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Simple really, are 4 flamers a good choice for havocs? I would probably run Mark of Nurgle with them, maybe even get 5 extra havocs for a shooty shooty havoc blob of fun. If not flamers then I was thinking Autocannons/Missile launchers. What do you think?

Autocannons is the best option for Havocs, they are the most cost-effective and can engage a variety of targets.

I'm under the impression that autocannons are the best option for Havocs. Vs my army, it'd be Missile Launchers because dumping 4 frags from 48" hurts..

Now, if you use Ahriman or Huron to get Master of Deception, there are a lot of armies who would hate an infiltrating Rhino with 4 flamers. I would put a melta bomb on the sergeant just in case they survive and you can charge the odd tank or something. I've normally used 4 Plasma Gun havocs. Riptides hate it, especially if you get first turn and Infiltrate.

Autocannons aren't the strongest option for havocs. Neither, of course, are flamers.

I guess I'm a bit curious as to why you'd run a squad like this in the first place. It's only good against light infantry a super close ranges, but so is that giant pile of bolters and/or chainswords that you're already bringing. Why waste an HS slot on doing something that your troops choices are already handling?

I mean, if we were talking about a melta or plasma havoc squad, that might be a different story, but flamers?

 Ailaros wrote:
Autocannons aren't the strongest option for havocs. Neither, of course, are flamers.

I guess I'm a bit curious as to why you'd run a squad like this in the first place. It's only good against light infantry a super close ranges, but so is that giant pile of bolters and/or chainswords that you're already bringing. Why waste an HS slot on doing something that your troops choices are already handling?

I mean, if we were talking about a melta or plasma havoc squad, that might be a different story, but flamers?

To be honest, I had a bit of a silly army in mind, with things like huge groups of slaaneshi cultists, and I was just wondering whether or not 4 flamer havocs would be any good on the board.

Well, if you're going to use them anyways, then I think they might be best used as a charge deterrent. Put them in front and have them be your army's speedbump as it advances up the board. The entire point is to run forwards, and to scare your opponent with their overwatch capability, and/or to get your opponent to charge them so that you can then countercharge with another unit.

Otherwise, I guess I could see them in a mech list. Everything charges forwards, and your opponent either has to shoot at the 4x flamer unit making a B-line for his objective, or shoot at the rhinos carrying the actually useful units, or at the maulerfiends/preds that are the bigger targets.

In this case, though, I think I'd use chosen with flamers instead of havocs. You have to spend a lot more, but you also don't waste an HS slot.

Why not just take Chosen with flamers? You get more specials, they fight better in cc (which is more likely with flamers), and they keep your HS slots open for dakka units rather than a quasi-assault-cqc unit. Take BL supplement and they are troops.

Havocs with special weapons like flamers or melta can work fine if you're running something like a khorne list where everyone is moving forward to assault. It's just more cheap chaos boots on the ground. Stick them in a rhino with a champ with a combiflamer then roast guys.

The problem is that CSM cost the same, and are scoring. They make a better giant pile of guys moving forward.

Plus, special weapons are defensive weapons, which are somewhat less useful in, say, a khorne list where everything is trying to close in on purpose. A khorne list will probably do better with lascannon havocs to do some damage in the first couple of turns where the rest of the army won't.

Flamer havocs would be good for a gunline where you have a few small units to punish your opponent for getting close.

But... chaos... gunline?

Flamers would be better served in a squad of Chosen. Chosen at short range, Havocs ats long.

 Ailaros wrote:


But... chaos... gunline?

Iron Warriors or similar.

Firstly, the CSM codex makes pretty crappy gunlines.

Secondly, Iron Warriors are masters of assaulting fortresses. It's at least as fluffy for them to storm the ramparts as it is to sit on their butts and lob artillery.

.. maybe with a promethium pipeline...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
.. Just learnt that promethium is a real element!

 Ailaros wrote:
Firstly, the CSM codex makes pretty crappy gunlines.

I guess here's where we'll just have to agree to disagree

What other than the three heavy support choices (not including vindicators, special weapon havocs, maulerfiends, or land raiders) does the CSM codex have that makes a good gunline?

Half of one FOC slot can gunline. That sounds like a pretty bad gunline army to me.

 Ailaros wrote:
What other than the three heavy support choices (not including vindicators, special weapon havocs, maulerfiends, or land raiders) does the CSM codex have that makes a good gunline?

Half of one FOC slot can gunline. That sounds like a pretty bad gunline army to me.

Yeah apart from this, the overwhelming majority of Chaos shooting takes place under 24 inches and Chaos generally has most of it's best offence take place at charge range.

If you try and get into an over the map shoot out with the Tau or Guard you're going to get creamed and at anything more than rapid fire range you'd probably not want to get into a dakka contest with the Eldar or Necrons either.

 jackflashultra wrote:
Flamers would be better served in a squad of Chosen. Chosen at short range, Havocs ats long.

for flamers I really like the chosen over havocs. +1 flamer +2 attacks and +1 Ld and doesnt take a HS slot. 5ppm more

 Ailaros wrote:
What other than the three heavy support choices (not including vindicators, special weapon havocs, maulerfiends, or land raiders) does the CSM codex have that makes a good gunline?

Half of one FOC slot can gunline. That sounds like a pretty bad gunline army to me.

Not the greatest gunline, but adding 5 man squads of noise marines with blastmasters gives you a lot of options.
I used to run them in rhino's with havocs backed up by defilers (before the huge point increase) with good success.