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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/14 03:19:09
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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I've finally decided to go with Grey Knights.
A number of things have contributed to this (cheap army for one), but the main reason is all of these Psykers summoning Daemons with the new Daemonology powers.
Someone has got to make a stand!!!
So yeah, I'm going with GK as a fluff based army more than anything else.
I've painted an army of them for a commission on their release, but never played as them or against them.
How do they work and what is good or bad in the book?
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Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/14 03:27:01
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Coteaz + mech henchmen, Draigo + pile of paladins/GKTs, Mordrak + tons of stuff that shunts, generic mech list (razorbacks, psyflemen dreads, etc.), and generic land raider lists can all work. It just depends on what you want to do.
GK is still a good enough codex that you can sort of just pick a unit you want to build your army around, and there will probably be a way to build your army around it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/14 03:29:22
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Speedy Swiftclaw Biker
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You are going to be running small, specialized squads for the most part. There is a few things that you can dabble in, assassins and inquisitor stuff for one, but it really comes down to your main squads.
From the games that I have played against the GK player in our group, it seems GK are good at rapid deployment, meaning being in your opponents face by turn two. He, and I am sure you, does this by using interceptors and a dreadknight equipped with a teleporter to be on the field while he either deep strikes the rest of his army or he flies it on.
What they do seem to lack, and what he has complained about time and time again, is stormshields, but with all of the force weapons you can hardly notice.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/14 03:54:15
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Coteaz and Henchman don't interest me.
I've seen Draigowing get tabled by T3 against Tau and Eldar.
I'm thinking a more balanced approach.
No special characters, Grand Master and a squad of Paladins, GL Librarian seems kick ass, so one of him. GKTS for troops with Halberds, a single hammer and a Psycannon.
Elites, filled with Purifiers in Rhinos and the single Paladin squad for the HQ.
Fast Attack, not too sure. I can't stand the Stormraven model, but it is a pretty good flyer.
Heavy Support, two Baby Carriers and an LRC for the HQ.
I'm thinking that the Rhinos rush up with the LRC and Baby Carriers, while the GKTS deep strike down.
I should have enough 2+ saves to ignore flyers.
Have I got the gist of it, or am I going in the wrong direction?
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Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/14 03:56:53
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Don't confuse "balanced" with "unfocused".
One-of-each armies tend to be pretty low powered, and I can't think why GK would be an exception.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/14 04:30:04
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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How is what I posted using a one of each army?
HQ
GM
Libby
Elites
Pallys
2 x Purifiers
Troops
GKTS - no more than three.
FA
Nothing.
Heavy Support
2 Dreadknights.
LRC. Automatically Appended Next Post: Sorry, I don't understand the reason behind you posting that, dude.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/14 04:34:39
Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/14 04:37:29
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
Canada
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Ailaros wrote:Coteaz + mech henchmen, Draigo + pile of paladins/GKTs, Mordrak + tons of stuff that shunts, generic mech list (razorbacks, psyflemen dreads, etc.), and generic land raider lists can all work. It just depends on what you want to do.
GK is still a good enough codex that you can sort of just pick a unit you want to build your army around, and there will probably be a way to build your army around it.
Exactly, one great way to start would be some paladins and some knights. Grey knights don't have numbers, so you need individual units ready to man mode whole units. A dreadknight is an amazing unit to buy into as are razorbacks.
Grey knights can't carry many heavy weapons so your vehicles need to do it for you. And that is how you need to bring them to the table.
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DA army: 3500pts,
admech army: 600pts
ravenguard: 565 pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/14 04:44:19
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Which Psychic disciplines do they get ATM?
Just the codex ones or some out of the rulebook?
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Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/14 04:51:11
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Puscifer wrote:Sorry, I don't understand the reason behind you posting that, dude.
A list becomes more focused when it does something well in a certain way, and when you have plenty of redundancy.
Without it, your opponent can always just kill the one or two most threatening units to whatever he's trying to do, and he'll de-fang your army with relative ease. If your opponent fears close combat, and you only bring one or two assault units, he just picks those off, and now he doesn't need to worry. Bring a CC army, and he has to table you to stop you from being a threat. Furthermore, if you bring a CC army, even people who otherwise wouldn't be afraid of CC are now suddenly afraid of CC, as you're going to overwhelm your opponent's ability to handle what might have otherwise been a handlable threat.
Focused armies are more straightforward to play, and rely less on things going exactly to plan (which is especially important in a dice game), which means they're less fragile, and they also allow you to take the initiative better because you know what you want and have plenty of tools to handle it.
What you're making is a very, very common newbie mistake.
Now, if you don't really care about list strength, then ignore everything I just said, but if you're the kind of person who will get annoyed by losing a big majority of the games they play when they first start out, then it will be better if your army has a theme, rather than just a semi-random collection of units all trying to do their own thing in their own ways.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/14 04:56:55
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Ailaros wrote:Puscifer wrote:Sorry, I don't understand the reason behind you posting that, dude.
A list becomes more focused when it does something well in a certain way, and when you have plenty of redundancy.
Without it, your opponent can always just kill the one or two most threatening units to whatever he's trying to do, and he'll de-fang your army with relative ease. If your opponent fears close combat, and you only bring one or two assault units, he just picks those off, and now he doesn't need to worry. Bring a CC army, and he has to table you to stop you from being a threat. Furthermore, if you bring a CC army, even people who otherwise wouldn't be afraid of CC are now suddenly afraid of CC, as you're going to overwhelm your opponent's ability to handle what might have otherwise been a handlable threat.
Focused armies are more straightforward to play, and rely less on things going exactly to plan (which is especially important in a dice game), which means they're less fragile, and they also allow you to take the initiative better because you know what you want and have plenty of tools to handle it.
What you're making is a very, very common newbie mistake.
Now, if you don't really care about list strength, then ignore everything I just said, but if you're the kind of person who will get annoyed by losing a big majority of the games they play when they first start out, then it will be better if your army has a theme, rather than just a semi-random collection of units all trying to do their own thing in their own ways.
Unit redundancy, I get it.
Thanks for the advice.
Thing is, GK unit redundancy is best used with purifiers, multiple Dreadknights and Pallys, if I'm correct. Also the Coateaz henchmen.
GK also don't have a lot of units that do different things. They all shoot well, they all hit as hard as a Mack truck.
I'm assuming weapon redundancy is virtually the same thing with Psycannon Spam?
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Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/14 14:19:59
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?
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If you don't like the Stormraven model as is, take a look at the true scale conversion kit Chapterhouse Studios sells for it. Makes it look a lot better.
For psychic powers, Divination is all you need. Prescience is a wonderful thing for GKs.
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"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/14 14:32:02
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren
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Give everyone psycannons. The only time I lost to a grey knight army, its because those psycannons tore me apart. Well I've only played against Grey Knights twice, but you get the idea.
I would also advise caution in taking a pure paladin army. Terminators are just not resilient against the amount of firepower most armies are putting out these days.
But Divination is always a good school. As is Telepathy. If you are going for a pure fluff army I would also check in on the Codex: Inquisition.
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DR:80+S++G++MB--IPw40k12#+D++++A++/fWD013R++T(T)DM+
"War is the greatest act of worship, and I perform it gladly for my Lord.... Praise Be"
-Invictus Potens, Black Templar Dreadnought |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/15 01:36:03
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Puscifer wrote:GK also don't have a lot of units that do different things. They all shoot well, they all hit as hard as a Mack truck.
Well, you say that, and it's an easy thing to say given just how much has stormbolters and power weapons, but it's more subtle than that. Strike squads, interceptors, and grey knight terminators have different movement profiles and deploy differently. That might not seem like a lot to a new player, but it matters. Defeating 5 deepstruck paladins is different than handling 25 strike marines charging up the table at you.
The effect may be somewhat lessened with GK (because yeah, they all have storm bolters and power weapons), but not eliminated. It's more forgiving in practice, if not in principle.
We talk about named lists like "draigowings" for a reason. Things that are a loose collection of units tend not to be successful enough for enough people to play them for them to get a name so we can talk about them more easily.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/15 01:52:10
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch
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Yaknow, basic yourself on the new powers being even VIOLABLE to the GK is not the best idea to buy yet, nor is trusting divination will be as good next month as it is today.
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can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/15 05:10:36
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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As it stands, I will be waiting until the 24th for confirmation on some info I've heard.
At the moment though, I'm having major trouble fitting in everything I want.
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Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/15 05:34:58
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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And if you want to play GK, you'll play GK, regardless of how psychic powers get tweaked.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/15 06:07:09
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Ailaros wrote:And if you want to play GK, you'll play GK, regardless of how psychic powers get tweaked.
Yup.
I'm not too fussed on their power. More so on getting it to work.
Obviously, I don't want to buy useless units though... Hence the waiting.
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Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/15 07:45:51
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Servoarm Flailing Magos
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The thing about Grey Knights is that powerful Grey Knight armies contain very little Grey Knights.
They're usually built around Coteaz and his Henchmen.
Personally, I'm getting together a force of Paladin, Terminators and a Landraider. It's 16 Grey Knights, a psyfleman, a Vindicare and a Landraider for 1750 points. It's quite fun watching an Astra player (which by the way is what I'm gonna call IG players henceforth) set up his 1750 then plopping down a vindicator, a dread and a landraider, going "I have paladin and draigo in the raider. The Terminators are in reserves."
I've been thinking about making small balls of tumbleweed to roll across my side of the board after setup.
That said, they don't win. But they're quite fun to play.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/15 07:58:57
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Here's my problem...
Point for point, a five man Paladin squad is the best troops choice in the codex.
You get access to two Psycannon, each guy has two wounds, they have an AI Pie Plate power and they are WS 5.
That squad costs 315 points.
A squad of standard GKT with one Psycannon and Psybolt Ammo is 285 points.
30 points more for twice as much stuff.
And before you say "You need Draigo", yes you do and he's much better than a standard GKGM.
The power armour squads are way too squishy and expensive for what they do.
Purifiers are great, but 10 with 4 Psycannon and Halberds is more expensive than the Paladin squad and far Squishier.
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Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/15 15:17:59
Subject: Re:Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?
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Your points are off a bit there. The 5x Paladin squad with 2 Psycannons and Psybolt ammo is 335 points. The 5x GKT squad with 1 Psycannon and Psybolt ammo is 245 points.
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"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/15 16:01:25
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Puscifer wrote:Obviously, I don't want to buy useless units though... Hence the waiting.
I wouldn't worry about it too much. They're not going to make drastic, sweeping changes to how tac marines or jump packs, or terminators work. Those are long-settled core concepts. Strike squads and interceptors and paladins are pretty unlikely to be, well, really any different at all once 7th ed drops.
That's one of the benefits to using imperium armies. They all use standard stuff that never changes. Of course, GK have a few special things, but those special things won't be changed by a change in the core rulebook, most like (any changes to how psycannons work, for example, will have to wait for a new codex).
Not to say that a core rules change can't screw things up (just ask orks when 6th ed dropped), but in this case, it's pretty unlikely. I'd start building what you want now.
As for the troops choices, you're making a common GK mistake by only looking at how many psycannons per point you can squeeze in. I mean, if you want to run paladins, then by all means, run paladins. If you're talking about what is strongest right now, I'd actually say henchmen, followed by GKT, followed by strike squads, followed by paladins, and then purifiers.
Paladins look uber beefcake until you run up against anti-tank weapons. Ap1 or 2 and S8+ means instant death on those paladins, and with all the monstrous creatures around, you're pretty much guaranteed to see some lascannons around. When they work, they work very well, but when they don't, they're just an expensive way to lose a huge chunk of your army.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/15 20:01:38
Subject: Re:Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Tannhauser42 wrote:Your points are off a bit there. The 5x Paladin squad with 2 Psycannons and Psybolt ammo is 335 points. The 5x GKT squad with 1 Psycannon and Psybolt ammo is 245 points.
I'd never add Psybolt Ammo to a 5 man Pally squad. Hence why I didn't write it in.
That's weird on the points cost. Quartermaster has it coming up at 285.
@Ailaros...
Is the GKT really that good?
I know the Henchmen are good, but I don't want to run Coateaz.
I've just heard really bad things about GKT.
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Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/15 20:16:15
Subject: Re:Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?
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Puscifer wrote: Tannhauser42 wrote:Your points are off a bit there. The 5x Paladin squad with 2 Psycannons and Psybolt ammo is 335 points. The 5x GKT squad with 1 Psycannon and Psybolt ammo is 245 points.
I'd never add Psybolt Ammo to a 5 man Pally squad. Hence why I didn't write it in.
I wouldn't use them on a 5-man squad, either, but as you did so on your GKT example above, I included it. Psybolt ammo is nearly always best used on 10-man squads (and then you can combat squad them, yay).
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"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/15 20:23:13
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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GKTs are the same as paladins against the serious anti-terminator weapons, and they do bring fewer psycannons, but, once again, the GK codex isn't just about which unit can spam the most psycannons. Also, it's easy to get too carried away with paladins. Yes, FNP for them is pretty good for lots of things, and why not add a warding stave? And then someone comes by with a vindicator or a squad of blasterborne and hundreds of points just go poof.
Also, there are the special characters to consider. Draigo is pretty cool, but he's also very expensive. Draigo and 2 5-man paladin squads with psycannons costs 905 points. For those kinds of points you can get a malleus inquisitor and 20 GKTs. Both have 20 wounds of terminators and 4 psycannons, but the GKTs put out twice as much firepower, and have twice as many close combat attacks, and are twice as durable against anti-tank weapons.
On the other hand, GKT's also get thawn, who is currently, by far, the best special character in the game. Get him to within 3" of an objective and watch as your opponent tries to handle a respawning scoring unit permanently affixed to one of his objectives. Nothing else in the game can compete with that.
So, like I said, if you know you're going up against one of a list of certain kinds of armies, draigowings are the awesomesauce. There are a lot of hard counters to draigowings, though, which makes the more conservative GKT army much stronger over all. Plus... thawn.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/16 02:10:40
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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For me the enjoyment of the GK comes from the DK, pure and simple. I happen to like the model and always have fun stomping my uber knights up the table.
The terminator models are also cool - thing is after I whack in my 3 DK, I tend not to have points left for terminators (or GKSS).
Given you are going to have a low model count (as you have excluded henchmen) I'd suggest getting the models you like the most.
Practically, the thing a GK army lacks is anti air. Coteaz + prescience in a squad with Psycannons/psybolts is a cheap and reasonably reliable way of getting some antiair.
You can do the same thing with an inquisitor for marginally cheaper, but Coteaz comes stock with a 2+ save + IBEY, which is an awesome, awesome deterrent - all for 100 points.
Otherwise, an ADL is handy (I prefer the quadcannon) (also 100 points) or a StormRaven (200+ points depending on loadout).
I just acquired an LRC/R (and am magnetising it obviously) but then went back and reread the codex to discover it wasn't a dedicated transport for anyone  . I don't think I'm going to use it, because a) DK, b) if I'm going to spend a couple hundred points plus on a vehicle, I think the Stormraven is better tactically as there is a LOT of stuff that can take out the LR quicker.
Putting GKT or Paladins into a Stormraven is handy because they are more likely to survive getting shot down.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/16 03:28:08
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Stealthy Space Wolves Scout
In ur base, killin ur d00dz
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Not sure what armies you do have but find a friend and proxy a couple different army set-ups till you find what you like. I think that's the best advice I was given before I started collecting.
See how different lists work until you find one that works on the table and works for your play style.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/16 03:58:37
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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Narrowing down choices of what I want to take a little more:
Grand Master.
Librarian or Inquisitor (Lvl 3 Libby rolling on Div (Hoping for Precognition and armed with Brain Mines and a Nemesis Stave is a Tanking beast in Challenges).
5 Man Paladin Squad (Effective command squad for GM).
10 man Terminator Squad (Will be combat squaded).
10 man Terminator Squad (Same again).
Crusader.
2 Dreadknights (Try to keep them cheap)
Imperial Knight (Paladin, if that's the one with the two shot cannon).
Tough chance on getting this down to 2k though lol. Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm completely army less ATM. Having to start from scratch again.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/16 03:59:21
Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/16 04:03:28
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Now we're getting somewhere. An all-hard-targets kind of a list.
Unless you're particularly attached to that knight, I'd suggest swapping it out for some land raiders.
If the game starts out with two land raiders and three dreadknights as the only presented targets, well, that's going to be a tough nut to crack. Plus, you also have the option of turn 1 being flat-outing the land raiders and shunting the dreadknights, and suddenly your whole army is in your opponent's deployment zone from basically turn 1.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/16 04:13:37
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The list looks fun, so if you like it go with that.
GK have no LR dedicated transports, so adding LR means taking away the DK. I'd suggest swap the LR for the Stormraven.
Note on the DK, standard loadout for mine is Heavy Incinerator and Greatsword, with Teleporters as a almost certain include. In this case, I'd drop the teleporters, because they'll be stuck out by themselves with no support.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/05/16 04:15:19
Subject: Finally decided on an army... How does it fit together?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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What?
Boo...
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