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I hate the Imperial Guard of Astra militarum.

They are dull. They are far too good in the game, BS2 should be the standard for them, not BS3. They act too much like an elite force and don't represent the dirty infantry they should be. The commands rules they get belong to Tyranids and the Hive mind, there is no reason Guard should have commands as a special rule.

 Leech wrote:
I hate the Imperial Guard of Astra militarum.

They are dull. They are far too good in the game, BS2 should be the standard for them, not BS3. They act too much like an elite force and don't represent the dirty infantry they should be. The commands rules they get belong to Tyranids and the Hive mind, there is no reason Guard should have commands as a special rule.

To be fair, that elite races like Eldar and Space Marines have been 'juiced down' while less elite ones like Orks and Guardsmen have been 'juiced up' is for a very simple reason.

Money.

If ten Tactical Space Marines had been enough for a small battle, and you would need far more than just 2.8 times as many Guardsmen, then nobody would play Guardsmen. They would just take the cheap option and go Space Marines. It's already the most popular army.

Try using unbound to shift stuff around, it's great fun to use Nobz as Boyz and CMs or Captains as Tactical Marines and things start to make more sense then.

Autarchs instead of Aspect Warriors. It's perfect- you can adjust them to any Aspect!

 Leech wrote:
I hate the Imperial Guard of Astra militarum.

They are dull. They are far too good in the game, BS2 should be the standard for them, not BS3. They act too much like an elite force and don't represent the dirty infantry they should be. The commands rules they get belong to Tyranids and the Hive mind, there is no reason Guard should have commands as a special rule.

Do you uh... are you aware of what the Imperial Guard even is?

Why would trained soldiers be BS2, when the RULEBOOK states that a stat of 3 is the standard rating for "trained" warriors?

Why does it not make sense for trained soldiers who rely on a chain of command to not have something like orders?

Don't blame the Guard for Tyranids being crap on the tabletop.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Leech wrote:
I hate the Imperial Guard of Astra militarum.

They are dull. They are far too good in the game, BS2 should be the standard for them, not BS3. They act too much like an elite force and don't represent the dirty infantry they should be. The commands rules they get belong to Tyranids and the Hive mind, there is no reason Guard should have commands as a special rule.

Do you uh... are you aware of what the Imperial Guard even is?

Why would trained soldiers be BS2, when the RULEBOOK states that a stat of 3 is the standard rating for "trained" warriors?

Why does it not make sense for trained soldiers who rely on a chain of command to not have something like orders?

Sounds like penis envy to me. lol.

While this exact case of WS/BS is indeed as you say, I insist on the points I made above.

Well, here again with that good old debate .

I agree with you about the "elite" armies, in that they're definitely toned down on the tabletop.

There's nothing elite about the Guard, though. A single infantry squad will accomplish absolutely nothing, meanwhile a single horror squad will wipe out the majority of full-strength,single wound, 4+ save or worse squads in a single turn of shooting with average rolls.

Daemons are an example of what an "elite" horde army looks like. The Guard are just straight horde.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I agree with you about the "elite" armies, in that they're definitely toned down on the tabletop.

There's nothing elite about the Guard, though. A single infantry squad will accomplish absolutely nothing, meanwhile a single horror squad will wipe out the majority of full-strength,single wound, 4+ save or worse squads in a single turn of shooting with average rolls.

Daemons are an example of what an "elite" horde army looks like. The Guard are just straight horde.

Yeah, well, whether it is the weaklings that are buffed and the stronglings nerfed, or just one of those two does not really matter as the end results are the same.

The end result being that they're a powerful but not overpowered army with strengths and weaknesses on the table?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
The end result being that they're a powerful but not overpowered army with strengths and weaknesses on the table?

No, that the power balance on a per model basis does not equal what it would have been in the fluff.

I see. I think you're right that that's the case for pretty much every army in the game.

Mind you, I am actually okay with the current stat-basis. 40K feels very 'arcade' and really abstracted currently which is okay. I can sacrifice immersion in the name of carnage. If I want immersion I can just go to my DoWII mod!

Which mod?

The one in her signature. Which basically adjust the stats of units so that they are more related to her interpretation of the fluff, while also adjusting cost etc to keep game balance somehow.

And the mod is bugged as feth atm anyway, so don't try.

Yeah, the mod needs playtesting still but I am convinced it will work.

There are two things I cannot stand...

Intolerance and the Dutch.

Hate...no one really. Even the Tau fit, IMHO (as a kind of counterpoint to the grimdark...but only at first glance. Really, they're all violent, double-crossing, pheromone mind-controlled communists).

But, if had to pick... the only faction I don't like are...

...Marines....

There's too many and they take away from all the much, much more interesting races and factions.

 Psienesis wrote:
There are two things I cannot stand...

Intolerance and the Dutch.

Yeah, look at that flat country of theirs.

Disgusting.

 Leech wrote:
I hate the Imperial Guard of Astra militarum.

They are dull. They are far too good in the game, BS2 should be the standard for them, not BS3. They act too much like an elite force and don't represent the dirty infantry they should be. The commands rules they get belong to Tyranids and the Hive mind, there is no reason Guard should have commands as a special rule.

Huh? Why should they be BS2? BS2 is for Orks that are more concerned with making noise than actually hitting something. They've been BS3 since Rogue Trader in 1987, before the Tyranids ever existed. The Imperial Guard comprises a huge vast array of fighting forces, assuming they should all just be human waves of conscripts is to willingly ignore half their background.

As for Orders, what makes Orders such a Tyranid thing and not an Imperial Guard thing?

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Leech wrote:
I hate the Imperial Guard of Astra militarum.

They are dull. They are far too good in the game, BS2 should be the standard for them, not BS3. They act too much like an elite force and don't represent the dirty infantry they should be. The commands rules they get belong to Tyranids and the Hive mind, there is no reason Guard should have commands as a special rule.

Huh? Why should they be BS2? BS2 is for Orks that are more concerned with making noise than actually hitting something. They've been BS3 since Rogue Trader in 1987, before the Tyranids ever existed. The Imperial Guard comprises a huge vast array of fighting forces, assuming they should all just be human waves of conscripts is to willingly ignore half their background.

As for Orders, what makes Orders such a Tyranid thing and not an Imperial Guard thing?

Well there were Rogue Trader era tyranids buuut...







They looked fething stupid.

Were they in the original RT book? I thought they came later, a couple years before 2nd. I could be wrong about that though.

Though they weren't alone in looking stupid back then

 Vaktathi wrote:
Were they in the original RT book? I thought they came later, a couple years before 2nd. I could be wrong about that though.

1e's a bit before my time (I started with the slightly less silly looking 2e Tyranids) so I'm not sure on that either.

I thought they started out as Genestealer cults in Rouge trader then became Tyranids in 2e?

 Hive Fleet Cerberus wrote:
I thought they started out as Genestealer cults in Rouge trader then became Tyranids in 2e?

No, Genestealers and Tyranids were separate until the 2e codex.

Before then you had to take an army of at least 50% Zoats (erased from the background like Squats, but far fewer people mind because they were admittedly out of place) if you wanted to field a Tyranid army and they only had a handful of units. Though it's worth noting that back then, pretty much every army only had a handful of units.

I read the new Eldar books by Gav Thorpe...made me acquire a whole new definition of hate of Eldar hubris...especially Alaitoc.

 Kain wrote:

 Hive Fleet Cerberus wrote:
I thought they started out as Genestealer cults in Rouge trader then became Tyranids in 2e?

No, Genestealers and Tyranids were separate until the 2e codex.

Before then you had to take an army of at least 50% Zoats (erased from the background like Squats, but far fewer people mind because they were admittedly out of place) if you wanted to field a Tyranid army and they only had a handful of units. Though it's worth noting that back then, pretty much every army only had a handful of units.

Its a shame, I see some potential in the Zoats models.

Back then, every model kinda looked like it was squatting down, ready to take a gak. =)

 Fos Kenos wrote:
Back then, every model kinda looked like it was squatting down, ready to take a gak. =)

It was the eighties, everyone had constipation.

Also for one of the specific factions I hate the most- the Death Korps of Krieg. They're annoyingly dull and have no character, and thus are as interesting as a pile of dirt. The bloody Necrons have more personality than the Kriegers, who are little more than emotionally dead biological robots who are brainwashed to even be more emotionally dead. You can't have a character without any real internal struggle- you just get a flat piece of cardboard that a child could write.

I hate the Dark Eldar.
Their philosophy of torture and abuse really dosent sit well with me at all.
I'd wipe them out in a second if I could.

 Ratius wrote:
I hate the Dark Eldar.
Their philosophy of torture and abuse really dosent sit well with me at all.
I'd wipe them out in a second if I could.

me too . I never like the dark eldar