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Hello

I just started collecting a couple weeks ago and just recently purchased the citadel paint starter kit with the selection of paint, a brush, and a few other things. I have never picked up a paintbrush before and this certainly was very time consuming for me to accomplish with sating my OCD demands. I finished my first couple units, my avengers and 6 jetbikes. Im not entirely happy with the results so I am here with a couple questions,

My paint goes on somewhat streaky. I found by trying to accomplish covering an area in single strokes in succession without overlapping gave the best results but some places just seemed like that was impossible. If you take a look at my exarch you will especially notice un-even layers, it was the first unit I painted. Is my paint too think (its is shelf new)? Is it okay to add water to the pot? Its seems to be fluid, though it was separated when I first unsealed it and took a look. Shook it up real good before using though. I am using spray primer (white).

The brush provided seems to split apart after every few strokes, causing me to go to my water cup almost as much as my actual painting. This seemed extremely frustrating to me. What I started doing was try to keep it damp but not wet, giving it a couple of water strokes on an old shirt before loading it with paint. More recently while painting my bikes I started using saliva by licking it and using my lips (eww gross right) to manage the brush after the water cup of course. This seemed to make it last quite longer for painting but I dont want to make this a habit. So my question, is the brush bad? Am I missing something? Should I already be investing in a 3rd party and possibly expensive brush?

Here is examples of my work so far. Im a fledgling painter but I try to take pride in my work and take my time, I hope it shows, don't be too hard on me! I plan to add a little more detail once I add a few more colors to my collection but I do like to keep it simple and clean.

Edit: My pictures are upsidedown...but not on my computer...interesting.
Edit2: Click em for right side up I guess...

Pics are up side down.

 Sammoth wrote:
Pics are up side down.

Haha yes, yes they are. Strange though is viewing the files on my computer they are not upside down. I don't understand how that happened by merely uploading/attaching them to a post.

They are only supplemental though and it still showcases the streakyness im running into.

EDIT!!! When you click them they are right side up...Just what is going on?!?!

To answer your questions

Your paint is streaky because
a) you're new, so very likely using your paint straight from the pot. Consider this being hit over the nose with a rolled up newspaper. No. Bad newbie.

One should always thin ones paint, water is fine, although there are a variety of additives you might want to look at with time, "skimmed milk" is often touted as the consistency to look for, but honestly what is right varies with the paint and the job you're doing. This generally works out as 2:1 paint water mix, but it varies because various shades of paint vary in their base thickness.

With thinner paint, you may need 2, 3 or even more coats to get a finish you're happy with, but will give a much better finish in the long run.

b) you're painting white, alongside yellow, one of the trickiest colours to get even. Thinning and multiple thin coats will help, but there's no real shortcut, it's a tough colour to get right.

Hope that helps!

EDIT

As for the brush, if it's the starter brush from the starter set, then it's gak quality. You do not need to spend a fortune on top of the line brushes (yet!) but buying better quality will help immensely. Rosemary and Co are a good middle of the road brand with good quality, but any good quality sable brushes will do well.

You will be hard pressed to find anyone to recommend Citadel brushes over anything else without some fairly unusual selection criteria

Nearly everyone uses their lips to reshape their brushes, acrylic paint is non toxic, so as long as you keep your water fresh, there's not a lot to worry about.

A few quick tips (and bear in mind I am no expert):

I would pick up a paint palette to thin your paints. Put some paint in and add some thinner until you reach the right consistency. Remember that multiple layers of thin coats achieves better results than a few thick ones. If you are on a budget, water will do just fine or you can buy a product to help thin them. Just remember to thin a little and test. You can always add more thinner, but can't take it away. :-)

As far as the models, I would recommend getting a wash. There are many products you can use for this effect. That will help add some shading to the model. With them being white, I would say to avoid dark washes such as black. If you use them, you will be doing a lot of cleanup to maintain crisp white armor.

Other than that, stick with it!

dasbeiler wrote:
Hello

Welcome to Dakka!

My paint goes on somewhat streaky. I found by trying to accomplish covering an area in single strokes in succession without overlapping gave the best results but some places just seemed like that was impossible. If you take a look at my exarch you will especially notice un-even layers, it was the first unit I painted. Is my paint too think (its is shelf new)? Is it okay to add water to the pot? Its seems to be fluid, though it was separated when I first unsealed it and took a look. Shook it up real good before using though. I am using spray primer (white).

Rule number one is never try to paint an area in one stroke. Multiple thin coats will always give you a better finish than trying to get it all in on thick layer. You are correct in giving your paint a good shake; all paint tends to settle and some times you'll about kill yourself shaking paint that has been sitting around for a while. Here is a good article highlighting some good tips on getting the most out of your paints: http://fromthewarp.blogspot.com/2012/04/7-quick-tips-and-tricks-for-best-paint.html

The brush provided seems to split apart after every few strokes, causing me to go to my water cup almost as much as my actual painting. This seemed extremely frustrating to me. What I started doing was try to keep it damp but not wet, giving it a couple of water strokes on an old shirt before loading it with paint. More recently while painting my bikes I started using saliva by licking it and using my lips (eww gross right) to manage the brush after the water cup of course. This seemed to make it last quite longer for painting but I dont want to make this a habit. So my question, is the brush bad? Am I missing something? Should I already be investing in a 3rd party and possibly expensive brush?

Yes, buy a new brush. The Citadel ones are not the best out there, not even by a long shot. What you want is a kolinsky sable-hair brush, which is regarded as some of the finest material to make a brush with. Sable hair brushes hold a point extremely well, combined with their strength and resilience, make them perfect for detail work. High quality brushes tend to be expensive but it is money well spent. In fact, brushes are the one spot were it is okay to not save money; price is directly correlated with quality in this case. Popular brands are Winsor & Newton Series 7 and Raphael Series 8404 (which are my personal favorite). Be warned, these brushes are hard to come by due to issues with the importation of the fur that they are made from. You can also find other, cheaper quality brush if you look around on the internet. Just search for "red sable brushes" and see what you can find. I would look into getting a size 0 or size 1 and also pick up some Masters Brush Cleaner & Preserver to clean them with. This is a must because if you invest in a couple of nice brushes you need to make them last.

Also, licking your paintbrush is a time-honored tradition. Most painters do it, myself included.

Here is examples of my work so far. Im a fledgling painter but I try to take pride in my work and take my time, I hope it shows, don't be too hard on me! I plan to add a little more detail once I add a few more colors to my collection but I do like to keep it simple and clean.

You're off to a good start! One thing that people love to recommend is give the model a wash. It's everybody's favorite bit of advice, and though a bit cliched, it is usually a good idea. Your models could benefit from using one so it is something you should look in to. If you plan on buying them from GW, they are called "shades" but most other paint brand label them as "washes." They are essentially thinned down paint designed to pool slightly in the recesses of a model and give the model some depth. They are easy to use and give good results in a hurry. In fact, the old GW wash Devlan Mud got the nickname "liquid talent" for its ability to transform a model. Give this article a read for some more information on what they are and how they can help: http://fromthewarp.blogspot.com/2010/03/difference-wash-can-make.html

 azreal13 wrote:
To answer your questions

Your paint is streaky because
a) you're new, so very likely using your paint straight from the pot. Consider this being hit over the nose with a rolled up newspaper. No. Bad newbie.

One should always thin ones paint, water is fine, although there are a variety of additives you might want to look at with time, "skimmed milk" is often touted as the consistency to look for, but honestly what is right varies with the paint and the job you're doing. This generally works out as 2:1 paint water mix, but it varies because various shades of paint vary in their base thickness.

With thinner paint, you may need 2, 3 or even more coats to get a finish you're happy with, but will give a much better finish in the long run.

b) you're painting white, alongside yellow, one of the trickiest colours to get even. Thinning and multiple thin coats will help, but there's no real shortcut, it's a tough colour to get right.

Hope that helps!

EDIT

As for the brush, if it's the starter brush from the starter set, then it's gak quality. You do not need to spend a fortune on top of the line brushes (yet!) but buying better quality will help immensely. Rosemary and Co are a good middle of the road brand with good quality, but any good quality sable brushes will do well.

You will be hard pressed to find anyone to recommend Citadel brushes over anything else without some fairly unusual selection criteria

Nearly everyone uses their lips to reshape their brushes, acrylic paint is non toxic, so as long as you keep your water fresh, there's not a lot to worry about.

Called out! Yup I was using straight from the pot.

Good to know about thinning the paint, I will have to do some experimenting!

I knew something was up with the brush, im a patient person but that brush tested me!

Thanks for the tips!

 Havok210 wrote:
A few quick tips (and bear in mind I am no expert):

I would pick up a paint palette to thin your paints. Put some paint in and add some thinner until you reach the right consistency. Remember that multiple layers of thin coats achieves better results than a few thick ones. If you are on a budget, water will do just fine or you can buy a product to help thin them. Just remember to thin a little and test. You can always add more thinner, but can't take it away. :-)

As far as the models, I would recommend getting a wash. There are many products you can use for this effect. That will help add some shading to the model. With them being white, I would say to avoid dark washes such as black. If you use them, you will be doing a lot of cleanup to maintain crisp white armor.

Other than that, stick with it!

Like a Bob "Pretty Tree" Ross wooden palette? I feel like if I got one of those I would no longer be a fledgling painter haha. Ill check into it

I was looking at the wash's and was not sure of their application! I definitely need more shading and definition in the armor and was wondering how to do this, will pick some up next time im at my FLGS!

Thanks!

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

dasbeiler wrote:
Hello

Welcome to Dakka!

My paint goes on somewhat streaky. I found by trying to accomplish covering an area in single strokes in succession without overlapping gave the best results but some places just seemed like that was impossible. If you take a look at my exarch you will especially notice un-even layers, it was the first unit I painted. Is my paint too think (its is shelf new)? Is it okay to add water to the pot? Its seems to be fluid, though it was separated when I first unsealed it and took a look. Shook it up real good before using though. I am using spray primer (white).

Rule number one is never try to paint an area in one stroke. Multiple thin coats will always give you a better finish than trying to get it all in on thick layer. You are correct in giving your paint a good shake; all paint tends to settle and some times you'll about kill yourself shaking paint that has been sitting around for a while. Here is a good article highlighting some good tips on getting the most out of your paints: http://fromthewarp.blogspot.com/2012/04/7-quick-tips-and-tricks-for-best-paint.html

The brush provided seems to split apart after every few strokes, causing me to go to my water cup almost as much as my actual painting. This seemed extremely frustrating to me. What I started doing was try to keep it damp but not wet, giving it a couple of water strokes on an old shirt before loading it with paint. More recently while painting my bikes I started using saliva by licking it and using my lips (eww gross right) to manage the brush after the water cup of course. This seemed to make it last quite longer for painting but I dont want to make this a habit. So my question, is the brush bad? Am I missing something? Should I already be investing in a 3rd party and possibly expensive brush?

Yes, buy a new brush. The Citadel ones are not the best out there, not even by a long shot. What you want is a kolinsky sable-hair brush, which is regarded as some of the finest material to make a brush with. Sable hair brushes hold a point extremely well, combined with their strength and resilience, make them perfect for detail work. High quality brushes tend to be expensive but it is money well spent. In fact, brushes are the one spot were it is okay to not save money; price is directly correlated with quality in this case. Popular brands are Winsor & Newton Series 7 and Raphael Series 8404 (which are my personal favorite). Be warned, these brushes are hard to come by due to issues with the importation of the fur that they are made from. You can also find other, cheaper quality brush if you look around on the internet. Just search for "red sable brushes" and see what you can find. I would look into getting a size 0 or size 1 and also pick up some Masters Brush Cleaner & Preserver to clean them with. This is a must because if you invest in a couple of nice brushes you need to make them last.

Also, licking your paintbrush is a time-honored tradition. Most painters do it, myself included.

Here is examples of my work so far. Im a fledgling painter but I try to take pride in my work and take my time, I hope it shows, don't be too hard on me! I plan to add a little more detail once I add a few more colors to my collection but I do like to keep it simple and clean.

You're off to a good start! One thing that people love to recommend is give the model a wash. It's everybody's favorite bit of advice, and though a bit cliched, it is usually a good idea. Your models could benefit from using one so it is something you should look in to. If you plan on buying them from GW, they are called "shades" but most other paint brand label them as "washes." They are essentially thinned down paint designed to pool slightly in the recesses of a model and give the model some depth. They are easy to use and give good results in a hurry. In fact, the old GW wash Devlan Mud got the nickname "liquid talent" for its ability to transform a model. Give this article a read for some more information on what they are and how they can help: http://fromthewarp.blogspot.com/2010/03/difference-wash-can-make.html

Wow thanks for the super informative reply!

I am really glad to hear that licking the brush is regular. I remember thinking "This isnt normal, who does this", and most people actually do it. . Thanks for the brush maintenance tips, ill have to order me some brush cleaner, and a kolinsky sable brush!

I am definitely going to pick up some washes next time im out. Im suprised the kit does not include any. At least not that I can remember seeing.

Off to check your links!

I think you've gotten all of the information you need already, I just want to add my two cents. It sounds like you're dipping the brush right into the paint pot so your paint is too thick. You should consider putting a bit of the paint you want on a palette and mixing with water. I used aluminium foil because it can bend to keep paint separate, doesn't need clean up, and is cheap so you don't feel bad when you switch to a wet palette later, which is what I use now. The Skim Milk consistency really is the phrase you'll hear over and over until you finally thin your paints well enough for people online to stop mentioning it. You might also consider going online or to a hobby store and looking for flow improver to thin your paint, as well as drying retarders or matte mediums, but that stuff can wait until you are happy with your current skills and want to go on to the next step.

Most people online will tell you that a good expensive brush will cost less than a cheap one if you take care of it and they're right, but in my experience I went through a couple cheap brushes before I figured out how to take care of them or even how they fully worked. One thing I enjoyed when I started was different brush sizes to get the smaller details.

The jetbikes look good, the gems are nice. Just gotta thin your paint and keep practicing. And post some pics when they're updated!

As others have said thin your paints. Don't add water to the pot though as if you add to much you risk wrecking the whole batch, either thin them using a ceramic plate as a pallete, a piece of tile, buy a proper pallete or even make or buy your own wet pallete.

I made my own pallete as follows.

Use a container with a sealable lid. I used a plastic box that tesco wet wipes came in. Chinese good containers work too.

Layer several layers of kitchen roll at the bottom and wet them. Add a piece of baking paper cut to size ontop. Done

Tydil wrote:
I think you've gotten all of the information you need already, I just want to add my two cents. It sounds like you're dipping the brush right into the paint pot so your paint is too thick. You should consider putting a bit of the paint you want on a palette and mixing with water. I used aluminium foil because it can bend to keep paint separate, doesn't need clean up, and is cheap so you don't feel bad when you switch to a wet palette later, which is what I use now. The Skim Milk consistency really is the phrase you'll hear over and over until you finally thin your paints well enough for people online to stop mentioning it. You might also consider going online or to a hobby store and looking for flow improver to thin your paint, as well as drying retarders or matte mediums, but that stuff can wait until you are happy with your current skills and want to go on to the next step.

Most people online will tell you that a good expensive brush will cost less than a cheap one if you take care of it and they're right, but in my experience I went through a couple cheap brushes before I figured out how to take care of them or even how they fully worked. One thing I enjoyed when I started was different brush sizes to get the smaller details.

The jetbikes look good, the gems are nice. Just gotta thin your paint and keep practicing. And post some pics when they're updated!

What a great idea with the foil. Im going to have to do that!

Thanks for the kind words. Im glad I saved my bikes until after the avengers got the broadside of my initial learning . I will give the avengers a go over with my newfound knowledge and tips and see what I can fix, and apply a wash or shade. Striking scorpions are up next and they look daunting (that detail)

I think I agree that buying a mid range brush is probably best at first, you will feth up your first few brushes probably. I find the army painter ones to be decent, a regiment brush and a character brush would probably see you good for a while as long as you clean them and keep them pointed well. In trying to do small detail when I started (still pretty new) I bought lots of really fine detail small brushes but found they hold so little paint that a slightly larger brush with a decent point works a lot better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Keep going with your models. You will get better with every one. If you get good enough later on and want to re do your models you can strip the paint and start from scratch,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to add some people use old cd's as pallets too

Thanks for the help everyone. What a great community here, I am definitely going to check in often. Hell maybe I can be the one offering tips one day

Understanding that I managed to do just about everything wrong (best way to learn right) im wanting to strip my avengers and dress them up a little better. What are your preferred methods for stripping the paint or preferred products?

Edit: I think I found myself the answer in the FAQ. Do you all have any alternate methods in addition?

My advice is to wait, paint other models in your collection first especially smaller infantry. It will give you a great sense of accomplishment seeing them side by side looking at how far you have come before drowning them in dettol and reprinting them.

Don't be so hard on yourself you made the same mistakes almost all of us made when we started painting. He'll I still paint on to thick sometimes because I get lazy and don't want to have to do three or four costs,

For a self declared noob, that is some nice painting - thin your paints and stick with it, you're doing great.

I got myself the Nuln Oil wash and tried it out on my first model and there has got to be something im missing.

I washed the overall areas of the white then started going up and throwing white over the raised areas and ugh, Im not sure about it. So before I continue on the model I would like to show you guys what im seeing.

EDIT: CLICK IMAGE FOR RIGHT-SIDE-UP!!!

Nuln oil wash is very dark, so you'll need much patience and many layers to bring the white back up to the crisp, pre-wash levels.

One thing to consider would be to thin the nuln oil wash a bit - I just do this with water, maybe 1:1, so that it doesn't go on quite as dark.

But to our other brave readers: what color wash would you recommend for white figures? Would you dilute it?

dasbeiler wrote:
I got myself the Nuln Oil wash and tried it out on my first model and there has got to be something im missing.

I washed the overall areas of the white then started going up and throwing white over the raised areas and ugh, Im not sure about it. So before I continue on the model I would like to show you guys what im seeing.

Go back over everything you covered in the wash with your base color leaving the wash only in the recesses of the model.

pancakeonions wrote:
But to our other brave readers: what color wash would you recommend for white figures? Would you dilute it?

It depends on whether you are aiming for a warm or cool white.

For a warm white, start with a brown-beige basecolor with a light brown or sepia wash and highlight up with pure white being only the brightest highlight.

For a cool white, start with a blue-grey basecolor with a blue wash and highlight up to pure white.

In all reality, if you were to paint white like that the use of a wash probably wouldn't be necessary as you can use your basecolors and highlights to add depth to the model. There is another thread about painting white space marine shoulder pads floating near the top and I posted a couple videos on how to paint warm and cool white if you are interested.

I don't think I have ever put a wash over white before so no really sure. Maybe trying a blue wash instead of a black one. A blue wash should help give it a cold white look. You would have to go back over the more raised parts with white again though.

Not sure if these will help but I'll share these anyway

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/425555.page

http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/how-paint-eldar-dire-avengers-pt1

http://taleofpainters.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/tutorial-how-to-paint-eldar-of-saim.html

pancakeonions wrote:
Nuln oil wash is very dark, so you'll need much patience and many layers to bring the white back up to the crisp, pre-wash levels.

One thing to consider would be to thin the nuln oil wash a bit - I just do this with water, maybe 1:1, so that it doesn't go on quite as dark.

But to our other brave readers: what color wash would you recommend for white figures? Would you dilute it?

I'm guessing that the desired look is a bright crisp white. I would suggest a wash made from super watery grey. That, or be very slow and careful to get the nuln oil in just the recesses of the model. Either one should make for better results, but the grey wash adds a bit of shading in my opinion. Then you can go about getting the brightness back that you lost elsewhere.

That was a nightmare! Way beyond my ability to fix up. Im going to chalk it up to a learning experience and move on. Definitely more defined and I like the big picture result (the far away one ) but I lost a lot of crispness on the edges. Not terrible but definitely a learning experience


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok I agree nulin oil is way to dark, but its the only option in the GW line. I might try the blue for that "cool white" effect. Ill also check out the other brands next time im in the FLGS.

Im stuck with a base of pure white for now, but understand now with going in with a more neutral base color and having the pure white highlights after washing. Makes a lot of sense now and will apply it to future units.

If I try thinning the nulin oil (because its what I got now), in addition to water should I maybe add (very carefully) some white paint in the mix to? Drop by drop maybe just to grey it out a little.