Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It seems extremely unlikely to me that there would be a 40K starter box without some sort of Space Marines in it.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 vadersson wrote:

 spectreoneone wrote:

Is it too much of a stretch to possibly predict that the rumored starter set could possibly be Orks and IG (ahem, sorry, Astra Militarum)? Think about it...Commisar on the poster, that new Armageddon strategy game...GW could make a lot of money with an Armageddon starter set with plastic steel legion...

Mmm, that would be a dream come true. However, I can't imagine a starter set with those two armies, it would take far too many models to be economical. The shear number of Guardsmen and Boys would have to be huge. On the other hand, I would totally buy it.

Surely from GW's perspective it's better to give people lots of models with a low points value in the starter set? If you can make half an army with the starter set, you're cutting into your potential sales harder than you would if the starter set only had a quarter of an army?

I find the idea of a new plastic regiment in the starter set to be very unlikely though. They don't want to start people off with an army they can't complete by buying the plastic model kits they sell. A smarter move might be to have new catachan sculpts in the starter set.

I heared something about a large Armageddon-themed expansion a couple of months ago. Since weekly updates are a thing now, maybe they actually manage to churn out some plastic steel legion..?

The % vs. FOC thing doesn't matter. They polluted one pool with digital releases, the % system probably wouldn't hold true either. And to beat that horse over there, it's not fixing the root cause which is unit point costs.

Like I said, the only expectation to have it a product that's looking to force some sort of sale, preferably of a large amount of the player base, and on an item with the largest margin... printed material it is. If it was any other company, I think we would be excited, but given the past 6~12 months...

I'm scared this could be a new paradigm; 2 year core rule update windows, FAQs for a full year after that, then another full year of wait for the next FAQ to ensure rule clarifications are in line with the next rule waves.

It's inconsistent and uncaring support for their product at best.

I heard it was going to be AM and Eldar for the new starter box from my brother- I don't know his source though.

 greyknight12 wrote:
Any more info on the sideboard thing? I'd love to see that rumor officially debunked, because otherwise I see a 40K version of the poison cup scene from "The Princess Bride" happening prior to every game:
Player 1: but it's so simple...all I have to to do is divine wether or not your the kind of person who would bring a tank sideboard or swarm the table with more models...I am not a fool, so I clearly know that someone who already brought an army of infantry is bringing tanks so I must choose my melta sideboard. But you know I am not a great fool, so you clearly brought more infantry and I must choose my anti-horde sideboard.
Player 2: you've made your decision then?
Player 1: not remotely, because your paint scheme is tzeentch, and tzeentch is the god of change and conspiracy so you don't trust anyone, and I cannot take my anti-horde sideboard
Player 2: truly you have a dizzying intellect
Player 1: wait til you see my dakkadakka posts! And you must have realized that I knew about tzeentch, and so you brought all infantry for yours!
Player 2: ehhh...just pick one. d6 it?
Player 1: you played in a hardboyz tourney, so you enjoy max firepower and are counting on your infantry to score, so I must prepare for tanks. But, you also won a painting contest, so you like small models and I should be prepared for lots of them.
Player 2: I'm not going to tell you dude.
Player 1: but you already basically did! I know exactly which one to take! Oh, look at that magic player over there! (Switches his carrying cases). Ok, let's pick.
Player 1 pulls out his Mixed sideboard : haha didn't see that coming! I am a 40K tactical genius!
Player 2 pulls out a screamer star. Player 1 chokes and dies.

You've won the Internet IMO.

+1

While I doubt that GW would release a starter set without their beloved SMs in it, an ork vs IG started would make sense. They could keep the model count down to like 25 on each side, so it would seem like a decent sized starter set. But because both armies have a lot of cheap troops they would be selling a smaller box set point-wise. So you would pick up a starter or two and wouls still have to buy a lot of models to make a decent sized army. And honestly, IG and Orks are two of the more expensive armies to field, so win win.

Puscifer wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
Any more info on the sideboard thing? I'd love to see that rumor officially debunked, because otherwise I see a 40K version of the poison cup scene from "The Princess Bride" happening prior to every game:
Player 1: but it's so simple...all I have to to do is divine wether or not your the kind of person who would bring a tank sideboard or swarm the table with more models...I am not a fool, so I clearly know that someone who already brought an army of infantry is bringing tanks so I must choose my melta sideboard. But you know I am not a great fool, so you clearly brought more infantry and I must choose my anti-horde sideboard.
Player 2: you've made your decision then?
Player 1: not remotely, because your paint scheme is tzeentch, and tzeentch is the god of change and conspiracy so you don't trust anyone, and I cannot take my anti-horde sideboard
Player 2: truly you have a dizzying intellect
Player 1: wait til you see my dakkadakka posts! And you must have realized that I knew about tzeentch, and so you brought all infantry for yours!
Player 2: ehhh...just pick one. d6 it?
Player 1: you played in a hardboyz tourney, so you enjoy max firepower and are counting on your infantry to score, so I must prepare for tanks. But, you also won a painting contest, so you like small models and I should be prepared for lots of them.
Player 2: I'm not going to tell you dude.
Player 1: but you already basically did! I know exactly which one to take! Oh, look at that magic player over there! (Switches his carrying cases). Ok, let's pick.
Player 1 pulls out his Mixed sideboard : haha didn't see that coming! I am a 40K tactical genius!
Player 2 pulls out a screamer star. Player 1 chokes and dies.

You've won the Internet IMO.

+1

I read the whole thing in Wallace Shawn's voice

So did I

I'm pretty much gonna go with that post being the best thing to hit his forum since the "lady impregnated by squid" thread caused a guy to combine "call me maybe" with the Cthulhu chant. I assume Wallace Shawn is the Secilian? I read it in his and Innigo Montoya's voices.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm pretty much gonna go with that post being the best thing to hit his forum since the "lady impregnated by squid" thread caused a guy to combine "call me maybe" with the Cthulhu chant. I assume Wallace Shawn is the Secilian? I read it in his and Carey Elway's voices.


Sorry, double post due to trying to correct it mid-post to the right person and it fethed up.

So the Dread Pirate Roberts plays Screamerstar? No wonder he was so good.

I wonder what Fezzik plays. It's clear that Montoya plays Blood Angels (he feels no pain when stabbed, prefers melee combat, seems to suffer from the Back Rage for a while when he finds out that the Sicilian died)...

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Blah, I like the idea of percentages. Oh well, GW can keep not getting my money. Then again, it sounds like the vocal majority on here doesn't want percentages, so just based on Dakka they're making the right call. Just wish there was a way to make everyone happy.

If GW was a "proper" hobby company, they could release a small supplement showing how to use percentages to calculate a force organisation. It shouldn't be more than one page of A4, unless they decided to do different percentages for each codex, which I think is how it ought to be done. Then you could use it as an optional rule.

The opposition to percentages is not based on spiteful prejudice. A lot of it is based on well-founded fears that it would not work, due to a number of reasons including GW's incapacity.

Heck, take it a step further and borrow (cough) from Warmachine, listing out some sample point sizes, give then nicknames, and you're good to go. For instance:

500 points - Recon (1-125 pts HQ, at least 125 pts of Troops, no more than 125 pts on any other option.)
1000 points - Skirmish (1-250 pts HQ, at least 250 pts of Troops, no more than 250 pts on any other option.)
1500 points - Standard Battle (1-375 pts HQ, at least 375 pts of Troops, no more than 375 pts on any other option.)
2000 points - Major Battle (1-500 pts HQ, at least 500 pts of Troops, no more than 500 pts on any other option.)
3000 points - Epic Battle

It's a tiny bit of text, toss in a couple of examples, and you're good to go. Promote the Skirmish size in the main book and in batreps, to draw in new players, showcase Standard Battle on a regular basis, and throw in the bigger games once in a while to mix things up.

This ain't rocket science.

If you want to take it a step further, the two starter armiesin the main box each get an "army" section. Do it old school. One text page that talks about building an army in chunks, talking about the different size battles, and get the concept firm in people's minds. One page where the top half is army A's photo, with labels showing what each selection is, and then Army B's on the bottom half, similarly detailed. Have one more page for each where they detail how they expand to 1000 points in text on the top and a pic of the bigger force underneath (One page per army), then a full page picture for each force at 1500, again labeled. (I'd put in more text, but it's GW here, so I'm meeting them halfway.)

From there, fire up the website and put a "Starting an army" section in a similar way, with a walkthrough of the 500/1000/1500 pt armies on display by people who play 'em (Take from the studio if you want or accept submissions, whatever) ... you can even roll out "Expanding to Major Battles" as a whole new article down the road, bringing the starter armies up to where Superheavies start rolling in, and Epic even further down the road.

Along the way, you encourage people to collect the smaller armies and play with them, creating a bigger fanbase that gets turned off when they se ethat the only way to play is to invest upwards of $600, you show how you can expand forces, and you provide neat stories along the way ... humans are storytellers. We eat stories up. Humanize your forces and you create solid fans.

Worried about it taking up space in the rulebook? No big! Make an 8 page-ish booklet as an insert for the box set, since it's intended for new players anyway, and leave it out of the main rulebook. (Personally, I'd leave it in rather than have more photos, but hey.)

There's a reason the "Tale of Four Armies"-style articles are always popular. Heck, I'll write it for them if they want! I work cheap.

Ogryns?<-------- @ Clockwork

 WarOne wrote:
I'm scared this could be a new paradigm; 2 year core rule update windows, FAQs for a full year after that, then another full year of wait for the next FAQ to ensure rule clarifications are in line with the next rule waves.

It's inconsistent and uncaring support for their product at best.

Mind you, that would fit well with the idea that GW's business strategy is to churn 12 year olds over two or three years, get the max money out of them, then churn the next cohort.

 OIIIIIIO wrote:
Ogryns?<-------- @ Clockwork

Fezzik running an Ogryn heavy Guard Army? I could see it.

Heck, I'll do you one better. Took a half hour out of my day, grabbed the Space Marine codex, and put together a 500 point generic force for this kind of article. It would have been bette rto go with more tacticals and less non-tacs at this level, but I'm building a GW-style force here that showcases several different models rather than maximize efficiency, so, you get a little of everything. Let's see, cut-n-paste...

****

Ultramarines at 500.

“Why Ultramarines?” I get that question a lot. The Space Wolves are the bad boys of 40K, the Dark Angels are dark and mysterious, while the White Scars are fast and furious. So why would I play a “dull and boring” force of core Marines? I'll sum it up for you in one word:

Stability.

Like the Romans they're based off of, whose roads withstood a thousand years of use, the Ultramarines are a rock-solid dependable force who can be expected to perform well game after game. I can out-fight shooty armies, out-shoot fighty armies, out-maneuver slow forces and root myself against fast forces. My game can adjust against anyone I play against and I always have a fair chance to win. They might not be as dramatic as the other Marine chapters, but at the end of the day, the Ultramarines will be left standing victorious.

So, for my Recon level army, I started with the options right out of the starter box, adding a little bit more to bring the numbers up. Let's have a look at the list, and then I'll talk more about each choice.

HQ
65 - Librarian

TROOPS
75 - Tactical Squad (5 models) Sergeant with Bolt Pistol and Chainsword, one model with Flamer
80 – Tactical Squad (5 models) One model with Heavy Bolter

ELITES
100 – Dreadnought

FAST ATTACK
85 – Assault Squad (5 models)

HEAVY SUPPORT
95 – Devastator Squad (5 models) with Missile Launcher and Multi-Melta

For my HQ, a basic Librarian gives me a Warlord with some serious offensive punch, his Force Weapon making him a danger to any target as it cuts through armor and drains life force, while his psychic powers allow me to augment my force or turn aside hostile psychic attacks. Since he's a character, he needs a name, and I choose Alexander, after the Library of Alexander. As the head of my force, Alexander will conquer in the name of the Emperor!

For troops, I knew I needed squads to take and hold objectives. Squad A is for taking objectives, kitted out with a flamer to drive foes out of cover and whose sergeant is kitted out for close combat, while Squad B is set for holding objectives, with a Heavy Bolter that can lay down a steady stream of fire to cut down opposing troops. Squad A is fully-effective while moving, but squad B needs to find a place to settle to get the most use out of their heavy weapon since it isn't very accurate when moving.

I knew Squad A would be vulnerable when advancing and I knew I needed some more firepower, so slotting a Dreadnought in as an elite choice was needed. A large model that blocks line of sight, it can advance in front of Squad A and absorb fire, dishing it out in return. It's also a deadly fighter in melee, making it a huge threat that the opposing general has to deal with. It can't hold objectives, but it can drive off the defenders, allowing Squad A to move in behind and take it!

The assault squad gives me more close combat punch, a small group that's extremely mobile, allowing me to move around the edge of the battle and tackle units that fear melee, like a heavy support choice. At only five men, they're not great at charging a large unit, being more of a scalpel than a hammer. In some missions, they can take objectives, but most of the time they're just used as disruptions.

Lastly the Devastator Squad rounds out my heavy firepower, with the multi-melta a threat against any tank and the versitile missile launcher being able to switch roles as needed. I'd have preferred a pair of missiles, but it would have put me at 505 points and you're not allowed to go over! Sometimes you have to make hard choices. On the plus side, if my opponent fields a vehicle, I'm confident that the multi-melta can take it down!

This is a basic, take on all-comers list that handles most scenarios well. You have psychic defenses, anti-armor, great anti-troop, some speed, solid armor, great morale … everything you need to deal with any threat you might encounter! There's plenty to do when we expand to a thousand points for Skirmishes, but for Recon, Alexander will happily lead you to victory. For the Emperor!

So just how accurate are the rumors from the lords of was rumor page? I would really like the rumor about the new starter set being orks vs wolves to not be true. I feel the blood angels dex needs an update far more than the wolves does.

 th3maninblak wrote:
So just how accurate are the rumors from the lords of was rumor page? I would really like the rumor about the new starter set being orks vs wolves to not be true. I feel the blood angels dex needs an update far more than the wolves does.

None of these rumors can be described as accurate. I'm sure most of it is wishlisting.

 th3maninblak wrote:
So just how accurate are the rumors from the lords of was rumor page? I would really like the rumor about the new starter set being orks vs wolves to not be true. I feel the blood angels dex needs an update far more than the wolves does.

No idea on the Lord of War Gaming, they aren't on the tracker yet.

I'd put my neck on the block to say its Orks vs Blood Angels.

Just saying...

Puscifer wrote:
I'd put my neck on the block to say its Orks vs Blood Angels.

Just saying...

I'll get the ax!

Kidding, kidding. I did hear that was an internal memo saying it wasn't Marines and Orks though.

Source on the internal memo?

 th3maninblak wrote:
Source on the internal memo?

Same source I've had for the other rumors I've presented and not just copied and pasted from other sites.

Zion if my sources are the same as your sources, one of us is right.

All the chatter I've heard is saying Orks vs BA, but I've also heard Orks vs IG and Orks.

I got the IG rumour months ago though.

My most credible source is BA and Orks, so that's the one I'm going with.

I would like to see non marines though.

Puscifer wrote:
I got the IG rumour months ago though.

Link?
Here's all I have for you:

Puscifer - Total rumors: (10 TRUE) / (5 FALSE) / (1 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE) - NO RUMORS PENDING

Puscifer wrote:
Zion if my sources are the same as your sources, one of us is right.

All the chatter I've heard is saying Orks vs BA, but I've also heard Orks vs IG and Orks.

I got the IG rumour months ago though.

My most credible source is BA and Orks, so that's the one I'm going with.

I would like to see non marines though.

I don't think we have the same exact sources, but I'm sure the information is trickling from generally the same channels. Since my source is fairly new I'm not betting money on anything of course, just sharing what I heard.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Kidding, kidding. I did hear that was an internal memo saying it wasn't Marines and Orks though.

But does that mean the box doesn't contain either of them? Could it be Marines and Eldar, for example?

And what does 'Marines' mean in this context anyway? Could they have just meant that it isn't vanilla marines, but BA or SW instead?

 Crimson wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Kidding, kidding. I did hear that was an internal memo saying it wasn't Marines and Orks though.

But does that mean the box doesn't contain either of them? Could it be Marines and Eldar, for example?

And what does 'Marines' mean in this context anyway? Could they have just meant that it isn't vanilla marines, but BA or SW instead?

It could contain either or neither. It was mentioned in regards to the BA thing, but that doesn't restrict it to just BA so you're guess is as good as mine. I'm just sharing what I've been told.

Wakshaani wrote:
Heck, I'll do you one better. Took a half hour out of my day, grabbed the Space Marine codex, and put together a 500 point generic force for this kind of article. It would have been bette rto go with more tacticals and less non-tacs at this level, but I'm building a GW-style force here that showcases several different models rather than maximize efficiency, so, you get a little of everything. Let's see, cut-n-paste...

****

Ultramarines at 500.

Spoiler:

“Why Ultramarines?” I get that question a lot. The Space Wolves are the bad boys of 40K, the Dark Angels are dark and mysterious, while the White Scars are fast and furious. So why would I play a “dull and boring” force of core Marines? I'll sum it up for you in one word:

Stability.

Like the Romans they're based off of, whose roads withstood a thousand years of use, the Ultramarines are a rock-solid dependable force who can be expected to perform well game after game. I can out-fight shooty armies, out-shoot fighty armies, out-maneuver slow forces and root myself against fast forces. My game can adjust against anyone I play against and I always have a fair chance to win. They might not be as dramatic as the other Marine chapters, but at the end of the day, the Ultramarines will be left standing victorious.

So, for my Recon level army, I started with the options right out of the starter box, adding a little bit more to bring the numbers up. Let's have a look at the list, and then I'll talk more about each choice.

HQ
65 - Librarian

TROOPS
75 - Tactical Squad (5 models) Sergeant with Bolt Pistol and Chainsword, one model with Flamer
80 – Tactical Squad (5 models) One model with Heavy Bolter

ELITES
100 – Dreadnought

FAST ATTACK
85 – Assault Squad (5 models)

HEAVY SUPPORT
95 – Devastator Squad (5 models) with Missile Launcher and Multi-Melta

For my HQ, a basic Librarian gives me a Warlord with some serious offensive punch, his Force Weapon making him a danger to any target as it cuts through armor and drains life force, while his psychic powers allow me to augment my force or turn aside hostile psychic attacks. Since he's a character, he needs a name, and I choose Alexander, after the Library of Alexander. As the head of my force, Alexander will conquer in the name of the Emperor!

For troops, I knew I needed squads to take and hold objectives. Squad A is for taking objectives, kitted out with a flamer to drive foes out of cover and whose sergeant is kitted out for close combat, while Squad B is set for holding objectives, with a Heavy Bolter that can lay down a steady stream of fire to cut down opposing troops. Squad A is fully-effective while moving, but squad B needs to find a place to settle to get the most use out of their heavy weapon since it isn't very accurate when moving.

I knew Squad A would be vulnerable when advancing and I knew I needed some more firepower, so slotting a Dreadnought in as an elite choice was needed. A large model that blocks line of sight, it can advance in front of Squad A and absorb fire, dishing it out in return. It's also a deadly fighter in melee, making it a huge threat that the opposing general has to deal with. It can't hold objectives, but it can drive off the defenders, allowing Squad A to move in behind and take it!

The assault squad gives me more close combat punch, a small group that's extremely mobile, allowing me to move around the edge of the battle and tackle units that fear melee, like a heavy support choice. At only five men, they're not great at charging a large unit, being more of a scalpel than a hammer. In some missions, they can take objectives, but most of the time they're just used as disruptions.

Lastly the Devastator Squad rounds out my heavy firepower, with the multi-melta a threat against any tank and the versitile missile launcher being able to switch roles as needed. I'd have preferred a pair of missiles, but it would have put me at 505 points and you're not allowed to go over! Sometimes you have to make hard choices. On the plus side, if my opponent fields a vehicle, I'm confident that the multi-melta can take it down!

This is a basic, take on all-comers list that handles most scenarios well. You have psychic defenses, anti-armor, great anti-troop, some speed, solid armor, great morale … everything you need to deal with any threat you might encounter! There's plenty to do when we expand to a thousand points for Skirmishes, but for Recon, Alexander will happily lead you to victory. For the Emperor!

I like this a lot. Good job! I would like to see GW put out this kind of starter army for every codex.

Pretre,

Quick question on your rumor tracker for Puscifer... You have the thorax weapon rumor as false for Hive Tyrants? They can take thorax Weapons, is there a wording I missed as I skimmed it that made that rumor false?