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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Have you stalked her?

Yes and no.

Mostly no.

In fact, all no.

If you had to ask then you don't know me and my 'unique' sense of humour well enough.

Oh, okay.

It's not the LOTRO has no dwarf women. It's just that the women are so indistinguishable from the men that people think there are no dwarf women

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Have you stalked her?

He stalks everybody.

 LordofHats wrote:
It's not the LOTRO has no dwarf women. It's just that the women are so indistinguishable from the men that people think there are no dwarf women

Dwarven mating must go sort of like this then (spoilered for length & a little NSFW for language):

MarsNZ wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
With the exceptions of factions that are male-only (which to this date consists exclusively of Orks in Warhammer Online, none of the other ones really interested me) I have exclusively female characters.

LOTRO dwarves have no female option.

Galka (the "big guy" race) in Final Fantasy XI are exclusively male within the setting. There's been some Word of God discussion of how reproduction works for them, but I don't remember the details. Mithras, the cat person race in the game, only have female avatars. Mithra males exist within the setting, but are generally kept out of sight (they're few in number, and stay back at the as yet unseen mithra homeland). The only male mithra seen to date was introduced in an expansion several years after the game was released.

Final Fantasy XIV released with race options that were limited to male or female avatars. Roegadyn (both types - the "big guy" race for FFXIV) and Highland Hyur ("humans" - the restriction didn't apply to Midlander Hyur) only had male avatars for players. And both types of Mi'quote (the new cat person race) were limited to female avatars. But unlike the Galka in FFXI, this wasn't a setting restriction, and there was even a female Roegadyn NPC (the political leader of one of the starting cities). However, when the game was rereleased, the gender restrictions were dropped for all races. And there are now plenty of NPCs of both genders for the formerly restricted races.

Eh, I never played the FF MMOs.

 Melissia wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
I knew Melissia hates Space Marines (Which I disagree with, rawr!) but hating men is something I have seen little indication of

Keep in mind, this particular accusation that I hate men comes from a guy whom has been banned in the past from IGMB for stalking multiple women. So I don't really feel any need to respond to that

If any woman ever feels the need to not talk to me then all they have to do is tell me they don't want to talk. Same with if they don't like me and no longer wish to talk. It's fairly simple.

Keep in mind melissia has been banned off multiple forums for getting into fights often by always being aggressive. Also you don't know those situations so you should quit acting like you do know them. That ban was because I had a hatred against a mod that decided to be a God Mod and take power to his head. This was something that bothered the other mod and a bunch of other people (trooper, orren, reds and lupus). I generally also was fairly offensive and made such jokes which I have tried to clamp down on somewhat depending on where I am. If I was so bad nobody would've wanted me back but that didn't happen. I didn't feel the need to argue it because I was so done with that forum after a while that it wasn't worth the time and my mood slowly improved being away from it.

As for stalking the women I 'stalked' normally I'd been talking to for a while and threw out indications that maybe they'd be interested. It was mostly just one in particular but she had a boyfriend and was just way out of my league. She should have told me if she didn't want to talk and didn't like me anymore but she didn't. I talked to her for over a year and it still bothers me since I really enjoyed talking to her and she threw out some hints that she was interested too (or at least originally). As for why I would go to the internet for women when you've moved 5 or more times in your life and you're used to losing everybody in your real life friend circle from those moves you tend not to care anymore about making friends in the real world as much. I'll probably move again and lose all the friends I have now in real life. So generally if I talk to a woman and she's not interested I give her space with some exceptions.

Also melissia keep dreaming. There are nicer girls than you around and you've been hateful and angry wherever I see it. I felt pity on your blogs and so responded to them. You tell me to go screw myself so I decide who needs you. Now nobody responds to any of your blogs. Perhaps you'd know I'm different in one on one conversations than in group conversations but I'd doubt it. So yeah I did actually pity you.

Anyway I'd just rather not talk about melissia. I'm just tired of her always posting something in these gender threads and getting angry about how unfair things are that she's a woman and not a man.

----------

I think i'll give this all a rest. The mods will probably get angry if things continue. So I'm done for now. What happened on that board happened several years ago. I suppose somebody just had to dredge it up.

 Melissia wrote:
Eh, I never played the FF MMOs.

XI was good back in the day. It's still around and doing well enough to keep going, but it's showing its age. And some of the decisions made over the years have affected it badly.

XIV is extremely popular right now, and is doing very well. The 1.0 version of the game was a huge debacle for Square-Enix, though.


The gender restrictions for certain races were made for obvious reasons. The Galka and Roegadyn were both "big guy" races. The females would have been "big gals", obviously, and it appears that Squenix wasn't interested in that. Ergo, no female option. Highlander Hyurs, while human, were given a more rough and tough masculine description than the Midlanders. So they sort of fell into the same territory as the Roegadyn. Mithra and Mi'quote were designed as cute cat girls - with all that entails (including being the designated flirts of their respective games). And their outfits tend to play up the sex appeal angle. Ergo playable ladies only.

If a Western company had made the games, then I suspect that there would have been no gender restrictions. But it wasn't a Western company.

flamingkillamajig wrote:So you're saying drow, night elves, yautja, and orions are all sluts? That's offensive .

Well, yes and no. Yautja and night elves are just pseudo-feral. They don't dress the way they do to provoke, but simply because it's practical, so it may only seem slutty if you apply contemporary western world morals to their appearance.

Drow and orion, on the other hand, pride their appearance and oftentimes showcase their bodies in an effort to either enchant others or simply to parade their physical perfection as a matter of pride.

tl;dr: It just looks the same, but the reasons are worlds apart - and that is an important thing to keep in mind, especially when roleplaying them.

flamingkillamajig wrote:If I remember you play cyber punk which basically has a whole theme on bondage leather. Basically skin tight leather for everybody

Well ... to a certain degree I suppose you're right. I never actually gave the possible reasons much thought (I "simply enjoyed the ride"), but on a hunch I'd say it's an act of rebellion - like dying one's hair in outrageous colours, or getting a mohican. Perhaps also provocation, though more in an act of personal empowerment rather than to appeal to someone else?

TheCustomLime wrote:Pff, Chaos Space Marines? Sisters of Battle? Space Marines? All a bunch of amateurs playing dress up. No, the real army is the Astra Militarum! We don't need no fancy armor, special powers or genetic enhancements. All we need is a bigger gun and we got lots of them.

/salute

Eumerin wrote:The gender restrictions for certain races were made for obvious reasons. The Galka and Roegadyn were both "big guy" races. The females would have been "big gals", obviously, and it appears that Squenix wasn't interested in that. Ergo, no female option. Highlander Hyurs, while human, were given a more rough and tough masculine description than the Midlanders. So they sort of fell into the same territory as the Roegadyn. Mithra and Mi'quote were designed as cute cat girls - with all that entails (including being the designated flirts of their respective games). And their outfits tend to play up the sex appeal angle. Ergo playable ladies only.

Such deliberately sexist things infuriate me just as much as when a game drops restrictions that are an integral part of a culture's background. Male night elf Sentinels still give me the nerdrage, and I don't even play that game anymore. It's sad when sometimes you have games/settings that were set up in a relatively mature way get dumbed down to appeal to a different/widened target demographic, leading to considerable changes in the artistic vision.

Anyways, we all know female dwarves look like this.

 Lynata wrote:

flamingkillamajig wrote:So you're saying drow, night elves, yautja, and orions are all sluts? That's offensive .

Well, yes and no. Yautja and night elves are just pseudo-feral. They don't dress the way they do to provoke, but simply because it's practical, so it may only seem slutty if you apply contemporary western world morals to their appearance.

Drow and orion, on the other hand, pride their appearance and oftentimes showcase their bodies in an effort to either enchant others or simply to parade their physical perfection as a matter of pride.

tl;dr: It just looks the same, but the reasons are worlds apart - and that is an important thing to keep in mind, especially when roleplaying them.

I was actually just thinking, that a lot of the reason warrior females might dress in a manor that some audiences would think provocative is to distract their (potentially male) opponents.If you're gaping at the lady in front of you dressed entirely in a few scanty bits of leather/fabric you're much less likely to notice that lady plunging a sword through your chest. Rather poor sportsmanship but if it helps you come out of a fight against a potentially stronger opponent then you can't complain too much.

 dementedwombat wrote:

 Lynata wrote:

flamingkillamajig wrote:So you're saying drow, night elves, yautja, and orions are all sluts? That's offensive .

Well, yes and no. Yautja and night elves are just pseudo-feral. They don't dress the way they do to provoke, but simply because it's practical, so it may only seem slutty if you apply contemporary western world morals to their appearance.

Drow and orion, on the other hand, pride their appearance and oftentimes showcase their bodies in an effort to either enchant others or simply to parade their physical perfection as a matter of pride.

tl;dr: It just looks the same, but the reasons are worlds apart - and that is an important thing to keep in mind, especially when roleplaying them.

I was actually just thinking, that a lot of the reason warrior females might dress in a manor that some audiences would think provocative is to distract their (potentially male) opponents.If you're gaping at the lady in front of you dressed entirely in a few scanty bits of leather/fabric you're much less likely to notice that lady plunging a sword through your chest. Rather poor sportsmanship but if it helps you come out of a fight against a potentially stronger opponent then you can't complain too much.

You aren't giving people enough credit. A man won't be distracted by a pair of boobs if his life is at risk unless he was really dumb.

Yeah, but that sucks when compared to decent protection in combat. Trained soldiers would just slice 'em up.

 purplefood wrote:
Yeah, but that sucks when compared to decent protection in combat. Trained soldiers would just slice 'em up.

I'd agree with this in general.

But in the world of fiction I'm willing to be more flexible. How a character dresses, no matter how ridiculous, can say a lot about who that character is as a person. If how they are dressed can be justified via their character, I am willing to let it slide as a player from an RP perspective. From a game perspective, eye candy is enjoyable.

That said, games like TERRA where the option is generally in the range of "nice bikini armor' or 'birthday suit' I tend to be a little disappointed. GW2 and SWTOR offers a rather excellent clothing selection for players and should be seen as the gold standard in terms of gaming. Bikini armor is all well and good for me, but the other more modest options should be available.

I potentially disagree. There are many many examples of warrior cultures in Africa/Australia/England that dressed in completely strange and nonsensical ways in order to put the opponent off balance and potentially intimidate them. Heck the old timy English natives apparently went into battle almost naked with hair spiked up and their skin died (most people think blue, but apparently it could have been orange).

 dementedwombat wrote:
I potentially disagree. There are many many examples of warrior cultures in Africa/Australia/England that dressed in completely strange and nonsensical ways in order to put the opponent off balance and potentially intimidate them. Heck the old timy English natives apparently went into battle almost naked with hair spiked up and their skin died (most people think blue, but apparently it could have been orange).

Maybe so but eventually the better trained and dressed warriors won overall.

 purplefood wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
I potentially disagree. There are many many examples of warrior cultures in Africa/Australia/England that dressed in completely strange and nonsensical ways in order to put the opponent off balance and potentially intimidate them. Heck the old timy English natives apparently went into battle almost naked with hair spiked up and their skin died (most people think blue, but apparently it could have been orange).

Maybe so but eventually the better trained and dressed warriors won overall.

I certainly won't disagree with that, but the fact that it has a proven historical precedent means that it is a reasonable inclusion in games (at least of the Fantasy variety, which are at least loosely based on things that happened on earth in the past). This is especially true if the fighters in question come from a gladiatorial background or some other kind of stylized fighting where appearance is important.

I'm not arguing that going into battle with your fancy bits hanging out is a good idea, only that it has been done before and that there is a historical pendent why some people decided to do it.

 dementedwombat wrote:
I potentially disagree. There are many many examples of warrior cultures in Africa/Australia/England that dressed in completely strange and nonsensical ways in order to put the opponent off balance and potentially intimidate them.

This is true. But also remember that they would base their protection on what was available and what they needed. It's not as simple as "I'm gonna dress like a crazy mother fether to scare this guy."

Example; Armor was fairly bullet resistant for some time, hence why it continued to see use. When it ceased to be effective it was abandoned. Many cultures you're likely thinking of found themselves making very effective weapons but lacking the materials to make comparable armor (Celts and Native Americans are food examples). So they didn't bother. The level of protection is not directly connected to how intimidating you appear. Samurai armor is a good case. Their armor could be pretty freaky to find on the other end of a sword and was effective protection.

 LordofHats wrote:

This is true. But also remember that they would base their protection on what was available and what they needed. It's not as simple as "I'm gonna dress like a crazy mother fether to scare this guy."

I think that Picts are a good example. They famously painted themselves blue to inspire fear and gain 'magical' protection yet those who could afford it wore chainmail.

If anything "this blue paint will earn the gods favor, wear it and nothing else" was a line the chainmail wearing guys told the non-chainmail wearing guys to get them to go fight

There's also the Aztecs. They had some armor, but they threw it aside when fighting the Spainish cause brine soaked cloth doesn't stop bullets. Hence, seemingly naked men running at Cortez with sticks (actually lined with obsidian shards which can be rather nasty)

I'm afraid I don't actually have enough historical background to carry this discussion much further, but what Palindrome said above seems pretty much accurate. One of their legends talked about a great hero whose hair stood straight out from his head in battle (super saiyan Picts?) so they stuck their hair up to imitate that. I also know that they were some of the best metal workers of their time so if they wanted good armor they could have had it. What I do not know is how many of them actually wore armor or what social status that implied.

Also in modern day Africa lots of warband members do all kinds of body painting and strange costumes despite the currently available bullet resistant armored hardware. Tradition and the desire "not to look like a wimp" can account for many strange decisions.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I knew Melissia hates Space Marines (Which I disagree with, rawr!) but hating men is something I have seen little indication of.

Yeah I wouldn't say she hates men either, although she has low tolerance for sexist behaviour (which is completely reasonable imo) and at times has a callous and quite opinionated personality. That being said she often has quality posts and has interesting things to say so I appreciate

her presence online.

No mention of the Gender Swap coffin in Dark Souls 2?

 dementedwombat wrote:
Rather poor sportsmanship but if it helps you come out of a fight against a potentially stronger opponent then you can't complain too much.

Not what I would say. I would say “Rather stupid idea that is more likely to get you raped afterward (if somehow you managed to be taken alive, and maybe even if you do not ) than to “distract” your opponent”. Of course, it is a basic of psychological warfare to dress in a frightening manner. However, frightening is not the same as alluring. Some soldier frightened by his opponent is more likely to flee. Some soldier allured by his opponent is more likely not to flee. He is more likely to fight all the harder, and, again, rape afterward. And that would be one of the only situation where I would blame the “victim” too, because trying the sexually stimulate, on purpose, someone that you are actively trying to kill, and that is also actively trying to kill you, is just entering Darwin award level of self-destructive stupidity.

 dementedwombat wrote:
I potentially disagree. There are many many examples of warrior cultures in Africa/Australia/England that dressed in completely strange and nonsensical ways in order to put the opponent off balance and potentially intimidate them. Heck the old timy English natives apparently went into battle almost naked with hair spiked up and their skin died (most people think blue, but apparently it could have been orange).

Ya, but you won't find man examples of people wearing full plate with a convent cleavage window, or high heels. On the flip side you almost never see women naked covered in scars, blue paint and spiky hair in a mmo (That is my new character concept now! ). There is a difference between the deliberately sexysex outfits you see and well outfits people would actually wear.

This also relates to the old chestnut "they don't need to wear armor". Often when a character doesn't need armor, that is used as an excuse for sexy time outfits, but that is way way limiting for what that excuse could be used for. If someone doesn't have to wear armor, then they can wear whatever they want. Yes that means they can dress sexy, but that can also dress for comfort, dress to make a statement, or any other reason that I can't think of because it's early. Basically being able to wear whatever you want allows for a lot more options then the sexy one.

dementedwombat wrote:I certainly won't disagree with that, but the fact that it has a proven historical precedent means that it is a reasonable inclusion in games (at least of the Fantasy variety, which are at least loosely based on things that happened on earth in the past). This is especially true if the fighters in question come from a gladiatorial background or some other kind of stylized fighting where appearance is important.
I'm not arguing that going into battle with your fancy bits hanging out is a good idea, only that it has been done before and that there is a historical pendent why some people decided to do it.

Yeah, but said historical precedent was not to "distract the opponent" - I know this isn't your intention, but it just comes across sounding a bit cheap, like "cliché male author fantasy reasoning" that resulted in stuff like the chainmail bikini.
Besides, as has already been pointed out, the "shock" at seeing a naked lady would evaporate fairly quick if the opponent already sees it (or them ) coming. I wouldn't expect naked skin to have any distracting effect for more than a few seconds, depending on how disciplined the opponent is. Or what sexual preferences they have (if any!).

Female warriors going into battle scantly-clad or even entirely naked very likely did so for the same reasons that their male comrades did, so in most cases tradition and/or religious belief, or simply the lack of clothing/armour they could have donned. In fact, in primitive societies where fighting was a traditionally masculine thing, female warriors might even essentially become males! The Mino regiment of the Dahomey Kingdom, for example, was said to go so far in giving up womanhood that they married other girls and had female whores to service them (kinky fantasies in 3.. 2.. 1).

Let's also remember that covering up certain body parts is dependent on cultural influences - there are still places on this world where women showing their bare breasts just like men can do in the western world is simply considered everyday business rather than something special.

If our contemporary society wouldn't arbitrarily elevate a woman's boobs to some sort of forbidden fruit that you're not supposed to see outside of your bedroom, I have a hunch it'd be the same here. And yet it gets teased by suggestive advertising and sexualised character designs at every corner, as if we couldn't make up our mind.
If mankind were a person, we'd need a really good shrink to fix how messed up we are.

tl;dr: Little or no clothes can absolutely make sense (or may even be expected!) depending on a character's culture. Just don't draw the wrong conclusions, lest you may stumble into some awkward or outright sexist cliches!

LordofHats wrote: If how they are dressed can be justified via their character, I am willing to let it slide as a player from an RP perspective. From a game perspective, eye candy is enjoyable.

This is true. Most settings already offer you ample opportunity to have eye candy* whilst at the same time respecting a species'/culture's background and not come across as if you were "forcing" it - all it takes is a bit of creativity and the willingness to read up on a game's lore.



*: whether this is really a good thing depends on how we view the effect of media on the development of our society, but at least it's not as bad as if the developers didn't even care enough to come up with an excuse

nomotog wrote:Ya, but you won't find man examples of people wearing full plate with a convent cleavage window, or high heels. On the flip side you almost never see women naked covered in scars, blue paint and spiky hair in a mmo (That is my new character concept now! ).

Word!

Daba wrote:No mention of the Gender Swap coffin in Dark Souls 2?

Whut? Elaborate, please - that sounds potentially funny.

 Lynata wrote:
Let's also remember that covering up certain body parts is dependent on cultural influences - there are still places on this world where women showing their bare breasts just like men can do in the western world is simply considered everyday business rather than something special.

Got to post pictures from the kid movie Kirikou, which was made for kids and watched by kids and should therefore be completely okay to post here.
Spoilered for nudity that your kids could watch but that may offend you .

 Lynata wrote:

nomotog wrote:Ya, but you won't find man examples of people wearing full plate with a convent cleavage window, or high heels. On the flip side you almost never see women naked covered in scars, blue paint and spiky hair in a mmo (That is my new character concept now! ).

Word!

Spoiler:

Pictured: Female Gjalskerlanderin from the German P&P RPG "The Dark Eye"

Quite nice example.
Personally, no hair and only verse tatooed, but lots of scars, and directly from GW's official artwork, my previous avatar.
(Moar nudity!)

Karl Kopinski's depiction of the Repentia, the best ever imho.

 Lynata wrote:

Daba wrote:No mention of the Gender Swap coffin in Dark Souls 2?

Whut? Elaborate, please - that sounds potentially funny.

I do not know of this gender swap coffin, but http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Girdle_of_Masculinity/Femininity. Great fun, if only because you are now stuck with it and therefore cannot get any useful heargear instead .

 dementedwombat wrote:
I was actually just thinking, that a lot of the reason warrior females might dress in a manor that some audiences would think provocative is to distract their (potentially male) opponents.If you're gaping at the lady in front of you dressed entirely in a few scanty bits of leather/fabric you're much less likely to notice that lady plunging a sword through your chest. Rather poor sportsmanship but if it helps you come out of a fight against a potentially stronger opponent then you can't complain too much.

As a general rule and in spite of the edicts of modern marketing, men are not a bunch of dumb animals who are so stupid and incompetent that they are simply incapable of thinking of anything other than sex.

The fact that I have to actually SAY this is saddening.

In fairness he is mentioning that as a stretch possibility. Not something that is the obvious answer to the current issue.

 Lynata wrote:

Daba wrote:No mention of the Gender Swap coffin in Dark Souls 2?

Whut? Elaborate, please - that sounds potentially funny.

Somewhere in the game, there's this random coffin which allows you to enter it (it just has press A to enter). Your character enters, it closes and then a few seconds later opens and your character leaves.

When this happens, it swaps the gender of your character, but originally it had no explanation and due to the armour or robes the characters had, many players didn't notice until they had long left the area, and noticed that their beard was missing. Many thought it was a bug.