'll be eating each other.

But they seem like such sane, well balanced people.

Best case scenario: the cattle dies in the cross fire and the entire problem solves itself.

**whembly**

dogma wrote:

"They're not allowed back on this ranch," Cooper said of Stewart's group, angrily raising his arms. "They're to stay the hell out of here under fear of fist fire."

Shoryuken!

Have an exalt for Dragon Punching Ken!

**LordofHats**

dogma wrote:

"They're not allowed back on this ranch," Cooper said of Stewart's group, angrily raising his arms. "They're to stay the hell out of here under fear of fist fire."

Shoryuken!

Exalted

**Kilkrazy**

As I said about 11 pages back.

Considering the basic mentality of the militias is paranoid suspicion of authority and a significant degree of distance from reality, it is not surprising they have fallen out with each other.

**hotsauceman1**

My teacher once joked that no one would ever need to invade america, They would just wait till we shot ourselves to death over something stupid.
Im starting to think that wasnt a joke

**daedalus**

Well, that does sound like something that would come from a teacher in California.

**Jihadin**

Oath Keeper redeploy after Bundy the racist comment?

**Frazzled**

daedalus wrote:
Well, that does sound like something that would come from a teacher in California.

Well in a California teacher's defense, thats accurate for California.

**Ouze**

The important thing to remember here is whatever whackadoodle things these guys say or do.... But, BLM.

**Ouze**

So, an update on everyone's favorite rancher/patriot:

Bundy Ranch's Armed Defenders Seek Welfare to Sit Around Doing Nothing
Adam Weinstein

The life of an ever-vigilant anti-government armed patriot is hard. And by hard, I mean dull and unproductive. Also, not very profitable. Maybe that's why all those guys hanging out cleaning their guns in Nevada are now begging hard-working Americans to please give them some money.

One enterprising ranch defender needs funds so badly, he's taken to GoFundMe: (note: this GoFundMe seems to have been pulled)

To all American Patriots:

I am the Team Leader that took Charlie Delta, the black marine, out to Nevada along with two other volunteers that all did an outstanding job at the Bundy Ranch. I understand most of you have come to know Charlie Delta through his expressed views on Cliven Bundy and the good we are all doing as patriots at the ranch. I am coming to you tonight humbly asking for your help. We may be the front line soldiers facing down an overbearing govt bureaucracy, but we are first off family men and women that have our own homes and jobs and families left behind to take on this endeavor. Therefore we have spent our fortunes for freedom and love of our fellow man and need your help to continue our efforts to keep all Americans free from tyranny. Please if you can spare even a few dollars for food, fuel and supplies to continue the stand against tyranny and an overbearing governtment [sic] please help. Even the smallext amount will help keep up the pressure to return this land to the people. I thank you all sincerely for your contribution.

Christopher E Ferrell

United we stand! Divided we fall!

Chris isn't alone in opting for unemployment assistance to play soldier out in the desert. Another self-appointed militia bigwig, Blaine Cooper, took up a GoFundMe collection "for gas, and expenses to help in our fight with the bundies all money will be used for food and gas........." (his page has since been taken down but is cached here.)

How's the welfare drive going? gakky. Cooper, who's been something of a celeb in the cause (and is incensed that prison inmates get free food), made just under $1,500 in a month and a half. Ferrell, meanwhile, has netted $170 from five donors... well short of his $100,000 goal. Sheesh. Why don't these losers get jobs?

source

These guys are true 'Murcans, and I think we should all pitch in.

I'm a little concerned, though, that by doing so, they might become accustomed to handouts. Indeed, it might foster a culture of dependancy, and then they'll just be sitting around on a porch.

**Frazzled**

Thats awesome. Good find Ouze.

**LordofHats**

Ouze wrote:

Snip

And it just keeps getting better.