Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just trying to figure this out. Do the Swooping Hawks get to use their grenade pack EVERY TIME they deep strike? I can't see how they don't, except that it says that they can use the pack when they "enter play" from deep strike. Does this mean only on the first turn that they deep strike, or any turn? And can they use the pack if they start on the table on turn one and sky leap off, then deep strike on in turn two?

How has this been ruled at tournaments?

In codex : " Any time...."
And this weapon has not "one use only" special rule in its profile.
I think it can be used everytime a Swooping Hawks deep strike without mishap.

Bloody hell. That's great.

Focus fire on them after their arrival, unless there are more pressing threats to engage first. SH are made to be a big nuisance

Don't forget about Interceptor.

Interceptor is wonderful against these. But yes, focus fire immediately. Since they also don't scatter, it is very easy for them to target you.

Also, remember that they need to be in a unit of 6+ to get the large blast grenade pack. 5 or fewer models generate a small blast.

My buddy uses these all the time and the only time it works out for me is if I use Interceptor to neutralize them. They still get the grenade pack since its his turn and he gets to pick whether my interceptor or his grenade pack goes first, but at least I only take it once.

Just sitting here, smiling at the thought of Interceptor on a Ion Accelerator or Heavy Burst Cannon and these things.

I generally use Missile Broadsides with these things. I find they work pretty darn well. I like to save the Riptide shooting for other, more permanent targets.

 Kriswall wrote:

My buddy uses these all the time and the only time it works out for me is if I use Interceptor to neutralize them. They still get the grenade pack since its his turn and he gets to pick whether my interceptor or his grenade pack goes first, but at least I only take it once.

Right result, but wrong reason. Grenade Pack happens immediately upon the Hawks landing. Interceptor doesn't happen until the end of the movement phase. Grenade Packs don't require LoS, so he should be aiming to land where only SMS can shoot him. Of course, some tourneys have been ruling that even SMS need LoS on Interceptor.

So if the unit that has interceptor can't see my Swooping Hawks at the end of my movement phase then it can't shoot at it (via terrain or otherwise), regardless of where the unit actually deep striked to?

Interceptor contains several conditions, one being Line of Sight to the target, before it can be evoked.

Since we are on the subject I have an additional question about the grenade pack. I don't have the dex in hand but it says the hawks must shoot at the same unit they target with the grenade pack 'if possible'. That being said is is acceptable to target a unit with the grenades and land out of LOS of said unit and then fire the las shots at a different unit?
The grenade pack must be resolved in the movement phase bc it is said they throw them from the sky on the way in so in theory you can target a unit that will be out of LOS after landing.
So can I target a unit with grenades, land on the other side of some cover that prevents LOS of that unit making it 'not possible' to target the same unit in the shooting phase, then use my las shots on another unit that is in LOS if where I landed?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Since we are on the subject I have an additional question about the grenade pack. I don't have the dex in hand but it says the hawks must shoot at the same unit they target with the grenade pack 'if possible'. That being said is is acceptable to target a unit with the grenades and land out of LOS of said unit and then fire the las shots at a different unit?
The grenade pack must be resolved in the movement phase bc it is said they throw them from the sky on the way in so in theory you can target a unit that will be out of LOS after landing.
So can I target a unit with grenades, land on the other side of some cover that prevents LOS of that unit making it 'not possible' to target the same unit in the shooting phase, then use my las shots on another unit that is in LOS of where I landed?

You make the attack after you arrive. You also need LoS.

You could however, land with just a few models being able to draw LoS, and then Run them to where they cannot see the unit.

You don't need LoS actually Happy, due to the Skyburst special rule part of the "weapon" (Eldar Codex, page 66) - I'm staying away from the argument that "This shooting attack does not need line of sight." doesn't get around allocating wounds out of LoS.

It's also not Barrage (weirdly, considering it's one of the most "vertical" attacks I can think of) so you presumably always subtract your BS even out of LoS.

As per the rule Skyburst, it does not need line of sight.

Drp. I just read the basics, didn't even glance at the Skyburst special rule.

It only goes to show how often I use them (iow, never). I think I'm the only Eldar player who does not run more than 1 Aspect units (yay Ulthwe Strike Force).

Just read up on it (pg 66 in Eldar Codex) and via the skyburst rule it indeed dose not require LoS and the model makes the attack in the movement phase. The unit is still able to shoot in the shooting phase and "it must target the same unit if possible".
That being said, my question still stands. If I grenade pack a target that is not in LoS and there is another unit that is in LoS, would that make it ok to fire at the second unit during the shooting phase because it is not possible to target the same unit the grenade pack hit?

Indeed. Same thing is true if your weapons are out of range.

Awesome, that's what I was hoping to hear. Thanks for clearing it up for me.

And even after you DS the Hawks can't you use Battle Focus to run into terrain?

I suppose that is how it would be interpreted RAW. I would think they intended that you could only shoot at the same unit, or nothing.