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Sorry I know there is the monster thread going on about 7th rumors, but since we all know its coming out now, I was wondering if anyone knew WHY. It seems really soon after DV, and while I am not crazy about everything in 6th, it still seemed to look like it was going well. I am not a hardcore 40k player like most of you, so I dont know whats wrong with the current version. I mean, I assume there must be issues if GW is doing this. Can anyone name a few reasons why this might be a good thing? What is terribly wrong with 6th?

Could it be poor sales?

The release will fall just before the end of financial year and GWs half year report was so bad their share price fell 25% over night.

They're desperate to make their profit margin look good for their shareholders.
A new edition will bump sales because apparently the SM dex and knights (which sold amazingly well) wasn't enough.

 MWHistorian wrote:
They're desperate to make their profit margin look good for their shareholders.
A new edition will bump sales because apparently the SM dex and knights (which sold amazingly well) wasn't enough.

Will it? At the point I and my group are at, it's most likely most of us will either totally ignore the new edition, or get a freebie along the line, stick it on our phones and call it a digital edition.

EDIT: It helps that both GW stores near me have banned in-store games, as they've been reduced to three tables: One for newbie 40k, one for newbie fantasy [but it's become a diorama now, because the areas avoid fantasy like the plague for some reason], and on for newbie painting. Which is rather ironic considering the past few years, not a single new player has passed through the entrance.

First full year of 6th: Revenue up by 2.9%, corrected for inflation that makes it a .1% or .4% increase (I forget the number).

First half of the second year of 6th: Revenue is down by 11% despite the SM codex coming out. Stocks take a beating.

Short answer? Money.

Long Answer? More Money.

KTG17 wrote:
I assume there must be issues if GW is doing this.

Why do you assume that?

 DarknessEternal wrote:

KTG17 wrote:
I assume there must be issues if GW is doing this.

Why do you assume that?

Because they said 6th was going to last a long time so they could update all the codexes for 6th.
Because their last financial report wasn't good and caused many shareholders to sell off stock.
Because it's coming in so close on the heels of 6th edition. (less than two years.)
Because it fits their pattern of rapid short term money grabs at the expense of building and keeping their player base.

I'm still amazing that GW is still operating.

IMO, im not marketing or economist expert, but it would be to drop the prices on all their units, encourage people to build bigger armies, play larger games, collect more.

Right now people are being so picky and choosy about what they buy or what army to start because it so freaking expensive to build one, that if you buy a tac squad then find out its garbo, your are out 40 bucks.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

KTG17 wrote:
I assume there must be issues if GW is doing this.

Why do you assume that?

Because they said 6th was going to last a long time so they could update all the codexes for 6th.

Not disputing this, MWHistorian, but can you provide a source for this? I vaguely recall reading that at some point, and it would be damning justification for my brewing hate of 7th edition .

 Backspacehacker wrote:
I'm still amazing that GW is still operating.

IMO, im not marketing or economist expert, but it would be to drop the prices on all their units, encourage people to build bigger armies, play larger games, collect more.

Right now people are being so picky and choosy about what they buy or what army to start because it so freaking expensive to build one, that if you buy a tac squad then find out its garbo, your are out 40 bucks.

I haven't ever really minded the price of 40k as much, because pretty much any wargame is going to have a very high cost. As far as I can tell the 40k models are priced competitively with 28mm models from other companies that aren't Mantic, but you need a lot more 40k models than you do models from most other 28mm games in order to have a functional army. I will admit my experience with 28mm wargames is kind of limited (historical games aren't something I've looked at) so I could be totally wrong.

It could also have something to do with the fact that GW miniatures are actually really detailed and have tons of pieces and options relative to a lot of other companies. I know that the first time I opened a box from a non-GW miniatures company I was greeted by a plastic bag full of loose parts and no instructions. That was a very eye opening experience.

What bothers me is that some people are optimistic that this will be a solid edition and fix problems from 6th.

Does anybody realize how many books the GW design studio has released in the last two years? I think it was 22 army books over the course of 24 months. Does anybody actually believe that the people who wrote the DA flyers of the CSM Mutilators had enough time to write the 6th ed book, then two army books, and plan it all out for a new edition just a short while away? While releasing many other armies and supplements?

I have no faith that this will fell like anything other than a rushed release with rushed rules with rushed fixes.

People forget that most model lines are single pose no optional parts models. GW almost gives you a whole free model in optional parts for each model in a box. There's a reason people do loads of conversions and its because we've loads of parts. Other ranges don't do that, even Privateer Press has only recently started with their newish plastics line.

Also GW models in the UK Are pretty fairly priced; overseas in places like Australia there can be a bigger gap, but often as now GW is not the only company with the price increase (indeed Ozland has importing problems which causes many companies to raise relative prices in that region - for what reason I hear multiple arguments for but in general there is a reason).

People (internet people) are oft quick to wish GW to die; mostly they are people who either think that by saying it enough GW will do what they (the player) wants; or they are simply bored of the game, but unwilling to admit that part of that isn't necessarily GW, but that their own tastes and desires have change.d


I do also agree, GW games have always been larger scale - if you want 5 models aside you go for Infinity or Malifaux; if you want more you look toward Hordes or Warmachine - if you want loads its GW or Mantic (and honestly Mantic have some good ideas, but I'm not as much a fan of their design and artistic direction).

GW could do themselves a lot of favours if they released some small scale hero focused rules editions - not even new models (just us existing 40K/Fantasy hero models) ; just a rules setup that lets people get into the GW game and miniature range at the smaller scale. They've done this in the past so they can certainly do it all again if they want.

Naked cash grab before the end of the fiscal year + the unspoken admission that 6th is pretty much broke.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
What bothers me is that some people are optimistic that this will be a solid edition and fix problems from 6th.

Does anybody realize how many books the GW design studio has released in the last two years? I think it was 22 army books over the course of 24 months. Does anybody actually believe that the people who wrote the DA flyers of the CSM Mutilators had enough time to write the 6th ed book, then two army books, and plan it all out for a new edition just a short while away? While releasing many other armies and supplements?

I have no faith that this will fell like anything other than a rushed release with rushed rules with rushed fixes.

This.

I've put my current To Buy list on hold until the book comes out. I'll pick that up, play a couple games, then decide on whether I'm going to stay. I'll stay if 7e is on par with 6e; if it's worse, well, I'll just box everything up until 8e hits next year...

I grew up during what I consider GW's Golden Age, where they had a bunch of games going on, besides 40k and WFB, like Man O War, Warhammer Quest, Necromunda, Epic, etc, and to be honest I think GW just focusing on three games hurts them in the long run. The reason I say this is because as gamers, we're interested in trying different games. Over the years I collected a ton of games, and some of my favorite games are non-GW, but I also have those older GW games too. The point is that while I was still into 40k, I bought lots of games, including just about all GWs, but to be honest as much as I love the 40k setting, I just sick of it. Especially the rules too.

To me, opening a new game box is like opening a door to a new universe. I feel like a kid on christmas. So even tho GW has been cranking out so many army books lately, I haven't been interested in collecting them. I wasnt even interested in the new Space Marine stuff. The quality is superb, but I am just bored with it. I am not into WFB, and I hate LOTR/Hobbit.

So what do I spend my money on? Mostly buying stuff for my other games on Ebay. If GW put out more variety I would probably buy those games as new games are exciting, but its almost like they are telling me not to spend money on them, and I am not the customer they are looking for. I actually think they are in fantasy land if they think the average gamer is going to construct epic sized armies in 28mm scale, especially with these rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I want to add that I really liked the 6th ed set, and didnt expand much on what came in it. I will prob stick with it. And I am def not buying 7th if its got a stripped down rulebook while the new main one runs around $100 as I hear. I dont need a 500 page rulebook either. Geez, who does?

About sums it up

 Overread wrote:
Also GW models in the UK Are pretty fairly priced; overseas in places like Australia there can be a bigger gap, but often as now GW is not the only company with the price increase (indeed Ozland has importing problems which causes many companies to raise relative prices in that region - for what reason I hear multiple arguments for but in general there is a reason).

I live there. I can honestly say GW are the only ones doing it. Some charge more than you'd expect but stay in that nice 'affordable' bracket, but none hit the obscene amounts GW expect us to pay. What compounds it is models needed as well. GW is the only game where, buying retail, we're paying $500-$750, sometimes up to $1000 depending on the army, for a 'standard' sized army. Their prices here are absolutely obscene.

My Tyranid army, if bought at current retail prices, would cost about $1000au. Without a codex or rulebook or any modelling supplies to build and paint it, nor any terrain to use in a game.

It's 1500pts.

A good example is the comment that often gets said - who pays $120 for a rulebook?

We do in Australia.

-Loki- wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Also GW models in the UK Are pretty fairly priced; overseas in places like Australia there can be a bigger gap, but often as now GW is not the only company with the price increase (indeed Ozland has importing problems which causes many companies to raise relative prices in that region - for what reason I hear multiple arguments for but in general there is a reason).

I live there. I can honestly say GW are the only ones doing it. Some charge more than you'd expect but stay in that nice 'affordable' bracket, but none hit the obscene amounts GW expect us to pay. What compounds it is models needed as well. GW is the only game where, buying retail, we're paying $500-$750, sometimes up to $1000 depending on the army, for a 'standard' sized army. Their prices here are absolutely obscene.

My Tyranid army, if bought at current retail prices, would cost about $1000au. Without a codex or rulebook or any modelling supplies to build and paint it, nor any terrain to use in a game.

It's 1500pts.

A good example is the comment that often gets said - who pays $120 for a rulebook?

We do in Australia.

As a fellow Australian I have to second this. While some FLGSs might have a small mark up on non-GW I've never felt cheated at all. When I look at the 15% off prices my FLGS gives for GW and compare that to American pricing I can't feel anything but cheated.

dementedwombat wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
I'm still amazing that GW is still operating.

IMO, im not marketing or economist expert, but it would be to drop the prices on all their units, encourage people to build bigger armies, play larger games, collect more.

Right now people are being so picky and choosy about what they buy or what army to start because it so freaking expensive to build one, that if you buy a tac squad then find out its garbo, your are out 40 bucks.

I haven't ever really minded the price of 40k as much, because pretty much any wargame is going to have a very high cost. As far as I can tell the 40k models are priced competitively with 28mm models from other companies that aren't Mantic, but you need a lot more 40k models than you do models from most other 28mm games in order to have a functional army. I will admit my experience with 28mm wargames is kind of limited (historical games aren't something I've looked at) so I could be totally wrong.

It could also have something to do with the fact that GW miniatures are actually really detailed and have tons of pieces and options relative to a lot of other companies. I know that the first time I opened a box from a non-GW miniatures company I was greeted by a plastic bag full of loose parts and no instructions. That was a very eye opening experience.

Perhaps this is a symptom of living in Australia and having seen GWs pricing here but I absolutely disagree.
For the same price as a GW rulebook and codex I can get:
An average sized infinity army (technically better sculpts in every way), rules are free.
An average sized Dystopian Wars fleet and rulebook (totally different scale but the details are much smaller and clearer so again, technically better imo).
Or
The rules and enough models for not one but TWO above average X wing forces.

So I simply don't see the hobby as that expensive, its just a couple of hundred bucks here and there. GW on the other hand have priced themselves right out of the market and I am sure that is at least partly the reason they are scrambling for some quick cash before the next report.

KTG17 wrote:Could it be poor sales?

It could be because the invisible pink unicorn told them in a dream to do it.

So long as we're speculating, I'm going to say that the illuminati, which caused the US government to assassinate JFK and cause 9/11, worked though chinese campaign donors to secretly elect a kenyan muslim to the US presidency so that he could use fascism to promote freemasonry's attempt to get the US to launch a secret invasion of the bermuda triangle to search for UFO's.

 Ailaros wrote:

KTG17 wrote:Could it be poor sales?

It could be because the invisible pink unicorn told them in a dream to do it.

So long as we're speculating, I'm going to say that the illuminati, which caused the US government to assassinate JFK and cause 9/11, worked though chinese campaign donors to secretly elect a kenyan muslim to the US presidency so that he could use fascism to promote freemasonry's attempt to get the US to launch a secret invasion of the bermuda triangle to search for UFO's.

Except we know that GWs sales have fallen by over 10% in the last report and where on the decline for years before that...

 jonolikespie wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

KTG17 wrote:Could it be poor sales?

It could be because the invisible pink unicorn told them in a dream to do it.

So long as we're speculating, I'm going to say that the illuminati, which caused the US government to assassinate JFK and cause 9/11, worked though chinese campaign donors to secretly elect a kenyan muslim to the US presidency so that he could use fascism to promote freemasonry's attempt to get the US to launch a secret invasion of the bermuda triangle to search for UFO's.

Except we know that GWs sales have fallen by over 10% in the last report and where on the decline for years before that...

And patterns have formed over time that can be read.
Don't be a donkey.

Hmm, if only past performance were an indicator of future results.

Alas.

Yes, I am aware of that concept, but all that other crap you were on about is entirely unnecessary. Yes it is a guess that this is because of a bad report, but it is an educated guess with some merit to it, unlike you're deliberately obsurd example.

A single data point does not a convincing argument make. Especially when it's wrapped up in a post-hoc fallacy.

It would be easier to be indignant about someone pointing out the crappiness of one's arguments, if one didn't put forward such crappy arguments.

7th edition will come out because of the reasons they came out with 7th edition, not because of wishful thinking and rampant speculation from the peanut gallery, no matter how educated they claim their guesses are.

There has to be a reason fir GW breaking its 4 year cycle.
They have shown time and again they don't care much (if at all) about the state of the rules and have no interest in adjusting them with the help of customer feedback.
What other reason do you propose other that a quick cash grab (which is not outside their short term business strategy at all I might add) to cover a report whose first half caused the companies share price to drop 25% overnight and have its largest investor pull out?

Its speculation, but I haven't heard a better theory yet.

Who knows why there is 7th ed now? One can rattle off any number of reasons. Money, 6th 2 shooty (orks and blood coming soon per rumors), glaring mistakes, Deathstar armies f'in up the fun...... Who knows. Its coming and who knows why and what it brings.

I wont buy right away. Let the dust settle and borrow a copy at the local club. 18 month old daughter in my house kinda over rules gaming books.

Reason?

6th ed sucked so much for so many armies that players stopped buying more models and rulebooks because they'd rather quit than buy a whole new army to be able to play without being required to be a "master tactician" to get what they have to work.

I know so SO many people that quit shortly after 6th and havent bought a model since. Because 6th edition killed their already "weaker than average" army to the point where they cant play it unless everything goes perfectly according to plan.

New edition releases, old players come back thinking maybe things have changed to help their army be viable again. I will be very, very surprised if they dont revamp close combat from the ground up since 6th ed killed it so, so badly.

Except GW have shown on multiple occasions they are unaware of the wider meta, design the game in a way they like rather than a balanced way, and don't care about customer feed back.

I don't for a minute believe GW are brining out a new edition to fix 6th, so a quick cash grab is the next most likely option.

I'll be honest. I enjoyed the gak out of 6th. But my group didn't go berserk with new combos, didn't touch allies, and I'm the only one who ever used a flyer (a flying Tyrant). Just using our 5th edition armies exactly as they were in 5th edition is super duper fun for us.

The main reason we've soured on 40k and moved to Infinity is simply the price here in Australia, and the pace of new releases. It's just gotten completely out of control. Prices (as I mentioned above) are just absolutely insane. My Tyranid example would have bought me 2 Warmachine armies, 5 Infinity armies, more than half a dozen Malifaux crews, multiple Dropzone Commander armies... It's just absurd.

Keeping up with the pace of releases has almost become a job. While we weren't happy with the dearth of releases in 5th, in typical GW fashion they swung the pendulum too far the other way and just went bonkers with releases.

However, playing 40k with our 5th edition stuff is still absolutely fun. We just wish it were possible to keep up with the new stuff both time and money wise. When a new edition releases and you want the new stuff, but that's going to cost you $200-$300 at least, it's just not worth it anymore.