Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So i was looking through my Eldar Dex again and was looking at all the ranged reapons when I saw the Vibro cannon. I never used it before and wondered what unit used it. Come to find that its The Vaul's Wrath Support Battery. And its only 30 points... with a free upgrade to a vibro cannon. 1 Less toughness then the wraithknight. Has 1/3 of the wounds... but you can take a squadron of 3 for 1 HS choice. So i got to thinking. The wraithknight has the same number of wounds as a squadron of these guys but 1 more toughness. Has 12" less range and 1 less shot then the vibro cannons. The biggest deal is the weapon STR and AP and the distortion effect of the heavy Wraithcannon. But the vibro cannon gets stronger and lowers the AP as more shots hit past the first (max increasing str by 2 and decreasing AP by 2). Th eother big ticket is the cost of a wraithknight. you can fit 8 of these guys in for the cost of 1 wraithknight.

So what gives? why does everyone pick the wraithknight over the Vaul's wrath units?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I did end up finding something. The Support battery cannot move and shoot as it is artillery.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
but still 48" ranges with 8 units that have 2 wounds each. 6 T8 wounds vs 16 T7 wounds

The Vibrocannon sounds dirty

The mobility limitations on artillery is probably why. Also, how well would the Vaul's Wrath units do against deep striking cc specialists? The Wraithknight can at least keep moving to avoid being pinned down by a melee unit, or it can go stomping in thanks to its Monstrous Creature abilities.

Interesting thread, though. I have a small Eldar force and don't recall even looking over the Vaul unit in the codex when I was building my army.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The Vibrocannon sounds dirty

Yeah it does. Mmm... yeah it does.

Would be awesome if you played on a map with very little cover, and stuck them behind an aegis, AND were doing kind of a gun line / static eldar force (if that exists lol).

I'm for this because I absolutely hate the wraithknights, so basically I like the support batteries, because I'm butt hurt.

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
The mobility limitations on artillery is probably why. Also, how well would the Vaul's Wrath units do against deep striking cc specialists? The Wraithknight can at least keep moving to avoid being pinned down by a melee unit, or it can go stomping in thanks to its Monstrous Creature abilities.

Interesting thread, though. I have a small Eldar force and don't recall even looking over the Vaul unit in the codex when I was building my army.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The Vibrocannon sounds dirty

Yeah it does. Mmm... yeah it does.

True the wraithknight has more mobility but you can have 2 and 2/3 units for the same cost. So 1 melee unit would tie up 3 guns but you'd still have 5 guns to shoot with else where (unless you grouped them all up and let them get multi assaulted).

The wraithknight is not good because of it's firepower. It is very mediocre for it's pts cost for it's firepower. It does however have Str 10 melee attacks, HoW, 12" jump movement, and distortion of 6's.

What the wraithknight gives is a mobile threat range and decent firepower that can be used to control the board. The wraithknight moves forward, shoots a MC or vehicle, and charges something important the next turn (perhaps said vehicle or a scoring unit).

Vaul's battery are actually pretty good. However their utter lack of mobility leads to them not normally showing up in typical CWE lists which are highly mobile. CWE can actually make a pretty nasty gunline but it is out classed by Tau and AM as the CWE lack durability and bodies to win what is essentially a war of attrition (gunline vs gunline).

The Wraithknight is also a great fear-factor unit. People freak out seeing them on the board, so they attract a good deal of fire.

I think the artillery is pretty cool, and with 48" range there's not many places to hide, but it's difficult to deal with cover, and you really do have to stack them to get a good use out of them. Even in the HS slot, there are better options. I'd take War Walkers over artillery, since they can tote even more firepower and are far more tactically flexible.

But rocking 9 artillery in a full HS company would be pretty cool. Vibro cannon is kinda gakky though, because you only get one shot per battery.

1 Shot per battery but 3 shots per unit. It ends up giving you 9 shots total for only 30 more pojnts then the wraithknight. and 18 T7 wounds.

They dont do very well at all in CC though so don't group em all up. If you split them pretty decently you can cause havoc throughout the enemy army. I am in the process of aquiring 9 of them (I already have 2) and I will create a list that uses 9 and see how it goes at my FLGS.

Which also brings me to if you have any of the old metal ones you don't want I will buy them

I am looking for the D-cannon model (because i like the way it looks) but they will all be vibro cannons.

Dont know much about craft world eldar (besides that I hate them), but another point might be, that the wraithknight will keep its full firepower until he looses the last wound, while a squadrons firepower decreases with every lost model.

Yeah they do lose 1 shot every 2 wounds. But like i said I feel like its easier to kill a T8 6 wound 3+ save then 18 T7 wounds spread across 3 units that also have a 3+ save but also shoot more to start and continue to shoot more shots until they have lost 14 wounds at which point it would be even.

Like I said I am going to test it once i get 9 of them (which might take some time at the rate that i am finding them )

I honestly think the best thing a Wraithknight has going for it is the ability to be a gigantic distraction to your opponent.

But if your play style can make use of support batteries, they will be just as effective in different ways.

 Xerics wrote:
Yeah they do lose 1 shot every 2 wounds. But like i said I feel like its easier to kill a T8 6 wound 3+ save then 18 T7 wounds spread across 3 units that also have a 3+ save but also shoot more to start and continue to shoot more shots until they have lost 14 wounds at which point it would be even.

Like I said I am going to test it once i get 9 of them (which might take some time at the rate that i am finding them )

Thats right pointwise. But if you just have one Slot left, there are just 6 T7 wounds.

MasterOfGaunts wrote:

 Xerics wrote:
Yeah they do lose 1 shot every 2 wounds. But like i said I feel like its easier to kill a T8 6 wound 3+ save then 18 T7 wounds spread across 3 units that also have a 3+ save but also shoot more to start and continue to shoot more shots until they have lost 14 wounds at which point it would be even.

Like I said I am going to test it once i get 9 of them (which might take some time at the rate that i am finding them )

Thats right pointwise. But if you just have one Slot left, there are just 6 T7 wounds.

Each Battery has 2 wounds and they can come in squads of 3. Using 3 heavy support slots nets 9 batteries which is 18 wounds. and the total is only 30 points more then a wraithknight.

 Xerics wrote:
Each Battery has 2 wounds and they can come in squads of 3. Using 3 heavy support slots nets 9 batteries which is 18 wounds. and the total is only 30 points more then a wraithknight.

Each battery has 4 wounds, 2 crew (with one wound each) and 2 on the gun model itself. You can lose one crew and take a single wound on a gun without any loss of firepower.

In my opinion, the Wraithknight's main advantages over Vaul's are it's mobility and close combat ability.

The crew of artillery are subjective to morale tests and can thus break. Most of the time artillery is deployed near your back board edge, thus very likely to die the first time you fail a morale check with it. It's only board presence is shooting and it will hit 2 out of 3 times, resulting in some meh shooting.

The Wraithknight is a S10 T8 MC with Fearless and can move as jump infantry. It's weapons are dedicated AT or AMC roll, but it's board presence is massive in the ability to either lock down lesser foes forcing them to risk being swept to run away or requiring large amounts of fire power or dedicated assault to bring it down. Couple this with fortune/prescience/guide and it gets much worse.

There's also a reason while you'll see competitive tournament lists with 2 Wraithknights and never an artillery team in sight. The some of the parts of the Wraithknight just make it far superior.

With the crew being guardians can you add a warlock in there as well?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nevermind I found it in the codex. Yes they can be put into a squad of Vaul's Wrath Support Battery