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Here's what I've come up with as a flat competitive list. I think it has the tools to deal with anything. Withering + Waywatchers = dead 1+ DP. Poison and Eagles for warmachine hunting and castled Dwarves. Wild Riders to pick of Montrous Cav, lots of armour killing power through out and 2 Death wizards for sniping. Shadow for support.

Spell Weaver: lvl4, shadow: Talisman of Preservation 265

Glade Captain: BsB: Hail of Doom Arrow 130
Spell Singer: lvl2, Death: Dispell Scroll, elven steed 150
Spell Singer: lvl2, Death: elven steed 125

12 Glade Guard: hagbane, std & mus 200
12 Glade Guard: hagbane, std & mus 200
12 Glade Guard: hagbane 180
10 Glade Guard: arcane bodkins, std & mus 190

5 Wild Riders: champion, musician, shields 160
5 Wild Riders: champion, musician, shields 160
5 Sisters of the Thorne: musician 140

10 Waywatchers 200
10 Waywatchers 200
Eagle 50
Eagle 50

What do you think? Do I have enough stopping power against a horde? Obviously armoured targets are all dead but bodies cause me problems.

Personally not a fan of the glade captain bsb. Don't generally find a need for that re-roll in wood elves, I think those points would be better spent on a naked unit of sisters, let's you have 5 channels, more shots throughout the game, and draws dispel dice from your opponent who doesn't want to deal with curse of anraheir.

The way I roll Ld tests I need that BsB!

Fair enough, everything does come down to personal preference after all.

danny1995 wrote:
Fair enough, everything does come down to personal preference after all.

Now that wood elf fast cav and such are more useful, double flees are more common. That reroll is far more important than you think.


As for the list. I'd stick more Bodkins in there. Brets are a common army, and this list is wholly reliant on Waywatchers and that one unit to do anything to them.

The same goes for the Dragonbus, and the Coldonebus. Sure. You can kill that 1+ DP. But what about the Skullcrushers?

You also need to deal with Throgg & Co for it to be Competitive. You need more Glade Guard for competitive lists.

I'm thinking 2 15 man blobs with Starfire. 2 15 man blobs with bodkins. A tonne of Glade Riders with bodkins and starfire, as evenly as possible. The rest of the list, excluding chaff, is little units of 10 with trueflght.

As for the specials, I'd probably double up on Sisters, and a single pack of Wild Riders.

Dragon and Coldone buses get eaten by Waywatchers in a turn or two. Their arrows aren't magic. I mean I'm killing about 8 knights a turn with Waywatchers alone.

As for chaos Prince dies and then I start chipping away with arrows and bodkins. Wild Riders finish them off. Hence why I have 2 units. I don't see any value in 2 units of Sisters. 1 has value particularly in this list. Starfire would be good against Throgg not that I've ever come up against him but why would you want more than 1 unit. Starfire and Moonfire are strickly for when you know what you're facing I wouldn't go near them otherwise or you're just wasting points in half your games.

l've already over invested in core don't think I need more glade guard at all.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Dragon and Coldone buses get eaten by Waywatchers in a turn or two. Their arrows aren't magic. I mean I'm killing about 8 knights a turn with Waywatchers alone.

As for chaos Prince dies and then I start chipping away with arrows and bodkins. Wild Riders finish them off. Hence why I have 2 units. I don't see any value in 2 units of Sisters. 1 has value particularly in this list. Starfire would be good against Throgg not that I've ever come up against him but why would you want more than 1 unit. Starfire and Moonfire are strickly for when you know what you're facing I wouldn't go near them otherwise or you're just wasting points in half your games.

l've already over invested in core don't think I need more glade guard at all.

You're relying on 20 shots to hit, wound and kill a bus that moves 18" in a turn. This includes the characters who can solo charge. The Cold one bus I digress, but the T4 goes some way to alleviate that. But the Dragonbus still has that 6+ ward to deal with. More often than not, it's buffed by high magic too. The same goes for Skullcrushers and Mournfang.

And in a competitive meta, which is currently dominated by WoC Throgg lists, you need to be able to deal with the 18 trolls.

The point is, you're pulling dwarf tactics of sit back and shoot with an army that does not have enough firepower to do this or the resiliency to do it either. You should be playing to your strengths in the army. That is mobile shooting.

This list'll fall flat on itself in a competitive setting. I'm sorry, but that needs to be said.

The competitive scene is dominated by Throgg at the moment? I've not seen it played at any level. Starfire does help deal with it but as stated is mono purpose and wasted points against half the armies out there.

Knight buses and Montrous Cav are not a problem for this list. I don't know a way I could build any list that is better at dealing with them than this list.

Also you're being hugely contradictory. You're saying I'm a static gunline because I've got lots of glade guard and that a static gunline won't work and to solve it I need more glade guard? What males you think this is static? The hagbane is for dealing with high toughness but also to mean I don't hugely care about shooting penalties. Its the compromise between taking trueflight and still being able to deal with war machines.

Glade Riders being forced to ambush curtails their usefulness. So what are you suggesting the list needs? Or are you saying Wood Elves aren't competitive? Don't suggest more Glade Guard as you state they don't work and don't suggest double Sisters because that is not viable or a good spend of points.


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For dealing with Throgg I'd drop a musician and give BoEF to a hagbane unit.

BOEF doesn't work with hagbane unfortunately

 FlingitNow wrote:
The competitive scene is dominated by Throgg at the moment? I've not seen it played at any level. Starfire does help deal with it but as stated is mono purpose and wasted points against half the armies out there.

Knight buses and Montrous Cav are not a problem for this list. I don't know a way I could build any list that is better at dealing with them than this list.

Also you're being hugely contradictory. You're saying I'm a static gunline because I've got lots of glade guard and that a static gunline won't work and to solve it I need more glade guard? What males you think this is static? The hagbane is for dealing with high toughness but also to mean I don't hugely care about shooting penalties. Its the compromise between taking trueflight and still being able to deal with war machines.

Glade Riders being forced to ambush curtails their usefulness. So what are you suggesting the list needs? Or are you saying Wood Elves aren't competitive? Don't suggest more Glade Guard as you state they don't work and don't suggest double Sisters because that is not viable or a good spend of points.


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For dealing with Throgg I'd drop a musician and give BoEF to a hagbane unit.

As said, Hagbanes can't be flaming.

And as for mobility, that's achieved with multiple minimal units. That way, you can double flee and shoot some more.

And if you don't see the Throgg list, then you really don't play in a competitive environment. I'm sorry, but Throgg and his trolls are in 99.99% of ALL competitive WoC lists.

And as you said. You're relying on 20 S3 shots to deal with T4 models. You must roll horribly well. I struggle with 30 crossbowmen, 4 bolt throwers and death magic. Which I get to reroll to wound.

Oh yes I'd have to drop magic arrows good point or I coukd swap 1 unit over to starfire.

So you suggest smaller units now. Have you even read the list? The biggest unit I have is 12 men, when you suggested units of 15. That is a whole 2 men over minimum. The only units I have that are larger than minimum are the Waywatchers due to only be allowed 2 units and they're still only 10 strong. Again you contradict yourself.

Neither COK nor Dragon Princes are T4. If you're talking about Monstrous Cav I will likely have Withering and/or Soulblight plus they generally don't have a lot of wounds. All I need to do is weaken them and the Wild Riders will murder them or just gang up the Wild Riders. Throgg unit is dealt with in much the same way.

I rely on 20 shots that ignore armour that is the equivalent killing power as 120 bs6 crossbowmen shots against the 1+ plus save guys. As stated they aren't my only tool but yes they are better than 30 Crossbowmen and 24 S4 bolts. Plus Shadow and Death debuffs plus the hardest hitting anti MCav unit in the game...


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Here's the maths we'll even include cheating with the Cauldron. We'll assume long range for you but not for me as I am scouts and assume neither has moved (which means you can't do this on turn 1) we're also ignoring the likely magical debuffs I'll certainly have and you may have.

60 shots 20 hits 11.111 wounds 1.85 unsaved wounds.
24 shots 12 hits 9 wounds 3 unsaved wounds total 4.85 unsaved wounds.

20 shots 16.67 hits 5.56 unsaved wounds.

That was (assuming 300 for Cauldron and no command for you) 940 points of your armies shooting vs 400 of mine...

There should only be one unit above 10 glade guard in a competitive Wood Elf army. This is the level 4 bunker. These guys take either Arcane Bodkins or Starfire.

The rest are units of 10. This gets you more drops, which wood elves need. They also function as chaff. These units take Trueflight arrows. As they'll be double fleeing stuff and rallying.

You need about seventy glade guard to compete. It's the same boat as the old book. You're relying on all the glade guard to kill stuff before they reach you.

Sure, you can rely on wild riders. But they're as fragile as a wet paper towel. And with units of 5, a flank charge will end them for a fact.

As for the sisters, are you putting characters in there? Remember, one failed ward means no LoS.

And as for the this list being able to deal with the troll unit, it won't. 99% of lists out there can't. Those include far shootier Wood elf lists. Simply because it's 54 wounds at T4 with a 4+ regen. The same goes for ogre lists. The amount of wounds will just push through, and the ability to gain +1 toughness or 4+ regen will make the victory for this list nearly, if not totally, impossible.

The new Wood Elf book is in the same boat as the new Dwarf book. The old lists are the way forward. If you want competitive, double fleeing Glade Guard lists are what you need. And that is a fact.


As for the hardest hitting anti MC unit in the game, that is either white lions, Cold One Knights, or Executioners. Wild Riders are not up there in any way.

U didn't say I could definitely deal with a Throgg bus but it is not unbeatable with the list. Withering makes a huge difference.

Your strange contradictory meanderings on Glade aside you are aware I'm running practically all minimum units right? I've explained why Hagbane got the nod over trueflight. If I had an acorn it might be different.

As for the hardest hitting anti MC unit in the game, that is either white lions, Cold One Knights, or Executioners. Wild Riders are not up there in any way.

Oh dear just oh dear. Do I even have to point out how laughably inaccurate this is or are you just going to apologise for having a brain fart?

I'd like to ask you how you have decided the "only" way to play wood elves in a competitive environment after 3 and a half days, no tournament anywhere is letting anyone use the rules yet for tournaments.

Local tournaments perhaps? Really competitive gaming group?

I really wish I had time to fully analyse the new book, damn uni.

 FlingitNow wrote:
U didn't say I could definitely deal with a Throgg bus but it is not unbeatable with the list. Withering makes a huge difference.

Your strange contradictory meanderings on Glade aside you are aware I'm running practically all minimum units right? I've explained why Hagbane got the nod over trueflight. If I had an acorn it might be different.

As for the hardest hitting anti MC unit in the game, that is either white lions, Cold One Knights, or Executioners. Wild Riders are not up there in any way.

Oh dear just oh dear. Do I even have to point out how laughably inaccurate this is or are you just going to apologise for having a brain fart?

Again, in the case of double flees, I'd much rather get more hits, rather than have 1/6 of my hits wound.

As for that point, I stand by it. Strength 5 vs 1+ does the same as S4. In that it does not cut it. You need S6 to take out Demis in combat. It's a widely acknowledged fact on the tournament scene. Which I'm beginning to think you aren't actually a part of.

danny1995 wrote:
I'd like to ask you how you have decided the "only" way to play wood elves in a competitive environment after 3 and a half days, no tournament anywhere is letting anyone use the rules yet for tournaments.

Because, the book hasn't actually changed. If we stick to the basic principles of what made the old wood elf book competitive, that rules out the tree, sit back and shoot, and combat lists. I can't actually be bothered to explain why, if you can't see it, excuse yourself from competitive play. This leaves us with one build. The double flee 70+ glade guard list. Now if we go back to my original point, it actually means that you can apply the same list from the old book, with minor tweaks, I.E. Arcane Bodkins on the big units, and Trueflight on all the little double-flee units, to make it competitive.

You could also include eagle mounted characters, but with the absence of the 3+ wards, they're not nearly as effective as they used to be.

Again, in the case of double flees, I'd much rather get more hits, rather than have 1/6 of my hits wound. 

As for that point, I stand by it. Strength 5 vs 1+ does the same as S4. In that it does not cut it. You need S6 to take out Demis in combat. It's a widely acknowledged fact on the tournament scene. Which I'm beginning to think you aren't actually a part of. 

Yes there is an argument for trueflight over hagbane. In certain match ups the Hagbane gives you the ability to deal with Warmachines that trueflight doesn't. But trying to pretend it makes the difference between a competitive list and not is widely inaccurate. As for getting more Glade guard at the expense of Death Wizards fast cav or Waywatchers is again laughably off base.

S5 armour piercing is no better against 1+ than S4? Seriously do some maths or play some games I've already proved your wild inaccuracy in this thread once do you really want me to do it again?

Right 260 points gets you 20 White Lions, nearly 22 Executioners, 10 Wild Riders and less than 9 COKs. We'll assume the charge against T4 1+ not in woods though as Wild Riders are the only M9 fast cav in the group realistically they are the only ones that can effectively guarantee thecharge, with Infantry almost guaranteed not getting the charge:

20 White at I5 (same as skullcrushers) 10 hits 8.33 wounding hits 4.167 unsaved wounds.

22 Executioners likewise I5 11 hits 10.69 wounding hits 5.35 unsaved wounds

9 Coldone Knights at ASF 6.75 hits 6.56 wounds 3.28 unsaved wounds

10 Wild Riders at ASF 22.5 hits 15 wounds 7.5 unsaved wounds.

So by your logic 3.28 is a bigger number than 7.5? Is 5.35 also bigger than 7.5? Really? Can you please now concede you have no idea how Warhammer works? Wild Riders die to a stiff breeze but in terms of damage output against Monstrous Cav nothing is better than them. When I tell you these facts they actually are facts you would be better off asking me to explain them to you because you don't understand Warhammer rather than telling me I'm wrong just before I prove your foolishness yet again...

 FlingitNow wrote:

Again, in the case of double flees, I'd much rather get more hits, rather than have 1/6 of my hits wound. 

As for that point, I stand by it. Strength 5 vs 1+ does the same as S4. In that it does not cut it. You need S6 to take out Demis in combat. It's a widely acknowledged fact on the tournament scene. Which I'm beginning to think you aren't actually a part of. 

Yes there is an argument for trueflight over hagbane. In certain match ups the Hagbane gives you the ability to deal with Warmachines that trueflight doesn't. But trying to pretend it makes the difference between a competitive list and not is widely inaccurate. As for getting more Glade guard at the expense of Death Wizards fast cav or Waywatchers is again laughably off base.

S5 armour piercing is no better against 1+ than S4? Seriously do some maths or play some games I've already proved your wild inaccuracy in this thread once do you really want me to do it again?

Right 260 points gets you 20 White Lions, nearly 22 Executioners, 10 Wild Riders and less than 9 COKs. We'll assume the charge against T4 1+ not in woods though as Wild Riders are the only M9 fast cav in the group realistically they are the only ones that can effectively guarantee thecharge, with Infantry almost guaranteed not getting the charge:

20 White at I5 (same as skullcrushers) 10 hits 8.33 wounding hits 4.167 unsaved wounds.

22 Executioners likewise I5 11 hits 10.69 wounding hits 5.35 unsaved wounds

9 Coldone Knights at ASF 6.75 hits 6.56 wounds 3.28 unsaved wounds

10 Wild Riders at ASF 22.5 hits 15 wounds 7.5 unsaved wounds.

So by your logic 3.28 is a bigger number than 7.5? Is 5.35 also bigger than 7.5? Really? Can you please now concede you have no idea how Warhammer works? Wild Riders die to a stiff breeze but in terms of damage output against Monstrous Cav nothing is better than them. When I tell you these facts they actually are facts you would be better off asking me to explain them to you because you don't understand Warhammer rather than telling me I'm wrong just before I prove your foolishness yet again...

Are you pulling numbers out of thin air? 10 Wild Riders have 20 attacks on the charge. 1 basic, 1 for frenzy, and 1 for dev charge.

That means hitting MC on 4s means roughly 10 hits, rerolls means another approximate 5.

This means that they get about 12 wounds, roughly six of which are unsaved. (This is assuming skullcrushers, Ogre players take 0 wounds because they pass all their parries. It's an unwritten rule.)

22 executioners however, Get roughly 11 hits, About 8 wounds. 4 Go through. Roughly. Rerolls mean about another 1. I really can't be bothered to explain why Executioners are still the top Skullcrusher killer out there, for combat.

Come next turn, the Wild Riders will be dead, and the Executioners will kill the MC.

The point of S6 against MC is that you wound easier. The armour penetration is good, but secondary.

And furthermore. Executioners do those wounds on and off of the charge. If Wild Riders get charged, they lose. Flat out.

Most MC is WS4 so you might need to redo your math there as WR are WS5, also do it with 21 attacks for Full Command. They are not meant to be charged, if you compare wood elves to anything without entirely changing your tactics you will not realise their potential. Also getting 6 wounds through on unit of MC almost always ends them, no one runs them in more than 4, otherwise they lose attacks. If my 10 wild riders kill 3 of your 4 Demigryphs, you can get 5 attacks back, even if EVERY one of of those kills a model, I still just won combat by minimum of 4. That's a big deal. It's not even worth comparing to an outside army, they are one of the best options we have for anti MC, and in terms of competitive play they can fill other rolls as well if they find an army that doesn't have any MC. The theme of the wood elf book is not brute force, it's options, lots of them.

dont forget the STR4 stags who have frenzy also.10 str4 attacks..

Tsilber wrote:
dont forget the STR4 stags who have frenzy also.10 str4 attacks..

Frenzy doesn't confer to the mount.

Thats an extra 0.4 wounds, kind of negligible, but added to the actual value from the wildriders 6.4 wounds, could average you up to 7 wounds. Not really a big deal, but you know, worth realizing.

I think the stags have frenzy aswell, it says what applies just to the rider and just to the mount. Until they FAQ it, it reads to me like the stag gets frenzy too.... its an angry bambi.

Are you pulling numbers out of thin air? 10 Wild Riders have 20 attacks on the charge. 1 basic, 1 for frenzy, and 1 for dev charge. 

That means hitting MC on 4s means roughly 10 hits, rerolls means another approximate 5.

This means that they get about 12 wounds, roughly six of which are unsaved. (This is assuming skullcrushers, Ogre players take 0 wounds because they pass all their parries. It's an unwritten rule.)

22 executioners however, Get roughly 11 hits, About 8 wounds. 4 Go through. Roughly. Rerolls mean about another 1. I really can't be bothered to explain why Executioners are still the top Skullcrusher killer out there, for combat.

Come next turn, the Wild Riders will be dead, and the Executioners will kill the MC.

The point of S6 against MC is that you wound easier. The armour penetration is good, but secondary.

And furthermore. Executioners do those wounds on and off of the charge. If Wild Riders get charged, they lose. Flat out.

10 x 3 = 20? Seriously that is your argument? As others noted I didn't add in the stags they go after the skull Crushers and S4 means they do little to nothing. I've already stated why Wild Riders should always get the charge if you don't understand that then just admit you have no clue about Warhammer (which you've already repeatedly proven in this thread).

Yes Executioners are great Monstrous Cav fighters but lack of mobility means you can't guarantee it. Also going at the same time as Skullcrushers hurts them in the above scenario 3 Skull Crushers deal 3.75 wounds to the Executioners at I5 one dies then the juggers do another 4.16 including stomps you probably lose combat (if they charged you lose by 5 but are steadfast) and a 3rd of your numbers. The Wild Riders take just 2 casualties and put the Juggers on a double 1.

danny1995 I was working against Skullcrushers who are Ws5 also. But yeah against Other MC it just gets better against Mournfang with 10 guys you do nearly 10 wounds with Wild Riders and the stags contribute too as they only have a 2+.

Also the stags appear to have Frenzy as well as the riders so would get the 2 attacks. Though not sure this is intended due to WoC FaQ and would play it as 1 attack until a FaQ says different.

Remind me never to play Fantasy against either of you. Jeez, you've completely killed any notion of fun.

I don't plan against skull crushers for combat, they're too good at it. Skull crushers meet Way Watchers, Way Watcher meet Skull Crushers. 10 S4 no save shots, kill one a turn, and run away. If I'm running 2 units of 10 (which in my opinion you should, make people cheesing out 1+ saves cry) you can wipe out a unit of 4 in two turns assuming nothing else is doing anything to them, and the 20 Way Watchers only cost 100 points more than that unit. I like picking fights where I want, when I want, and the new woodies are absolute awesome at this because their hammer units actually got better (wild riders primarily)

 FlingitNow wrote:

Are you pulling numbers out of thin air? 10 Wild Riders have 20 attacks on the charge. 1 basic, 1 for frenzy, and 1 for dev charge. 

That means hitting MC on 4s means roughly 10 hits, rerolls means another approximate 5.

This means that they get about 12 wounds, roughly six of which are unsaved. (This is assuming skullcrushers, Ogre players take 0 wounds because they pass all their parries. It's an unwritten rule.)

22 executioners however, Get roughly 11 hits, About 8 wounds. 4 Go through. Roughly. Rerolls mean about another 1. I really can't be bothered to explain why Executioners are still the top Skullcrusher killer out there, for combat.

Come next turn, the Wild Riders will be dead, and the Executioners will kill the MC.

The point of S6 against MC is that you wound easier. The armour penetration is good, but secondary.

And furthermore. Executioners do those wounds on and off of the charge. If Wild Riders get charged, they lose. Flat out.

10 x 3 = 20? Seriously that is your argument? As others noted I didn't add in the stags they go after the skull Crushers and S4 means they do little to nothing. I've already stated why Wild Riders should always get the charge if you don't understand that then just admit you have no clue about Warhammer (which you've already repeatedly proven in this thread).

Yes Executioners are great Monstrous Cav fighters but lack of mobility means you can't guarantee it. Also going at the same time as Skullcrushers hurts them in the above scenario 3 Skull Crushers deal 3.75 wounds to the Executioners at I5 one dies then the juggers do another 4.16 including stomps you probably lose combat (if they charged you lose by 5 but are steadfast) and a 3rd of your numbers. The Wild Riders take just 2 casualties and put the Juggers on a double 1.

danny1995 I was working against Skullcrushers who are Ws5 also. But yeah against Other MC it just gets better against Mournfang with 10 guys you do nearly 10 wounds with Wild Riders and the stags contribute too as they only have a 2+.

Also the stags appear to have Frenzy as well as the riders so would get the 2 attacks. Though not sure this is intended due to WoC FaQ and would play it as 1 attack until a FaQ says different.

How are you deploying the wild riders? Unless it's 10*1, they don't. If they're 5*2 they have 20. 6 wide, 22. So on and so forth.

They're fast Cav I deploy them how the situation demands.

danny1995 I have 20 Waywatchers in 2 units of 10 in the list. I'm only running 5s of Wild Riders so I can weaken a unit with Waywatchers and finish it with Wild Riders.

In terms of listieness, the actual purpose of the thread, I'd do 10 WR if you could, lets you disrupt ranks in the flank on a charge if you're doing it right. Can really help force that double 1 requirement.


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Add to that the fact that running them as one unit gives you 20 points to play with.

Disruption doesn't effect steadfast and I need to take zero casualties for even that to be true and with T3 & 4+/6++ that is unlikely to be the case.