Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

clively wrote:

 Grunt_For_Christ wrote:
So this thread adds at least another 5 pages every day. Is there anything substantive or is this spiral into madness still grounded in the 1 'article' on page one?

On a side note, GW's rules design is just a decades-long circlejerk. More elements of Fantasy in 40k, 3rd ed. rules morphed into 5th (and then got completely screwed up), recurrent themes in codexes from editions are surfacing again... It's all just variations on a theme.

How about some real playtesting, new releases of all codexes more than 2 years old with the new rules, some old fashioned support of the product? That's change I can believe in.

If you read the sidebar that was posted about Ezekiel you might have noticed that they were saying that supposedly this edition was play tested. However, the real question then is: does "play tested" mean the same thing to them as it does most of the rest of the gaming world? Only time will tell.

I pretty sure playtesting in this context was a joke. What I got out of that snippet was "The Dark Angels would never summon demons to win, so of course Ezekiel would only do it for 'Research Purposes and Playtesting'" *wink* *wink*

So prepare your bodies for loyalists summoning greater demons.

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

clively wrote:

 Grunt_For_Christ wrote:
So this thread adds at least another 5 pages every day. Is there anything substantive or is this spiral into madness still grounded in the 1 'article' on page one?

On a side note, GW's rules design is just a decades-long circlejerk. More elements of Fantasy in 40k, 3rd ed. rules morphed into 5th (and then got completely screwed up), recurrent themes in codexes from editions are surfacing again... It's all just variations on a theme.

How about some real playtesting, new releases of all codexes more than 2 years old with the new rules, some old fashioned support of the product? That's change I can believe in.

If you read the sidebar that was posted about Ezekiel you might have noticed that they were saying that supposedly this edition was play tested. However, the real question then is: does "play tested" mean the same thing to them as it does most of the rest of the gaming world? Only time will tell.

I pretty sure playtesting in this context was a joke. What I got out of that snippet was "The Dark Angels would never summon demons to win, so of course Ezekiel would only do it for 'Research Purposes and Playtesting'" *wink* *wink*

So prepare your bodies for loyalists summoning greater demons.

Wow. Just... wow.

Well if loyalists are summoning them, wouldnt they be Loyalist Daemons?

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

clively wrote:

 Grunt_For_Christ wrote:
So this thread adds at least another 5 pages every day. Is there anything substantive or is this spiral into madness still grounded in the 1 'article' on page one?

On a side note, GW's rules design is just a decades-long circlejerk. More elements of Fantasy in 40k, 3rd ed. rules morphed into 5th (and then got completely screwed up), recurrent themes in codexes from editions are surfacing again... It's all just variations on a theme.

How about some real playtesting, new releases of all codexes more than 2 years old with the new rules, some old fashioned support of the product? That's change I can believe in.

If you read the sidebar that was posted about Ezekiel you might have noticed that they were saying that supposedly this edition was play tested. However, the real question then is: does "play tested" mean the same thing to them as it does most of the rest of the gaming world? Only time will tell.

I pretty sure playtesting in this context was a joke. What I got out of that snippet was "The Dark Angels would never summon demons to win, so of course Ezekiel would only do it for 'Research Purposes and Playtesting'" *wink* *wink*

So prepare your bodies for loyalists summoning greater demons.

My soul is ready.

Ulcis wrote:
Given the what the new card-based objective system sounds like at the moment, it wouldn't be hard to make any unit a scoring unit & ensure Unbound can win without relying on tabling.

Card 1: Troops choice holds an objective. 1 VP.
Card 2: Destroy any enemy FA choice. 1 VP.
Card 3: Use a HS unit to destroy an enemy HS unit. 1 VP.
etc.

If you can discard duff choices, shouldn't be too hard to let an Unbound army gather VPs when there are 36 objectives to choose from.

Preemptive disclaimer: not saying the above is how it will work, just how it could.

From the wording in the WD I think you draw a card then draw another when you complete the objective in your hand. Just more randomness in the game is all but at least I won't have to roll more darn dice heh

HEY! Where did everyone go that was positively adamant that that this was not going to be a 7th edition? That this was merely going to be an update with a downloadable FAQ and free updates for digital customers?

I had a gathering at my house (40k players one and all), not one of us is hopeful that we will ever play the game again. It's a shame because that was how all of us met in the first place.

Such a rich background and genre combined with a dynamic gaming concept, all gone to hell.

 Accolade wrote:

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

clively wrote:

 Grunt_For_Christ wrote:
So this thread adds at least another 5 pages every day. Is there anything substantive or is this spiral into madness still grounded in the 1 'article' on page one?

On a side note, GW's rules design is just a decades-long circlejerk. More elements of Fantasy in 40k, 3rd ed. rules morphed into 5th (and then got completely screwed up), recurrent themes in codexes from editions are surfacing again... It's all just variations on a theme.

How about some real playtesting, new releases of all codexes more than 2 years old with the new rules, some old fashioned support of the product? That's change I can believe in.

If you read the sidebar that was posted about Ezekiel you might have noticed that they were saying that supposedly this edition was play tested. However, the real question then is: does "play tested" mean the same thing to them as it does most of the rest of the gaming world? Only time will tell.

I pretty sure playtesting in this context was a joke. What I got out of that snippet was "The Dark Angels would never summon demons to win, so of course Ezekiel would only do it for 'Research Purposes and Playtesting'" *wink* *wink*

So prepare your bodies for loyalists summoning greater demons.

My soul is ready.

*readies Incinerator*

Honestly, the more I think about Unbound lists, the more apparent it is to me this is a way to boost sales. I know personally, when it comes time for me to buy something new, or I get an itch to spend money, I ask myself "Self, do you really need a 4th unit of that type? You can only ever play with three in a standard FOC." At which point I realize that I probably don't need a fourth A-barge for my necrons or squad of deathmarks or something else.

Now with unbound lists, I can theoretically buy more stuff I didn't need before because I was limited. Now there is no pesky FOC to hold us back. I can finally not feel guilty taking a monolith that I modeled to light up with LEDs because of my compulsory three A-barges that the monolith would prevent.

GW is only helping people with good impulse control to relax their wallets and spend that hard-earned money on models they didn't need but can now suddenly use.

 easysauce wrote:
why do people think battle forged and unbound are meant to play against each other...

they are not, and wont, its like normal 40k vs apoc, it will never happen unless you and your opponent want it to happen.

You are going to eat these words so hard. I'll be here to make sure of it.

 Idolator wrote:
HEY! Where did everyone go that was positively adamant that that this was not going to be a 7th edition? That this was merely going to be an update with a downloadable FAQ and free updates for digital customers?

I had a gathering at my house (40k players one and all), not one of us is hopeful that we will ever play the game again. It's a shame because that was how all of us met in the first place.

Such a rich background and genre combined with a dynamic gaming concept, all gone to hell.

Why don't you just play the edition that you prefer?

Seems like in a group of friends you could just stick with the ruleset that brought you together.

 Alex C wrote:

 Idolator wrote:
HEY! Where did everyone go that was positively adamant that that this was not going to be a 7th edition? That this was merely going to be an update with a downloadable FAQ and free updates for digital customers?

I had a gathering at my house (40k players one and all), not one of us is hopeful that we will ever play the game again. It's a shame because that was how all of us met in the first place.

Such a rich background and genre combined with a dynamic gaming concept, all gone to hell.

Why don't you just play the edition that you prefer?

Seems like in a group of friends you could just stick with the ruleset that brought you together.

Exactly...

 easysauce wrote:
why do people think battle forged and unbound are meant to play against each other...

they are not, and wont, its like normal 40k vs apoc, it will never happen unless you and your opponent want it to happen.

to the guy claiming no tournament lets you win via tabling:

WTF.... everysingle tournament I have seen lets you do this.. every.
single.
one.

If they are not meant to be played against one another, then why is there a bonus for taking battle forged? So both players playing battle forged armies can have a bonus against each other? That makes zero sense.

 Alex C wrote:

 Idolator wrote:
HEY! Where did everyone go that was positively adamant that that this was not going to be a 7th edition? That this was merely going to be an update with a downloadable FAQ and free updates for digital customers?

I had a gathering at my house (40k players one and all), not one of us is hopeful that we will ever play the game again. It's a shame because that was how all of us met in the first place.

Such a rich background and genre combined with a dynamic gaming concept, all gone to hell.

Why don't you just play the edition that you prefer?

Seems like in a group of friends you could just stick with the ruleset that brought you together.

That works for a while, but when new codicies and units come out you either have to retrofit them to work with the older edition you are playing, make up entirely new rules, or ignore the new stuff all together. At a certain point that becomes work and the "game" you are playing starts to look less like a leisure activity and more like a chore.

Why don't you just play the edition that you prefer?

Seems like in a group of friends you could just stick with the ruleset that brought you together.

You sir deserve and EXALT! My group will more then likely stay at 6th edition, our codecs match it and we have all we need to continue in a not so awful edition when compared to the snippets we've seen from 7th....

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Alex C wrote:

 Idolator wrote:
HEY! Where did everyone go that was positively adamant that that this was not going to be a 7th edition? That this was merely going to be an update with a downloadable FAQ and free updates for digital customers?

I had a gathering at my house (40k players one and all), not one of us is hopeful that we will ever play the game again. It's a shame because that was how all of us met in the first place.

Such a rich background and genre combined with a dynamic gaming concept, all gone to hell.

Why don't you just play the edition that you prefer?

Seems like in a group of friends you could just stick with the ruleset that brought you together.

That works for a while, but when new codicies and units come out you either have to retrofit them to work with the older edition you are playing, make up entirely new rules, or ignore the new stuff all together. At a certain point that becomes work and the "game" you are playing starts to look less like a leisure activity and more like a chore.

I'm going to have to agree with this guy.

Let's summon a Demon with Eldrad, that's even more of a touchy subject.

 Idolator wrote:
HEY! Where did everyone go that was positively adamant that that this was not going to be a 7th edition? That this was merely going to be an update with a downloadable FAQ and free updates for digital customers?

I had a gathering at my house (40k players one and all), not one of us is hopeful that we will ever play the game again. It's a shame because that was how all of us met in the first place.

Such a rich background and genre combined with a dynamic gaming concept, all gone to hell.

I'm sure there are other games you'll find, might I offer a suggestion:



Seriously though. You've had a discussion over a few scanned WD pages without seeing hide nor hair of actual implementation. It's one thing when you have full or partial rules leaks, but we don't even have that. We have a few designer notes with no real foundation or context to it.

 Accolade wrote:
My soul is ready.

How do you still have one with how much 40k costs these days?

itsNot2ndEd wrote:
Am i really the only one able to read into that white dwarf section was saying, and see that they were clearly just having fun?

They weren't implying that DA had access to Malefic.

They simply wanted to try out Malefic and so he used the models he was currently playing, a DA dude.

Rocket Science ?

Now then, the reason I have doubts to your claims being so is.... why would Malific be claimed to "change the future of war altogether - it enables psykers to summon he fell denizens of the Warp to do their bidding on the battlefield! Beware, however, for if you are not Daemonspawn yourself, the cost may be high..." Now then I ask, what would the point of this statement be if the only factions allowed to use it were CSM and Chaos Daemons? How would this "change the future of war altogether" especially since it it were just CSM and Chaos Daemons, it's just codices of chaos before 4th edition came. Why overstate a measly two codices within a game of over a dozen? Along with that, why go on about how it enables psykers to summon daemons if the only ones that would be capable of it would be the heralds, greater daemons, and DP of all CD along with one sorcerer? That's not really that many psykers really and the only ones that would suffer negative repercussions of the spell "the cost may be high..." is... the chaos sorcerer and Ahriman. Beware the single army that must suffer additional negative repercussions ooooo!

The only realy answer is that it's not just them. IG and the Inquisition maybe? Yet that still isn't that much. That's why I have a feeling it's not that simple. The only armies that have psykers are SM armies, CSM, IG, the Inquisition, Eldar, and CD. Tau, DE, Necrons, and SoB all lack them whilst Tyranids are not permitted to use the spells at all.

I'm not saying it's definitive... it's really just pulling ideas out of... places unmentioned and theorycrafting but it is very odd nonetheless.

 Brother Lem wrote:

Why don't you just play the edition that you prefer?

Seems like in a group of friends you could just stick with the ruleset that brought you together.

You sir deserve and EXALT! My group will more then likely stay at 6th edition, our codecs match it and we have all we need to continue in a not so awful edition when compared to the snippets we've seen from 7th....

Cheers

I'm likely sticking with 6th. Some of the concepts from the 7th rumors sound interesting, but not $100 interesting...

 streamdragon wrote:
Seriously though. You've had a discussion over a few scanned WD pages without seeing hide nor hair of actual implementation. It's one thing when you have full or partial rules leaks, but we don't even have that. We have a few designer notes with no real foundation or context to it.

This is where I stand on this too. Without the full spread of data I am loathe to draw conclusions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 StarTrotter wrote:
Now then, the reason I have doubts to your claims being so is.... why would Malific be claimed to "change the future of war altogether - it enables psykers to summon he fell denizens of the Warp to do their bidding on the battlefield! Beware, however, for if you are not Daemonspawn yourself, the cost may be high..." Now then I ask, what would the point of this statement be if the only factions allowed to use it were CSM and Chaos Daemons?

Inquisition perhaps? Tools so you can play a Renegade chapter? Hell they could give the options to everyone intending it to be used one way only for the player base to run off and do the exact opposite (as we tend to do).

 StarTrotter wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
I just thought.

In 2nd ed couldn't you take practically anything from your codex within the agreed points and percentage limits?

Pretty much what we're getting now.

I call dibs in turning this into 2nd ed Redux.

I was almost tempted to say something like that. The circle is being made! The cycle has begun!

It's a good thing within reason. I loved 2nd ed.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
Seriously though. You've had a discussion over a few scanned WD pages without seeing hide nor hair of actual implementation. It's one thing when you have full or partial rules leaks, but we don't even have that. We have a few designer notes with no real foundation or context to it.

This is where I stand on this too. Without the full spread of data I am loathe to draw conclusions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 StarTrotter wrote:
Now then, the reason I have doubts to your claims being so is.... why would Malific be claimed to "change the future of war altogether - it enables psykers to summon he fell denizens of the Warp to do their bidding on the battlefield! Beware, however, for if you are not Daemonspawn yourself, the cost may be high..." Now then I ask, what would the point of this statement be if the only factions allowed to use it were CSM and Chaos Daemons?

Inquisition perhaps? Tools so you can play a Renegade chapter? Hell they could give the options to everyone intending it to be used one way only for the player base to run off and do the exact opposite (as we tend to do).

Actually edited the Inquisition in. As per Renegade chapters. Nonsense! When you become Chaos you are required to become weaker and give up your grav guns, thunder hammers, land raider variants, and more at the door! It's the first tep to becoming a renegade

I'm leaning on them probably just handing it to almost all psykers bar Eldar. Plus I'd be sad if the only faction that had to suffer drawbacks to summoning to be CSM and that armies could just say yo I got psykers time to wreck yo' army.

 StarTrotter wrote:
Actually edited the Inquisition in. As per Renegade chapters. Nonsense! When you become Chaos you are required to become weaker and give up your grav guns, thunder hammers, land raider variants, and more at the door! It's the first tep to becoming a renegade

Tell that to the guy who made the WD Daily a few years ago with the Skyrar's Dark Wolves who used the Space Wolves codex.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
Actually edited the Inquisition in. As per Renegade chapters. Nonsense! When you become Chaos you are required to become weaker and give up your grav guns, thunder hammers, land raider variants, and more at the door! It's the first tep to becoming a renegade

Tell that to the guy who made the WD Daily a few years ago with the Skyrar's Dark Wolves who used the Space Wolves codex.

Weeeeell at least he picked a rather Khornate army

 StarTrotter wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
Actually edited the Inquisition in. As per Renegade chapters. Nonsense! When you become Chaos you are required to become weaker and give up your grav guns, thunder hammers, land raider variants, and more at the door! It's the first tep to becoming a renegade

Tell that to the guy who made the WD Daily a few years ago with the Skyrar's Dark Wolves who used the Space Wolves codex.

Weeeeell at least he picked a rather Khornate army

And the people who do Thousand Sons (typically the Pre-Heresy Variant) using the Grey Knights book?

My main armies are Orks and Khorne Daemons, and I have a bunch of Orks riding bloodcrushers etc. The idea of allowing the former to summon the latter sounds hilarious

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
Actually edited the Inquisition in. As per Renegade chapters. Nonsense! When you become Chaos you are required to become weaker and give up your grav guns, thunder hammers, land raider variants, and more at the door! It's the first tep to becoming a renegade

Tell that to the guy who made the WD Daily a few years ago with the Skyrar's Dark Wolves who used the Space Wolves codex.

Weeeeell at least he picked a rather Khornate army

And the people who do Thousand Sons (typically the Pre-Heresy Variant) using the Grey Knights book?

I-I've never t-thought of d-doing that u-until I have enough money and FW releases them in a r-rulebook... n-nope

Back when I started playing I had to wait for the first army list to be written. You could take anything you wanted and they gave you rules for making up your own vehicles, characters and robots. Rogue Trader was broken, and you simply had to house rule stuff. I still have fun with it now.

 Dakkamite wrote:
My main armies are Orks and Khorne Daemons, and I have a bunch of Orks riding bloodcrushers etc. The idea of allowing the former to summon the latter sounds hilarious

You next need Bloodletters riding either orks or squigs