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Hits are not allocated either. So as written D weapons don't function.

rigeld2 wrote:
Hits are not allocated either. So as written D weapons don't function.

Which is true, which is why the D rules are sketchy at best. However, hits are allocated in squadron rules, which sets a decent precedent to follow for D weapons.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
So the D weapon can not harm any models with it because you skip populating the wound pool, and as such you can not allocate any wounds...

Or it works by populating the wound pool by using the chart instead of rolling To Wound.

Your way makes D weapons not function and can not be the correct way read that rule.

No.
Your method is a literal houserule to make the D weapon work.
My method is a literal houserule to make the D weapon work.

It doesn't work as written. My method keeps closest to the D weapon rule of wounding models. Your method requires us to literally ignore the word models on the D weapon chart.

My method does not require literally ignoring the word models on the D weapon chart. Units are made up of models, so if you wound a unit you are wounding a collection of models.

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
So the D weapon can not harm any models with it because you skip populating the wound pool, and as such you can not allocate any wounds...

Or it works by populating the wound pool by using the chart instead of rolling To Wound.

Your way makes D weapons not function and can not be the correct way read that rule.

No.
Your method is a literal houserule to make the D weapon work.
My method is a literal houserule to make the D weapon work.

It doesn't work as written. My method keeps closest to the D weapon rule of wounding models. Your method requires us to literally ignore the word models on the D weapon chart.

My method does not require literally ignoring the word models on the D weapon chart. Units are made up of models, so if you wound a unit you are wounding a collection of models.

Please cite the words "collection of models" in the D weapon rule.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
My method does not require literally ignoring the word models on the D weapon chart. Units are made up of models, so if you wound a unit you are wounding a collection of models.

Please cite the words "collection of models" in the D weapon rule.

You are looking in the wrong place if you think the rules for units are in the D weapon rule...

Your army is also just a collection of models. Your stretching way to far now.

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
My method does not require literally ignoring the word models on the D weapon chart. Units are made up of models, so if you wound a unit you are wounding a collection of models.

Please cite the words "collection of models" in the D weapon rule.

You are looking in the wrong place if you think the rules for units are in the D weapon rule...

I'm confused now - the D weapon rules never refer to units, nor a collection of models, but you're insisting that wounding a model is the same as wounding a unit?

Could you clarify everything for me?

Fragile wrote:
Your army is also just a collection of models. Your stretching way to far now.

Except there is a actual rules quote that I posted telling us that a unit is is a collection of models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
My method does not require literally ignoring the word models on the D weapon chart. Units are made up of models, so if you wound a unit you are wounding a collection of models.

Please cite the words "collection of models" in the D weapon rule.

You are looking in the wrong place if you think the rules for units are in the D weapon rule...

I'm confused now - the D weapon rules never refer to units, nor a collection of models, but you're insisting that wounding a model is the same as wounding a unit?

Could you clarify everything for me?

I have, in a previous post on the last page.

No, you haven't.
You've asserted that any rule that wounds a model must use the wound allocation and wound pool rules, despite the fact that this breaks Perils, Gets Hot, etc.

Yes, a unit is a collection of models. That statement has no relevancy.

Cite allowance to populate the wound pool when only a model is caused wounds, not the unit.

Okay. Lets look at the most recent update to S D weapons. Escalation & Stronghold Assault

"DESTROYER WEAPONS
Also known as Titan-killers, a Destroyer weapon delivers an immense amount of
damage to any target that it hits. Only a Destroyer weapon is capable of taking out a
Super-heavy vehicle or Gargantuan Creature with a single shot.
If a weapon has a D instead of a Strength value in its profile, it means it is a Destroyer
weapon. To resolve a Destroyer weapon’s attack, roll To Hit as you would for a standard
attack. If the attack hits, roll on the table below instead of rolling To Wound or for
armour penetration. No saving throws of any kind are allowed against damage from a
Destroyer weapon, including special rolls such as Feel No Pain or Necron Reanimation
Protocols.

DESTROYER WEAPON ATTACK TABLE
D6 - 1
Vehicle or Building - Clipped: The target suffers a penetrating hit.
Non-vehicle - Lucky Escape: The model is unharmed.
D6 - 2-5
Vehicle or Building - Solid Hit: A Super-heavy vehicle loses D3+1 Hull Points. Other
vehicles suffer an Explodes! result from the Vehicle Damage table. Buildings suffer a
Detonation! result from the Building Damage table.
Non-vehicle - Seriously Wounded: The model loses D3+1 Wounds.
D6 - 6
Vehicle or Building - Devastating Hit: As for Solid Hit, above, except a Super-heavy
vehicle loses D6+6 Hull Points instead.
Non-vehicle - Deathblow: The model loses D6+6 Wounds."
Codex: Escalation, epub edition

Instead of rolling to wound, you roll on the table.

The table specifies that 'The model loses..." on any roll of a 2+.

'The model' is not the unit. 'The model' has zero permission to move wounds to other models. The roll has zero permission to populate a wound pool from these attacks.

You hit one model per successful attack and those models take every wound from the roll.

rigeld2 wrote:

Yes, a unit is a collection of models. That statement has no relevancy.

And this is why you do not understand.

It is 100% relevant.

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Yes, a unit is a collection of models. That statement has no relevancy.

And this is why you do not understand.

It is 100% relevant.

It dosen't even begin to matter.

The rule states 'The model'

The is singular. It means one. It means the model who takes the hit takes the wound. You're not allowed to put them onto other models, because any other model is not the model taking the hit.

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Yes, a unit is a collection of models. That statement has no relevancy.

And this is why you do not understand.

It is 100% relevant.

Where do the D weapon rules reference a unit?

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Yes, a unit is a collection of models. That statement has no relevancy.

And this is why you do not understand.

It is 100% relevant.

Its good to know that a D weapon that does 12 wounds with deathblow can not only kill that unit, but also members of units that were not even near the blast, since your army is made of units which are made of a collection of models.

Again your argument has no basis.

Fragile wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Yes, a unit is a collection of models. That statement has no relevancy.

And this is why you do not understand.

It is 100% relevant.

Its good to know that a D weapon that does 12 wounds with deathblow can not only kill that unit, but also members of units that were not even near the blast, since your army is made of units which are made of a collection of models.

Again your argument has no basis.

It does if you do not ignore the quotes I posted.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Fragile wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Yes, a unit is a collection of models. That statement has no relevancy.

And this is why you do not understand.

It is 100% relevant.

Its good to know that a D weapon that does 12 wounds with deathblow can not only kill that unit, but also members of units that were not even near the blast, since your army is made of units which are made of a collection of models.

Again your argument has no basis.

It does if you do not ignore the quotes I posted.

Except you haven't posted a relevant one. At all. Not clearly anyway. Perhaps you'd like to restate more clearly?

Because I don't see any quotes supporting your assertions that don't ignore how the rules work.

Destroyer weapons never cause wounds.

The model hit loses wounds, which is a characteristic which when reduced to 0 destroys that model.

There is no wound pool, because there is no wounds caused, Those wounds are "a telling amount of damage" caused by a hit.

So no DR, No one is coung to be able to show you where the rules state you allocate d3+1 wounds to a model, because no wounds are caused.

I can show you where it says "The Model loses d3+1 wounds" that is found in Escalation under Destroyer weapon attack table, and is the result of rolling a 2-5 on a d6.

D weapon works fine. Re-read its entry in the imperial knights book. Roll to hit as normal, instead of rolling to wound or armor penetration use the chart below. Simple easy done.

The chart goes on to explain things like ". The MODEL take d3+1 , or escapes , or d6+6.. Sometimes it's just easier to re-read it .

Lungpickle wrote:
D weapon works fine. Re-read its entry in the imperial knights book. Roll to hit as normal, instead of rolling to wound or armor penetration use the chart below. Simple easy done.

The chart goes on to explain things like ". The MODEL take d3+1 , or escapes , or d6+6.. Sometimes it's just easier to re-read it .

Then explain the process for allocating those hits to any non squadron unit.

Fragile wrote:

Lungpickle wrote:
D weapon works fine. Re-read its entry in the imperial knights book. Roll to hit as normal, instead of rolling to wound or armor penetration use the chart below. Simple easy done.

The chart goes on to explain things like ". The MODEL take d3+1 , or escapes , or d6+6.. Sometimes it's just easier to re-read it .

Then explain the process for allocating those hits to any non squadron unit.

For shooting it is simple, The Blasts/Templates tell you the models beneath them are the models hit(mindstrike missiles further confirm this).

I don't believe there are any "direct-fire" destroyer weapons

It is in Close combat that the rules fall apart.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

Fragile wrote:

Lungpickle wrote:
D weapon works fine. Re-read its entry in the imperial knights book. Roll to hit as normal, instead of rolling to wound or armor penetration use the chart below. Simple easy done.

The chart goes on to explain things like ". The MODEL take d3+1 , or escapes , or d6+6.. Sometimes it's just easier to re-read it .

Then explain the process for allocating those hits to any non squadron unit.

For shooting it is simple, The Blasts/Templates tell you the models beneath them are the models hit(mindstrike missiles further confirm this).

I don't believe there are any "direct-fire" destroyer weapons

It is in Close combat that the rules fall apart.

There are two direct fire, the tau heavy railgun, and one of the modes on the giant necron turret.