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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/04 04:39:43
Subject: Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Dakka Veteran
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Hey mates. After collecting enough Bretonnian's to be able to play games with them and winning a number of games, I decided to shelve them for now, as I have n idea at this point if GW is ever going to or when GW will ever redo them, so I decided to focus my attention elsewhere at this time, and I have narrowed it down to possibly one of the 3x Elf Armies. Now, only thing me and the people at my store agree is that thee really isn't a lot separating them from each other, with the exception of a number of different special units and various special rules, but each army has something that intrigues me on what I like about them. WE grab my attention as they seem like a fun army and to be frank, I am a huge fan of the new Wild Riders models and overall the WE army seems to have gotten a lot better. HE always have caught my eye due to there special infantry selection, but I love the idea of running a horde of 30x Silver Helms in a 10x3 formation, as they really have the only Core Cavalry that can do that and I had success with a similar unit when I ran my Empire Knight Horde that way back in the day. DE's have always been intriguing due to there ability to do a lot of damage with there magic and repeating crossbows, plus they have a cool background. Basically, need some motivation to start one of these elf armies so any advice or tactics on which elf army I should go would be appreciated mates.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/04 05:37:15
Subject: Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Wood Elves are new, so you might face some flak from neophobic idiots if you go with them.
On the other hand, they are still pretty nice. Archers are still over-priced for what they do, but Dryads are pretty nice.
A Wild Hunt army built of Dryads, Wild Riders, Orion and Great Eagles could be a very hard, very fast and very hard-hitting army. It really is a shame that there isn't a beastmaster type unit in this Wood Elf book though, and Araloth's no Skaw.
We still don't have a Mage special character, although Drycha is a bit of an oddball with suddenly gaining two levels of Shadow Mage instead of her dispel spites, making her an oddball Gish.
High Elves and Dark Elves have excellent all-rounder Core choices with their Coast/Cityguard, while Wood Elves combine their shooty/punchy unit with their cavalry. Glade Riders are 19ppm for a fast cavalry, ambushers unit with spears and armour piercing longbows. They're Wood Elves, of course, so their defensive capability is basically zero. As a Bretonnian, though, aren't you bored of knights?
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/04 06:11:15
Subject: Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Hunting Glade Guard
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HE and DE have options for characters with much higher armor, and can make better combat characters. They are both also able to field armies made of ranked units and fight 'normally', which WE really shouldn't be doing.
WE are really fragile, having almost nothing in terms of defense, but hit extremely hard and are incredibly mobile, and can dominate both the magic and shooting phase thanks to their rules. Their melee combats want to be overwhelming, one-round affairs where they punch in, generate idiotic numbers of wounds, take as little back as possible, win combat, deny steadfast, and run things down.
You won't be fielding massed combat blocks really (even EG and WWR don't really get much from being fielded in huge blocks). You'll probably be more mobile than your opponent, be able to dictate and control when combat happens, and with the new focus on anti-armor across the board, you'll have tools to deal with all the 1+ that people like to field.
It's a matter of flavor, really, as both other elven armies are really good. WE might not be a dominant tournament force, but I think they will stack up well in the hands of someone who really knows their way around the movement, charge, and redirect game they have to play.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/04 13:49:15
Subject: Re:Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Evasive Pleasureseeker
Lost in a blizzard, somewhere near Toronto
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Well, what kind of play style would you think suits your best?
Wood Elves: The 'shooty elves' & true precision army.
If you like being sneaky and really enjoy the finesse of the movement phase, while pouring lots of bowfire into your helpless enemy, then go Wood Elves.
Uniquely, the Forest Spirits are a bit like having access to a 'Daemons lite' series of units. Good stats & rely generally on Ward saves to keep them safe with few additional options.
Dark Elves: The 'glass cannon' fighty army.
Outside of your characters and one or two units, DE's exemplify the fragile nature of all elves. However, your fighty prowess is on par with WoC and also get some nasty shooting & plenty of big beasties to play around with.
DE's also arguably have the game's best Fast Cavalry with access to both Core Dark Rider and the Rare Warlocks.
High Elves: The 'resilient elves' & 'jack of all trades' army.
You have high armour saves across both characters and multiple units in Core & Special, plus access to crazy unit-wide Ward saves. Not as good at fighting as DE's, or as solid shooters as WE's, but still more than competent.
Kinda the 'beginner elf army' as these guys are easily the most forgiving of the three.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/04 22:35:47
Subject: Re:Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Dakka Veteran
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Thanks for the replies so far, and from the looks of things the vast majority of people seem to think I need to go either Dark Elves or Wood Elves. Would like some more feedback on as to why I should, granted the WE are a new book and they look very solid in terms of the shooting and magic phase, but DE have a lot going for them as well in terms of special units and special rules. Plus it also makes me wonder what is all the Negativity against the HE's? Are they just not a effective army right now or is it because too many people play them at this point? Keep the feedback and advice coming mates.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/05 07:39:41
Subject: Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Hallowed Canoness
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A lot of people have had bad experiences with High Elf players getting too into character, I think.
I don't know Dark Riders, so I don't know what makes them better than Glade Riders apart from possibly not being forced into reserve.
Wood Elf special rules are pretty nice too... well. If I'm honest, my main reason for saying Wood Elves is because I've been sitting on a volcano of "you should play wood elves because they are awesome!" through years and years of a nice, but outdated, army book and now I can let it out without being laughed at!
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/05 07:48:22
Subject: Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Nimble Pistolier
Australia
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Furyou Miko wrote:A lot of people have had bad experiences with High Elf players getting too into character, I think.
Furyou Miko, did this comment come about from my story on the wood elf/high elf thread?
Or are there similar stories of your own you'd like to share?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/05 13:10:23
Subject: Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Evasive Pleasureseeker
Lost in a blizzard, somewhere near Toronto
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Furyou Miko wrote:A lot of people have had bad experiences with High Elf players getting too into character, I think.
I don't know Dark Riders, so I don't know what makes them better than Glade Riders apart from possibly not being forced into reserve.
Wood Elf special rules are pretty nice too... well. If I'm honest, my main reason for saying Wood Elves is because I've been sitting on a volcano of "you should play wood elves because they are awesome!" through years and years of a nice, but outdated, army book and now I can let it out without being laughed at!
High Elf players have begun to make themselves into the group of "That Guy" since their new book came out, similar to how most everyone else vilified all Daemon players last edition.
It's not all High Elf players who are obnoxious prats insisting that their book is barely middle tier while fielding a nasty Light Council gunline or BotWD + PG + Frosty combat line and arguing it's only mildly competitive, etc...
But after you put up with a few games of it, you tend to look with suspicion at most HE players, just like what happened (and still does to an extent) at most DoC players.
Hell, I still hear some HE players moan that BotWD isn't even a good item and that the Book of Hoeth doesn't really help dominate the Magic phase enough!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/05 13:29:48
Subject: Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Dakka Veteran
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I can understand the reasoning behind that a little, however for awhile now I have always thought the DE where the stronger Army due to there special rules and how there army book is designed overall, but I guess that is incorrect or was it more along the lines of my local meta. Saying that, I can admit I am leaning a bit more towards the DE's as I like them better then the WE as the DE have a lot more balance in there army and have some solid units, while WE can hit hard but crumble very easily. Saying that, what is the norm for a competitive DE list these days and do people even take Spearmen anymore with a DE list? Out of all the elf books, the DE one is the one I have the least knowledge about and on what makes them an effective army. But I can say I love Cold one Knights, and I wouldn't mind running a Dreadlord in a big unit of them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/05 17:22:06
Subject: Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Hallowed Canoness
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iLLiTHiD wrote:
Furyou Miko, did this comment come about from my story on the wood elf/high elf thread?
Or are there similar stories of your own you'd like to share? 
High Elf: "My archers are overcosted."
I look at his book. What are they, 5 ppm? maybe 8? And they get light armour? But of course they're far worse off than us because... well, their book is new. Or something?
Not to mention all the sneering and looking down their nose at the lesser players who can't find a way around their total magic domination and really nice toys.
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/05 18:23:54
Subject: Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Evasive Pleasureseeker
Lost in a blizzard, somewhere near Toronto
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Rommel44 wrote:I can understand the reasoning behind that a little, however for awhile now I have always thought the DE where the stronger Army due to there special rules and how there army book is designed overall, but I guess that is incorrect or was it more along the lines of my local meta. Saying that, I can admit I am leaning a bit more towards the DE's as I like them better then the WE as the DE have a lot more balance in there army and have some solid units, while WE can hit hard but crumble very easily. Saying that, what is the norm for a competitive DE list these days and do people even take Spearmen anymore with a DE list? Out of all the elf books, the DE one is the one I have the least knowledge about and on what makes them an effective army. But I can say I love Cold one Knights, and I wouldn't mind running a Dreadlord in a big unit of them.
A big part of the problem is that you have the majority of the High Elf community saying DE's are tops simply because it's a bad match-up for the HE's due to Hatred being massively better than Valour of Ages.
Overall though, High Elves can very easily endure a metric gak-tone more punishment that the DE's can. So yes, while the Dark ones hit somewhat harder due to things like Murderous Prowess and overall fightier units, they tend to die twice as fast as the High ones since they generally lack armour saves and don't get perks like army-wide Wards where needed and supporters like Forstchickens.
Hell, High Elves can do a near-entire 2+ save army if they want thanks to Silvers in Core and Dragon Princes in Special, on top of your basic armoured-up characters. And of course, you can support it with a bunch of low level Lore of Beasts wizards for plentiful Wildforms, etc...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/05 19:18:21
Subject: Re:Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It seems you are wanting to do a Cavalry Heavy army (even though you already have Bretonnians  ) and if that is the case then lets narrow it down for you:
Wood Elves: With the new Book Wood Elf Cav armies got a lot better with Ambush (I look at this as a benefit not a bad thing as it will allow you to come in late game and potentially mess up your opponents strategy) and the ability to take poison arrows which combined with other units (in particular Watwatchers) creates a nasty combo. Wild Riders are insanely good on the charge (though fragile) and the new models look awesome!. Basically if your looking for a speedy catch me if you can style of cav army that wins on a late game combo charge then this would be the one for you.
Dark Elves: Dark Riders Core with Xbows=awesome! I tested this list out a few months back (since the Wood Elf book was horrible) and it did insanely well especially when backed by Hydras, Shades and Dread Warlocks. You also have the ability to take Cold One Knights and chariots which are both extremely good. The Dark Elves would be best described as a few hard hitting strong Special Cav backed up my Dread Warlocks and Core Dark Riders, pretty balanced Cav Army.
High Elves: The best armored Cav army in the game for Elves with Silver Helms Core and Dragon Princes Special. Back them up with Eagles for Re-Directors, Phoenixes for Monstrous Creature goodness and buffs and the High Elves awesome Magic Phase and you got yourself the toughest Elf Cav army out there.
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19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/05 19:48:48
Subject: Re:Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Dakka Veteran
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gmaleron wrote:It seems you are wanting to do a Cavalry Heavy army (even though you already have Bretonnians  ) and if that is the case then lets narrow it down for you:
Wood Elves: With the new Book Wood Elf Cav armies got a lot better with Ambush (I look at this as a benefit not a bad thing as it will allow you to come in late game and potentially mess up your opponents strategy) and the ability to take poison arrows which combined with other units (in particular Watwatchers) creates a nasty combo. Wild Riders are insanely good on the charge (though fragile) and the new models look awesome!. Basically if your looking for a speedy catch me if you can style of cav army that wins on a late game combo charge then this would be the one for you.
Dark Elves: Dark Riders Core with Xbows=awesome! I tested this list out a few months back (since the Wood Elf book was horrible) and it did insanely well especially when backed by Hydras, Shades and Dread Warlocks. You also have the ability to take Cold One Knights and chariots which are both extremely good. The Dark Elves would be best described as a few hard hitting strong Special Cav backed up my Dread Warlocks and Core Dark Riders, pretty balanced Cav Army.
High Elves: The best armored Cav army in the game for Elves with Silver Helms Core and Dragon Princes Special. Back them up with Eagles for Re-Directors, Phoenixes for Monstrous Creature goodness and buffs and the High Elves awesome Magic Phase and you got yourself the toughest Elf Cav army out there.
Im not necessarily looking for a Cav Army with any of the elf armies, however I will admit that I am a fan of certain Cavalry units in each of the books. In all honesty, having an infantry based army with a single hard-hitting Cav unit and some fast cav units to help redirect is never a bad option, especially with elves.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/06 07:52:04
Subject: Re:Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Nimble Pistolier
Australia
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Rommel44 wrote:
Im not necessarily looking for a Cav Army with any of the elf armies, however I will admit that I am a fan of certain Cavalry units in each of the books. In all honesty, having an infantry based army with a single hard-hitting Cav unit and some fast cav units to help redirect is never a bad option, especially with elves.
IMO sounds like you want High Elves - you can run most of your core tax as silver helms thanks to HE's fighting in 3 ranks with a noble bsb to sweep a flank. It does a very good job for its points, and combined well with a nice block of Pheonix Guard or White Lions.
You can run Reavers and great eagles for screening/redirection too to keep your bus on target.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/07 14:11:57
Subject: Re:Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Dakka Veteran
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iLLiTHiD wrote: Rommel44 wrote:
Im not necessarily looking for a Cav Army with any of the elf armies, however I will admit that I am a fan of certain Cavalry units in each of the books. In all honesty, having an infantry based army with a single hard-hitting Cav unit and some fast cav units to help redirect is never a bad option, especially with elves.
IMO sounds like you want High Elves - you can run most of your core tax as silver helms thanks to HE's fighting in 3 ranks with a noble bsb to sweep a flank. It does a very good job for its points, and combined well with a nice block of Pheonix Guard or White Lions.
You can run Reavers and great eagles for screening/redirection too to keep your bus on target.
That was why I was looking at the HE's, as yes they are a Elite army and most people say you should run there Core at the minimum point value, however I have seen lists with more points into Core units perform quite well, as the extra bodies is always nice, and to be fair, I think a lot of people dismiss HE and DE Spearmen too quickly, as they are more then a match against almost every other armies Core Unit options, baring WOC and mayb another unit here and there.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/10 04:58:02
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/17 02:57:28
Subject: Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Been Around the Block
San Diego, CA
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Experiment 626 wrote: Furyou Miko wrote:A lot of people have had bad experiences with High Elf players getting too into character, I think. I don't know Dark Riders, so I don't know what makes them better than Glade Riders apart from possibly not being forced into reserve. Wood Elf special rules are pretty nice too... well. If I'm honest, my main reason for saying Wood Elves is because I've been sitting on a volcano of "you should play wood elves because they are awesome!" through years and years of a nice, but outdated, army book and now I can let it out without being laughed at! High Elf players have begun to make themselves into the group of "That Guy" since their new book came out, similar to how most everyone else vilified all Daemon players last edition. It's not all High Elf players who are obnoxious prats insisting that their book is barely middle tier while fielding a nasty Light Council gunline or BotWD + PG + Frosty combat line and arguing it's only mildly competitive, etc... But after you put up with a few games of it, you tend to look with suspicion at most HE players, just like what happened (and still does to an extent) at most DoC players. Hell, I still hear some HE players moan that BotWD isn't even a good item and that the Book of Hoeth doesn't really help dominate the Magic phase enough! LOL Had to exalt this. Yes I still see this, as a DE player I can freely admit things like WE + the CoB, all of our light cav, ect are ridiculously powerful. I don't know why so many HE players can't admit the BoTWD & Frosty are equally so? A good hint when something is very,very good, you see it in nearly every list. Automatically Appended Next Post: Rommel44 wrote: iLLiTHiD wrote: Rommel44 wrote:
Im not necessarily looking for a Cav Army with any of the elf armies, however I will admit that I am a fan of certain Cavalry units in each of the books. In all honesty, having an infantry based army with a single hard-hitting Cav unit and some fast cav units to help redirect is never a bad option, especially with elves.
IMO sounds like you want High Elves - you can run most of your core tax as silver helms thanks to HE's fighting in 3 ranks with a noble bsb to sweep a flank. It does a very good job for its points, and combined well with a nice block of Pheonix Guard or White Lions.
You can run Reavers and great eagles for screening/redirection too to keep your bus on target.
That was why I was looking at the HE's, as yes they are a Elite army and most people say you should run there Core at the minimum point value, however I have seen lists with more points into Core units perform quite well, as the extra bodies is always nice, and to be fair, I think a lot of people dismiss HE and DE Spearmen too quickly, as they are more then a match against almost every other armies Core Unit options, baring WOC and mayb another unit here and there.
It's not that DE spearmen are bad, they most certainly are not, it's just now they have to compete vrs Corsairs (4+ armor and 2 hand weapons) and Witch Elves (a ridiculously high number of poisoned h-t-h attacks with no save sans a Cauldron, and then just a 5+ ward). It's a problem of too many good units!!
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/17 03:04:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/21 00:34:28
Subject: Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant
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I play high elves and I've never used sisters of averlon but im told they are best ranged unit in the game and the monstrous hard as a rock phoenix guard to the availability of magic its great but I have not read about other elves and have little experience with them so dont take my word for it. Cheers.
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“We're not in Wonderland anymore Alice.”
Charles Manson. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/21 02:01:33
Subject: Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Calculating Commissar
pontiac, michigan; usa
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Wood elves actually took me a surprisingly quick amount of time to beat and I barely knew any of their army book. To be fair my opponent's game was his first time with wood elves but he had played orcs and goblins for a long, long time.
Dark elves can be fairly tough and witch elves are still pretty annoying.
High elves with BotWD on white lions is pretty dumb. I say white lions because white lions already have a 3+ armor save vs shooting (or at least magical shooting) and then the BotWD giving them a 2++ vs magical attacks of any kind. BotWD is pretty dumb in general though. Avoid taking it if you want to have friends that still want to play you.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/21 22:43:04
Subject: Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Executing Exarch
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High Elves are a great army if you want your elves to actually be hard to kill. Their core can actually be pretty good and they have one of the toughest to kill units in the game (phoenix guard). Their mages are also the kings of milking dispel dice so you can cast lots and lots of little spells very easily and then cast your big 5+ dice in the unit with the BotWD to avoid the damage from the miscast. They make for a pretty decent starter army too as the IoB models look good and are useful as well as their better armour helps keep them alive. HE tend to end up with a big combat block or two supported by a Lv4 mage, some chaff, and some other elements. (which is very 8th edition)
DE have better ranged output overall and have the ability to 6 dice spells in their warlock units with relatively little negative effects. They also hit pretty hard while still being moderately survivable. There are also lots of little combos and tricks that you can pull so if you like combos this is a good army.
WE have the best shooting in the game and some of the hardest hitters in close combat. They also have pretty good magic with their +1 to cast in forests and the widest spell selection. What is the bad? They are the most fragile army in the game. This makes them a terrible army for new or inexperienced players as if you don't know what you are doing you get shredded very fast. WE are the absolute incarnation of the glass cannon. Except for sisters of the thorn...because fast cavalry is super durable in the WE world? WE can run a pretty good "typical" 8th edition list with a big magic supported combat block with other typical elements. They can also run a "death in the woods" type list which has a small combat block (~20 eternal guard) that only holds because of the woods it stays in and the rest of the list is a variety of small hammer units, chaff, and archers. Finally the typical WE list is actually an MSU shooty type list without any real combat blocks, this type of list counts on whittling down the enemy with shooting an then using a small combat unit to finish them (usually wild riders).
I play HE and WE. I am fairly happy with both armies and feel the current army books do a pretty good job giving me a fair variety of strategies and army types which can be successful but I feel my games with WE just seem more interesting as I have to dance around the opponent more and smash through less.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/01 08:21:44
Subject: Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Yellin' Yoof
UK
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High Elf: "My archers are overcosted."
I look at his book. What are they, 5 ppm? maybe 8? And they get light armour? But of course they're far worse off than us because... well, their book is new. Or something?
Not to mention all the sneering and looking down their nose at the lesser players who can't find a way around their total magic domination and really nice toys.
they are 10 and light armour is extra, but I do agree with you.
I get sick of seeing lists that are:
Level 4 wizard w/BoH
big white lion block with BotwD
2 frost phoenix.
Gets boring really fast.
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WarlordRob117 wrote:To live as an Ork is to look at a galaxy set upon all sides by innumerable horrors...and have a good hearty larf.
Og Waaagh! Dagzhamma skar-gor.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/02 20:39:49
Subject: Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator
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I say DE. Aside from the fact that I'm not keen on forces of order (lizard folk aside) DE seem to have the best internal balance. They can do it all and you can tailor your army to play however you like with reasonable expectation of success. Plus the coolest line of models in WHFB doesnt hurt (this coming from a WoC player). WE can give it, but tend to be magic missile fodder and lord help them if they find themselves in combat. High elves are quite resilient but they seem to lack much offensive power (doubly so if you find yourself up against an equal or superior shooting and/ or magic army). Lastly I don't care for the look of many of the models.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/06/02 20:40:14
Subject: Which Elf Army Should I go and Why?
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Jealous that Horus is Warmaster
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I vote space elves
>:3
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