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One of the new Helbrute dataslates lets you take 5 helbrutes in a vehicle formation, one of which is made a character. Is there any reason you couldn't cast the Tzeentch power Gift of Mutation on him? It only states the target needs to be a character.

None I can see

That said, while most of the Chaos Boon results would work fine, a couple might need a ruling. Namely:

24: Eternal Warrior - Probably doesn't work
32: +1 wounds or full wounds - Would this translate to hull points?
33: +1 toughness - Wouldn't work
35: +1 armor Save - I guess it would get a 6+ armor save?
42: Reroll armor saves - Useless without 35
61: Stubborn - Wouldn't work
63: Feel No Pain - Depends on if vehicle wounds are still considered wounds

Any thoughts on those?

Vehicles don't take wounds (or suffer from ID) so FNP and EW helps nothing. +1 or full wounds would also do nothing for the simple reason they don't have wounds.

Vehicles don't normally have armor saves either but maybe it could apply - sadly any weapon you're using against it is probably ignoring a 6+ anyways.

 Badablack wrote:
That said, while most of the Chaos Boon results would work fine, a couple might need a ruling. Namely:

24: Eternal Warrior - Probably doesn't work
32: +1 wounds or full wounds - Would this translate to hull points?
33: +1 toughness - Wouldn't work
35: +1 armor Save - I guess it would get a 6+ armor save?
42: Reroll armor saves - Useless without 35
61: Stubborn - Wouldn't work
63: Feel No Pain - Depends on if vehicle wounds are still considered wounds

Any thoughts on those?

You could almost make the argument of nulifying the vehicle damage roll of a 6 on the first and second hull point loss to make eternal warrior work.

 Badablack wrote:
24: Eternal Warrior - Probably doesn't work
32: +1 wounds or full wounds - Would this translate to hull points?
33: +1 toughness - Wouldn't work
35: +1 armor Save - I guess it would get a 6+ armor save?
42: Reroll armor saves - Useless without 35
61: Stubborn - Wouldn't work
63: Feel No Pain - Depends on if vehicle wounds are still considered wounds

Eternal Warrior wouldn't work, as vehicles don't suffer from Instant Death anyway.

There is nothing that woudl suggest that the 32 result would translate to Hull points, no.

+1 to your armour save, or re-rolling your armour save, doesn't help you when you don't have an armour save to begin with.

And vehicles don't have wounds.

The +1 to armor save makes sense to me, as other things that give +1 to invulnerable saves give a flat 6+ when you don't have one to begin with.

The rest, yeah probably not applicable. Still a decent number of useful results if you want to risk turning your 100+ point boss dread into a spawn. And always the possibility to get Shrouded, Hatred, or Crusader, which would be pretty great on your 5-brute squad.

 Badablack wrote:
The +1 to armor save makes sense to me, as other things that give +1 to invulnerable saves give a flat 6+ when you don't have one to begin with.

And those specify they do give you a 6+ if you don't have any. Nothing in this case.

As has been said above, RAW these boons simply do not work with a vehicle. However, if you game with chill dudes it would be easy enough to make up your own stand in versions for vehicles. Eternal warrior could downgrade explodes for instance, +1 wounds could be +1 HP, +1T could be +1 AV, 6+ armor save why not. Instead of reroll armor saves owner can force reroll of pen dice.

JubbJubbz wrote:
As has been said above, RAW these boons simply do not work with a vehicle. However, if you game with chill dudes it would be easy enough to make up your own stand in versions for vehicles. Eternal warrior could downgrade explodes for instance, +1 wounds could be +1 HP, +1T could be +1 AV, 6+ armor save why not. Instead of reroll armor saves owner can force reroll of pen dice.

Some of them work just fine

+1 strength in CC
+1 strength for a shooting weapon
+1 BS
+1 WS
Shrouded
ID on a melee weapon
for example

they work just fine. The issues are with the ~6 that are pointed out above. There are 28 some options though and many of them would work just fine.


The question is, can vehicles take armor saves, even if they had one, can they use it?

I don't believe so. You take Armor saves against wounds, which vehicles never take. The same with FnP.

Vehicles can only take Invuln saves because they are explicitly allowed to.

 Exergy wrote:

JubbJubbz wrote:
As has been said above, RAW these boons simply do not work with a vehicle. However, if you game with chill dudes it would be easy enough to make up your own stand in versions for vehicles. Eternal warrior could downgrade explodes for instance, +1 wounds could be +1 HP, +1T could be +1 AV, 6+ armor save why not. Instead of reroll armor saves owner can force reroll of pen dice.

Some of them work just fine

+1 strength in CC
+1 strength for a shooting weapon
+1 BS
+1 WS
Shrouded
ID on a melee weapon
for example

they work just fine. The issues are with the ~6 that are pointed out above. There are 28 some options though and many of them would work just fine.


The question is, can vehicles take armor saves, even if they had one, can they use it?

Indeed most do work just fine, I was pointing out possible ways to reinterpret the the the ones that do not strictly work. RAW vehicles can certainly not take armor saves, they do not take "wounds" and do not have a save characteristic. However, if you're having a fun game and don't want a large portion of the table to be unusable then I feel its fairly obvious how to go beyond the RAW (gasp!) and implement workarounds.

Can vehicles take Armor Saves? Lets ask our local Riptide

Riptide can you take armor saves?

Riptide : "You do know I'm a monstrous creature right?"

What the hell?! Since when?!

Riptide : "Since they decided a non warp entity that consists of 95% mechanical gears and gizmos means that I can be 5% organic. Which apparently translates to me being a monstrous creature, not a vehicles / walker!"

Fascinating!

But yeah, there are some really nice upgrades in that Boon Chart. Question becomes, do you want to take a chance and turn your Hellbrute into a Chaos Spawn? Or a Daemon Prince for that matter? Both are actually a downgrade at that point since you won't be keeping your Primary Weapon load outs, and IIRC since you'll be a MC as a Daemon Prince you'll immediately leave the group of Hellbrutes you were originally accompanying.

It's dosent have the gift rule in its codex listing so I'm going to go with nope. All characters iirc have this rule listed under them.

@Lungpickle, what are you implying?

That a Psykers ability and table is limited to casting within it's own codex?

Also, the Boon Table is within the Hellbrute Data Slate for reference anyways.

Lungpickle wrote:
It's dosent have the gift rule in its codex listing so I'm going to go with nope. All characters iirc have this rule listed under them.

It doesn't need it, as the power contains all rules needed to resolve it on any character

I think as the rule wasn't designed for walkers, it's fair enough that some of the effects don't work on it. also +1 S is fairly useless as you're probably S10 anyway. pretty sure the other option's a weapon with its own base strength in combat, which wouldn't be affected by the brutes own strength. the powerfist, however, would.

Off-topic, but it is a decent example of fully resolving a rule that may have no outcome at all...

Being that the character helbrute is given a 5++ save, re-roll saves would work just fine.

Edit: Due to murphy's law, expect your Helbrute to turn into a spawn every single game.