Vindicator

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**DaKKaLAnce**

So I noticed that the Vindicator has 13 AV on front, but it makes me wonder.... If you were to add the dozer blade, wouldn't you think that would add an extra AV value? Its pretty thick and not required for the base front armor value of 13.

So lore wise, wouldn't it have more protection than your average predator tank?

**Azreal13**

Fluff =\= rules.

Simple as.

**Sir Arun**

Yes, but then the upgrade would have to cost 25 points, IMO.

**Gashrog**

That's how all dozer blades worked in 2nd edition, if you hit from the front you had a 50/50 chance of hitting the blade which increased the armour value.

**ZultanQ**

Funny enough, the fluff for Vindicators states that the reason they have high front armor is because of the siege shield. But you can take Vindicators without siege shields. In that case, whence comes front AV13?

And at their current points cost I think they should have side armor 12 but that's another conversation I guess.

**Sir Arun**

ZultanQ wrote:
Funny enough, the fluff for Vindicators states that the reason they have high front armor is because of the siege shield. But you can take Vindicators without siege shields. In that case, whence comes front AV13?

And at their current points cost I think they should have side armor 12 but that's another conversation I guess.

so how do Predators get their AV 13 then?

**GoliothOnline**

Id like to think GW just doesn't know any better than to use Lore Logic.

Lets face it. The tank section of the Astarties and Heretics are the exact same. Both cross faction and cross utility. Rhinos are the base chassis for Predators and Vindicators. Why the hell don't Rhinos have 13 front Armor and 12 side?....

Pretty bad codecies and writing from my experience. I don't see Devilfish and Hammerheads suffering from this as badly. Losing 1 AV on their front isnt as big as losing 2 and having garbage side and rear armor.

**ZultanQ**

Sir Arun wrote:
ZultanQ wrote:
Funny enough, the fluff for Vindicators states that the reason they have high front armor is because of the siege shield. But you can take Vindicators without siege shields. In that case, whence comes front AV13?

And at their current points cost I think they should have side armor 12 but that's another conversation I guess.

so how do Predators get their AV 13 then?

In the CSM codex is says they sacrifice their transport capacity for beefed up front armor and ammo, so I suppose they have a bunch of extra layers of protection inside the front part or something.

**AllSeeingSkink**

GoliothOnline wrote:
Lets face it. The tank section of the Astarties and Heretics are the exact same. Both cross faction and cross utility. Rhinos are the base chassis for Predators and Vindicators. Why the hell don't Rhinos have 13 front Armor and 12 side?....

They're based off the same chassis but I thought there was a lot more underlying armour on the Preds and Vinds. Since they don't have the transport capacity, they use that space to thicken the armour in addition to carrying extra weapons without increasing the size of the vehicle.

.I guess it's beneficial for an elite fighting force that makes attacks from space to have vehicles that are the same external hull design for the sake of transportation, you can design a carrier for a Rhino that doubles as a carrier for Preds, Vinds, Whirlwinds... if you added the extra armour externally instead of internally, you couldn't do that.

**DaKKaLAnce**

Well I feel that the Siege shield should be an armor upgrade now.

You would think a vehicle that is required to get up close and personal would have decent armor all around.

**troa**

Mixing fluff and rules is not going to end well, don't overthink it.

**Brother SRM**

I think that Vindicators should also have higher side armor since the model comes with these huge slabs of armor for the sides, but welp, they're AV11.

**Scipio Africanus**

troa wrote:
Mixing fluff and rules is not going to end well, don't overthink it.

I want 100 marines to fight 10,000,000 tyranids and win.

**Bookwrack**

"Blast! We only brought 9,999,999 bolter rounds!"

**Scipio Africanus**

Bookwrack wrote:
"Blast! We only brought 9,999,999 bolter rounds!"

The one remaining nod will then proceed to kill everyone.

Why?

Obviously it's death leaper

**Solis Luna Astrum**

They're both flat and made of paper, why does Park Place cost more than Baltic Ave.?

**Purifier**

Personally, I think the vindicator should come with the siege shield as per standard and have the dozer blade price rolled into the price. It just looks so much better with the shield, and like someone said, the front armour is - lorewise - from the shield.

**welshhoppo**

I miss the rules for the old daemonic armour. 14 AV Vindicators seem much more fluffy.

**Sir Arun**

GoliothOnline wrote:
Id like to think GW just doesn't know any better than to use Lore Logic.

Lets face it. The tank section of the Astarties and Heretics are the exact same. Both cross faction and cross utility. Rhinos are the base chassis for Predators and Vindicators. Why the hell don't Rhinos have 13 front Armor and 12 side?....

Because Predators and Vindicators also only have 11 side armor, arguably making Space Marine and CSM tanks the most fragile in the entire meta compared to pretty much any other army out there.