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They CAN shoot+run after deep striking, so it's not hard to get them behind BLOS terrain.

Hard to get all 6 of them behind los blocking terrain.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Hard to get all 6 of them behind los blocking terrain.

It's really not. You don't scatter from deep strike, and since there are only 6 models in your squad, it means you effectively only need to move 2" (two baselengths) to be totally obscured.

Agreed...and you have fleet for the reroll

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Hard to get all 6 of them behind los blocking terrain.

It's really not. You don't scatter from deep strike, and since there are only 6 models in your squad, it means you effectively only need to move 2" (two baselengths) to be totally obscured.

Well ymmv becuase my flgs has nothing but GW terrain, and that has next to none los blocking. Especially for 6 dudes.

That's probably it, then. I don't think I've ever lost the whole squad in over 50 games and never lost a guy after DS. But we use quite a bit of LOS blockers for infantry models around here.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Hawks are excellent, if only because they will infuriate your opponent. Add an extra model and a Sunrifle, and they will do work.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned: they're infantry, so you can get linebreaker with them for an easy 1VP. It's a good use for a squad that gets shot up too much to otherwise contribute to the game.

The only reason i dont use them is because they just die so easy. 6 toughness 3 models with 4+ armor die like uber fast. Hope you can take out 106(+) points of models with there grenades and las guns before they die.

Measuring a units effectiveness based on how many points of your opponents army it kills, is not the end all of how good a model is.

I can't count the number of games where one of my squads of Swooping Hawks have pushed the result in my favour. They may not end up killing much in some games (usually against marines), but they always have an impact, and have a surgical utility that no unit can match. Name another unit that can reliably deepstrike to contest an objective EVERY GAME, on turn 5.

Ohh, and I got mine into combat with an Imperial Knight during a recent tournament. They killed that thing good.

I just got 10 off e-bay, used them once vs tau, love them. Probably wouldn't take them vs space marines though.

Belly wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Hawks are excellent, if only because they will infuriate your opponent. Add an extra model and a Sunrifle, and they will do work.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned: they're infantry, so you can get linebreaker with them for an easy 1VP. It's a good use for a squad that gets shot up too much to otherwise contribute to the game.

The only reason i dont use them is because they just die so easy. 6 toughness 3 models with 4+ armor die like uber fast. Hope you can take out 106(+) points of models with there grenades and las guns before they die.

I can't count the number of games where one of my squads of Swooping Hawks have pushed the result in my favour. They may not end up killing much in some games (usually against marines), but they always have an impact, and have a surgical utility that no unit can match. Name another unit that can reliably deepstrike to contest an objective EVERY GAME, on turn 5. Jet bikes are better at this role, as flat out after reserving is just as good as no scatter deep strike (imo)

Ohh, and I got mine into combat with an Imperial Knight during a recent tournament. They killed that thing good. 6 of them did? Better than average rolling. Say somehow all 6 survive. Rolling to hit they hit half times. So 3 hits. 3 hul points. That should be a half dead IK.

My thoughts

Edit: oops

They can mess up a non-walker if the opponent lets you, which is actually an amazing threat. But they aren't reliable anti tank.

(I love me my Hawks!)

They dont hit on 3+ vs a walker (unless I missed another Swooping hawk special rule) with a ws of 4

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Hard to get all 6 of them behind los blocking terrain.

It's really not. You don't scatter from deep strike, and since there are only 6 models in your squad, it means you effectively only need to move 2" (two baselengths) to be totally obscured.

Well ymmv becuase my flgs has nothing but GW terrain, and that has next to none los blocking. Especially for 6 dudes.

If you dont use adequate terrain your tactics and experience will be drastically different than most peoples. Units are far superior when terrain is on the field.

I highly suggest you and your friends spend a few weekends making decent terrain. Once you have done that set up a decent map where you cant rip everyone to shreds from turn pone then see how well Swooping hawks do.

They will do a hell of a lot more than you give them credit for.

We just had a terrain building weekend, but you know what the supplies they got for making new terrain? More GW terrain.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
We just had a terrain building weekend, but you know what the supplies they got for making new terrain? More GW terrain.

I feel for ya dude.

GW doesnt make hobbying easy.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
We just had a terrain building weekend, but you know what the supplies they got for making new terrain? More GW terrain.

I feel for ya dude.

GW doesnt make hobbying easy.

Sad part is its not even a gw store

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

Belly wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Hawks are excellent, if only because they will infuriate your opponent. Add an extra model and a Sunrifle, and they will do work.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned: they're infantry, so you can get linebreaker with them for an easy 1VP. It's a good use for a squad that gets shot up too much to otherwise contribute to the game.

The only reason i dont use them is because they just die so easy. 6 toughness 3 models with 4+ armor die like uber fast. Hope you can take out 106(+) points of models with there grenades and las guns before they die.

I can't count the number of games where one of my squads of Swooping Hawks have pushed the result in my favour. They may not end up killing much in some games (usually against marines), but they always have an impact, and have a surgical utility that no unit can match. Name another unit that can reliably deepstrike to contest an objective EVERY GAME, on turn 5. Jet bikes are better at this role, as flat out after reserving is just as good as no scatter deep strike (imo)

Ohh, and I got mine into combat with an Imperial Knight during a recent tournament. They killed that thing good. 6 of them did? Better than average rolling. Say somehow all 6 survive. Rolling to hit they hit half times. So 3 hits. 3 hul points. That should be a half dead IK.

My thoughts

Jetbikes do serve a similiar role. Obvious merits to taking one, the other, or both. Espcially considering the potential rumours for 7th, where all infantry is scoring. This makes them even better, and potentially better at this job than jetbikes.

Against the knight, I had prescience cast on them. I threw a grenade on the way in, hit 5 times in combat, and actually had the knight doomed to do a total of 5 HP's.

I've charged a Knight with them before, but sadly I had some insanely awful luck with my guys. They have, however, killed a Librarian Dreadnought in assault, which was just way too funny.

I don't measure straight points killed to see how effective a unit is. Sometimes I'll bring along something that isn't going to kill its points worth just because I know it will distract my opponent and allow the rest of my army to work better.

Indeed, if that was our only measure, Venomthropes would be worthless.

I have caused maybe 60 points of damage with my Venomthropes in the past 2 years...and still consider them the best thing in the bug book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for Eldar, I have cheap niche units (Spears, Hawks, Reapers, NightSpinner) and Hearty don't die units in my army.

the niche units are usually there to deliver a blow for 1-2 rounds...and are always n reserve for me.

I tend to use my Farseer to boost my own squads a lot. Makes it hard to determine he got his points back. And then there's transports... though a Wave Serpent's offensive capabilities are nothing to sneeze at.

Only reason I measure them with whether or not there worth it based on points killed is because they dont support other units (farseer, venom thropes, etc...) they dont distract the enemy (As they are either in los and easily killed, or out of los) or are taken for another unit (dire avengers).

I took them to kill they two armies that I am vulnerable to...Necrons and Tau...and they do that well...for cheap.

Do realize that blind has no effect on battle suits

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Do realize that blind has no effect on battle suits

Of course, but anyone aiming Hawks at them is doing it wrong. AP4 Ignores Cover Large Blast is dedicated to FIre Warriors

I dont face many tau with fire warriors. Out flanking kroot or just battle suits

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
I dont face many tau with fire warriors. Out flanking kroot or just battle suits

Interesting, well it should be good for kroot as well, (I'm assuming you've killed all/most pathfinders by the time they come in)

 ductvader wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
I dont face many tau with fire warriors. Out flanking kroot or just battle suits

Interesting, well it should be good for kroot as well, (I'm assuming you've killed all/most pathfinders by the time they come in)

Pathfinders, what pathfinders? Drones and commander with controller is all Ive got to face

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
I dont face many tau with fire warriors. Out flanking kroot or just battle suits

Interesting, well it should be good for kroot as well, (I'm assuming you've killed all/most pathfinders by the time they come in)

Pathfinders, what pathfinders? Drones and commander with controller is all Ive got to face

Sounds like you should be doing fine.

Ya, its different then most tau lists I think. Still good though, 3 squads of deep striking melta squads, 3 squads of missile suits, 2 hammer heads, and rip tide.