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Accolade wrote: I'm trying to compromise. I don't like the fact that the new edition is coming out so early but at the same time I want to stay relevant with people at the FLGS. So I've decided to wait until a rules-only edition of the book comes out or I can purchase just the rules on eBay for a reasonable price.
In the past I've been very supportive of GW, I have my Collector's 6th Edition, number 2144 out of 4000. It is a pretty damn nice book, I certainly won't be getting rid of it, it cost $130 at the time! But it only lasted half the time, and that to me severely decreases the value of any future books (since a significant portion of the value comes from the application of the rules themselves).
I imagine that if others are similarly-minded then sales of 7th will be affected. But of course I'm not here to shout anyone down from buying the book, more just detailing my perspective.
And I wasn't trying to claim anyone was, I was just pointing out another issue with the approach of boycotting the GW stores: they just blame the employees, not the consumer for lagging sales and replace them.
Frankly I feel an old fashioned letter writing campaign (as in actual, physical letters) would do more good. Say, to Tom Kirby about why you're not buying their stuff, or to Jervis Johnson or the Rules Team why you don't like the game, ect.
I've sent in a letter about the Sisters codex detailing a LOT of fixes for them and plan to do another one for more codex related stuff once I have the new rules in hand to work off of. And I plan to do more until they legally prevent my from doing so, or until I run out of stuff to point out and go "that is a problem". Which ever comes first.
So yeah, pick your poison and start badgering them with letters. I can even give you the address if you're willing to give it a go:
Swastakowey wrote: Well what is no longer relevant in the update with the exception of the main rule book?
That is quite an overwhelming exception, when the rulebook is coming in at £50 a pop. Especially considering that the necessary part would probably fit in short pamphlet.
Unless your alone with no gaming friends then its pretty easy to just pool together for a rule set. After many years of gaming I have only ever had one main rule book. Just one, the rest where communal. There are many ways of getting your hands on one rule book. Only need one for a group of people to play. Not one per person.
So other than buying a new book, whats the downfall?
Accolade wrote: I'm trying to compromise. I don't like the fact that the new edition is coming out so early but at the same time I want to stay relevant with people at the FLGS. So I've decided to wait until a rules-only edition of the book comes out or I can purchase just the rules on eBay for a reasonable price.
In the past I've been very supportive of GW, I have my Collector's 6th Edition, number 2144 out of 4000. It is a pretty damn nice book, I certainly won't be getting rid of it, it cost $130 at the time! But it only lasted half the time, and that to me severely decreases the value of any future books (since a significant portion of the value comes from the application of the rules themselves).
I imagine that if others are similarly-minded then sales of 7th will be affected. But of course I'm not here to shout anyone down from buying the book, more just detailing my perspective.
And I wasn't trying to claim anyone was, I was just pointing out another issue with the approach of boycotting the GW stores: they just blame the employees, not the consumer for lagging sales and replace them.
Frankly I feel an old fashioned letter writing campaign (as in actual, physical letters) would do more good. Say, to Tom Kirby about why you're not buying their stuff, or to Jervis Johnson or the Rules Team why you don't like the game, ect.
I've sent in a letter about the Sisters codex detailing a LOT of fixes for them and plan to do another one for more codex related stuff once I have the new rules in hand to work off of. And I plan to do more until they legally prevent my from doing so, or until I run out of stuff to point out and go "that is a problem". Which ever comes first.
So yeah, pick your poison and start badgering them with letters. I can even give you the address if you're willing to give it a go:
[Recipient] Willow Road Lenton Nottingham NG7 2WS
Huh, wait? Oh, no sorry Zion wasn't trying to accuse you of anything, more just going off of what you were saying to continue the conversation beyond the separate on that was sort of going
I *will* actually have to consider writing that letter, now that I've taken the LE book out of its protective case I'm feeling more frustration than earlier.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/15 00:11:17
Swastakowey wrote: Unless your alone with no gaming friends then its pretty easy to just pool together for a rule set. After many years of gaming I have only ever had one main rule book. Just one, the rest where communal. There are many ways of getting your hands on one rule book. Only need one for a group of people to play. Not one per person.
So other than buying a new book, whats the downfall?
What so now you have to be in a fething syndicate just to afford Games Workshop? There is no "besides" the rule books are the whole point. You have to buy a new book, sooner or later you'll have to buy a new codex, then perhaps a supplement, then another new rule book. Many people feel they are too expensive and not good value.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/15 00:24:42
Swastakowey wrote: Unless your alone with no gaming friends then its pretty easy to just pool together for a rule set. After many years of gaming I have only ever had one main rule book. Just one, the rest where communal. There are many ways of getting your hands on one rule book. Only need one for a group of people to play. Not one per person.
So other than buying a new book, whats the downfall?
What so now you have to be in a fething syndicate just to afford Games Workshop? There is no "besides" the rule books are the whole point. You have to buy a new book, sooner or later you'll have to buy a new codex, then perhaps a supplement, then another new rule book. Many people feel they are too expensive and not good value.
If you think its too expensive and not good value, then I personally think its as simple as not buying it.
And no you dont need to be in a large group. I simply put out some ways of going around the cost of a hobby. And the best way of cutting costs is spreading it out.
Unless you hate any edition changes, I dont see what the problem is really. If all you can see is a new book, rather than any improvement in game rules, then maybe you need to look at why you are getting these books. Or simply play an older edition. Im sure if you have people that feel the same way in your area, this will be easy to do. Plus you will never have to buy more books again. Seems like your best solution.
Swastakowey wrote: Unless your alone with no gaming friends then its pretty easy to just pool together for a rule set. After many years of gaming I have only ever had one main rule book. Just one, the rest where communal. There are many ways of getting your hands on one rule book. Only need one for a group of people to play. Not one per person.
So other than buying a new book, whats the downfall?
What so now you have to be in a fething syndicate just to afford Games Workshop? There is no "besides" the rule books are the whole point. You have to buy a new book, sooner or later you'll have to buy a new codex, then perhaps a supplement, then another new rule book. Many people feel they are too expensive and not good value.
If you think its too expensive and not good value, then I personally think its as simple as not buying it.
And no you dont need to be in a large group. I simply put out some ways of going around the cost of a hobby. And the best way of cutting costs is spreading it out.
Unless you hate any edition changes, I dont see what the problem is really. If all you can see is a new book, rather than any improvement in game rules, then maybe you need to look at why you are getting these books. Or simply play an older edition. Im sure if you have people that feel the same way in your area, this will be easy to do. Plus you will never have to buy more books again. Seems like your best solution.
And perhaps you need to stop making these "why don't you just..." and "if you're not happy, perhaps this isn't for you :sadface:" arguments and statements. Regardless of whether they're coming from a place of genuine thought and opinion, or you're deliberately doing it to antagonise, I've seen you say it to enough people across enough threads and get enough responses that you know the likely reaction it'll provoke.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
The only bad thing that person said was that they had to buy new rules. Thats it. So either they say this every edition, or they are just complaining for the sake of it.
The only negative is that its come out so soon. (rules are subjective though). So whats so bad besides that one single point that invokes so much anger from you people?
The rules sound great? May not be perfect but now you can at least try stop the eldar player from buffing his troops, at least skimmers cant move an inch, get a save and fight at full efficiency, hull points are rumored to change and so on. So its all pretty decent sounding in my opinion and im just curious as to whats really the big issue besides buying a new book? And that cost can be mitigated in many ways.
Yeah I sorta see where you are coming from.. but just because I could be way worse (it pretty much always can be!) doesnt mean this is good news. I cant bring myself to call this a win when at the end of the day the pricks are releasing another set of rules less than two years after I bought the last one!
I will wait and maybe pick up a mini rulebook when they inevitably release one, but 50 quid isn't "cheap" when I just bloody bought one!
Seriously.. I know there MO by now. They will blatantly release another box set in a few months even if the rumored one is a hoax, and when they do, Ill go halves with a mate and get plenty of great models for cheap, and then we can share the RB.
But 50 nicker for another big book when I recently bought one is not happening, they can kiss my cracker-sack!
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
Swastakowey wrote: The only bad thing that person said was that they had to buy new rules. Thats it. So either they say this every edition, or they are just complaining for the sake of it.
The only negative is that its come out so soon. (rules are subjective though). So whats so bad besides that one single point that invokes so much anger from you people?
The rules sound great? May not be perfect but now you can at least try stop the eldar player from buffing his troops, at least skimmers cant move an inch, get a save and fight at full efficiency, hull points are rumored to change and so on. So its all pretty decent sounding in my opinion and im just curious as to whats really the big issue besides buying a new book? And that cost can be mitigated in many ways.
It is a significant departure from a pattern of behaviour that's been established since the 80s. It is a departure whose motivation is most simply explained as an attempt to extract more cash out of an ailing customer base to shore up poor financial results which only really happened because of repeated similar abuses of the customer base in the first place.
I'm more interested to see what changes we'll see than annoyed at the ham fisted manipulation, but anyone who feels the opposite way I completely understand where they're coming from.
Oh, and "you people?" Classy.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
GW are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I know that I'd personally rather they release a new ruleset if they have one they feel is better than sit on it for two years because people have gotten used to an arbitrary four year cycle.
Nobody has to buy 7th, even people who want to play games of 7th. We'll know every change under the sun once the book is out, because internet, and once DV is updated with a new mini book, that'll be £20 on ebay. £20 every two years on rules is cool with me.
"If you don't have Funzo, you're nothin'!"
"I'm cancelling you out of shame, like my subscription to white dwarf"
Never use a long word where a short one will do.
Swastakowey wrote: If you think its too expensive and not good value, then I personally think its as simple as not buying it.
Exactly! Now you've just come around full circle. As I have already said, people who are committed to their army and want to keep playing are being forced out by the price. Thus they are in fact being screwed.
And no you dont need to be in a large group. I simply put out some ways of going around the cost of a hobby. And the best way of cutting costs is spreading it out.
Why should you need to share books? I have loads of book in my house, I even own book shelves, they don't cost that much. Normally if I want a book I go out and buy the book. Then it's my book, I can take it with me to bed, or read it on the toilet, and I don't expect to have a whole gaming group in there with me.
then maybe you need to look at why you are getting these books. Or simply play an older edition. Im sure if you have people that feel the same way in your area, this will be easy to do. Plus you will never have to buy more books again. Seems like your best solution.
It is the best solution. I don't buy books from GW anymore, thankfully I didn't bother buying 6th ed. I don't even play 40k much any more. Most of my friends quit playing years ago because of the prices. I still have my armies though, and I resent that I'm expected to shell out something like £100+ just so I can up to date enough to play some pick up games.
Sadly the best option is the one we're not supposed to talk about, but it shouldn't have to be that way.
Swastakowey wrote: The only bad thing that person said was that they had to buy new rules. Thats it. So either they say this every edition, or they are just complaining for the sake of it.
The only negative is that its come out so soon. (rules are subjective though). So whats so bad besides that one single point that invokes so much anger from you people?
The rules sound great? May not be perfect but now you can at least try stop the eldar player from buffing his troops, at least skimmers cant move an inch, get a save and fight at full efficiency, hull points are rumored to change and so on. So its all pretty decent sounding in my opinion and im just curious as to whats really the big issue besides buying a new book? And that cost can be mitigated in many ways.
It is a significant departure from a pattern of behaviour that's been established since the 80s. It is a departure whose motivation is most simply explained as an attempt to extract more cash out of an ailing customer base to shore up poor financial results which only really happened because of repeated similar abuses of the customer base in the first place.
I'm more interested to see what changes we'll see than annoyed at the ham fisted manipulation, but anyone who feels the opposite way I completely understand where they're coming from.
Oh, and "you people?" Classy.
Very sorry, here "you people" isnt really a bad thing... People say it all the time in my town as a casual grouping of people you are talking to ish kinda thing.
I see where you guys are coming from, but I think in the case of 7th its been blown out of proportion in terms of negativity. For the first time in many releases I see far more potential actually happening than ever before. Not like for example the imperial guard codex which HAD HEAPS of potential, but came out with non of it, this release seems different. It never had potential (we all thought it was gonna be crap) but I think its really turned around and if many rumors hold true it might be a huge benefit rather than a detriment.
I do like that GW has taken everybody's complaints into consideration and dealt with them. There is a bloat of new info?new rules that shows they are paying attention to what the tourny player vs the casual player wants. They are doing their damnedest to appease both sects and IMHO not doing a bad job. It was killing me with the lack of FAQs towards the end of last edition. I agree this is where 40,000 lives or dies....I am on the side of "lives" for sure, love 80% of the new rules so far......
Swastakowey wrote: The only bad thing that person said was that they had to buy new rules. Thats it. So either they say this every edition, or they are just complaining for the sake of it.
The only negative is that its come out so soon. (rules are subjective though). So whats so bad besides that one single point that invokes so much anger from you people?
The rules sound great? May not be perfect but now you can at least try stop the eldar player from buffing his troops, at least skimmers cant move an inch, get a save and fight at full efficiency, hull points are rumored to change and so on. So its all pretty decent sounding in my opinion and im just curious as to whats really the big issue besides buying a new book? And that cost can be mitigated in many ways.
It is a significant departure from a pattern of behaviour that's been established since the 80s. It is a departure whose motivation is most simply explained as an attempt to extract more cash out of an ailing customer base to shore up poor financial results which only really happened because of repeated similar abuses of the customer base in the first place.
I'm more interested to see what changes we'll see than annoyed at the ham fisted manipulation, but anyone who feels the opposite way I completely understand where they're coming from.
Oh, and "you people?" Classy.
Very sorry, here "you people" isnt really a bad thing... People say it all the time in my town as a casual grouping of people you are talking to ish kinda thing.
I see where you guys are coming from, but I think in the case of 7th its been blown out of proportion in terms of negativity. For the first time in many releases I see far more potential actually happening than ever before. Not like for example the imperial guard codex which HAD HEAPS of potential, but came out with non of it, this release seems different. It never had potential (we all thought it was gonna be crap) but I think its really turned around and if many rumors hold true it might be a huge benefit rather than a detriment.
No, "you people" is antagonistic as it is indicative of you're thinking of yourself as separate from the people you're talking with, I'd even say superior if I wanted to be really uncharitable.
You did it again with "you guys." Assuming as you've quoted me you're addressing me, and therefore you're including me in the group of people you're characterising as being angry about a new book, you're flat out wrong. As my only comments I've made ITT should indicate, I'm actually not that bothered and more interested in whether it just makes the game better or not.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Swastakowey wrote: The only bad thing that person said was that they had to buy new rules. Thats it. So either they say this every edition, or they are just complaining for the sake of it.
The problem isn't that you have to buy new rules, the problem is you have to buy new rules AND fluff AND hobby supplement, making the rules 150% more expensive than they need to be.
Swastakowey wrote: The only bad thing that person said was that they had to buy new rules. Thats it. So either they say this every edition, or they are just complaining for the sake of it.
The problem isn't that you have to buy new rules, the problem is you have to buy new rules AND fluff AND hobby supplement, making the rules 150% more expensive than they need to be.
True, but at least you no longer have to carry all three if you ever want to use it. Ill probably just leave the other parts out to gather dust as I use the now smaller and (hopefully) better book for rules.
But they have always sold rules + fluff + hobby supplement havent they? Just this time they added expansions in too so even if it werent separate it would still be more expensive. Will this book be full cover like the latest codices? If so then yea it was probably gonna be more expensive regardless.
I will note I hate the hardback full colour Codices. Needless and expensive, but at least the rule book actually has advantages to make it more pricey.
Azreal: I said you guys because I thought you people was offensive when you pointed that out... Im fairly sure I have read Americans and the like saying you guys, just thought it was a better phrase to use...
Swastakowey wrote: The only bad thing that person said was that they had to buy new rules. Thats it. So either they say this every edition, or they are just complaining for the sake of it.
The problem isn't that you have to buy new rules, the problem is you have to buy new rules AND fluff AND hobby supplement, making the rules 150% more expensive than they need to be.
Yeah exactly. If they sold the fething mini-rulebook separately for a tenner I would happily go out and buy it.
Well.. maybe not happily. A little bit begrudgingly.
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
It isn't the phrase itself, it is what it connotes. Saying "you whatevers" is just suggesting that you're positioning yourself on some sort of moral high ground and mentally separating yourself from everyone else. This sort of language may antagonise.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
It isn't the phrase itself, it is what it connotes. Saying "you whatevers" is just suggesting that you're positioning yourself on some sort of moral high ground and mentally separating yourself from everyone else. This sort of language may antagonise.
Not where I am. Its pretty common to say you people, or you guys, or you girls, you kids etc. Gets said all the time at work and with friends. I mean, saying something "like you fools" is something offensive, but not really you people or you guys... I can kinda see what you mean maybe? ish? But if its really that big of a deal to some people ill simply just say something else instead.
Swastakowey wrote: But they have always sold rules + fluff + hobby supplement havent they?
The difference is 1st and 2nd edition were complete rule sets. They contained all the rules and fluff, including the rules for every unit in every army. 2nd edition managed to do this in less than 200 pages (and still had room for evey metal pages). Those books were literally crammed with stuff. The codex books were expansions which had more detail and contained rules for some of the newer releases, but you didn't need them (especially since most of the rules were in WD or came in the box with the unit). And they only cost £10 each!
Since 4th edition however they don't even try and include the rules for the armies, because they'd rather sell you those in a codex. Codex is no longer optional but essential. They don't even include and basic list of weapon stats. The rule book has way way less content now, but for some reason it's 300 pages longer? And they want £50 for it. It doesn't seem that long ago you could buy the whole box set with two starter armies for £50.
It isn't the phrase itself, it is what it connotes. Saying "you whatevers" is just suggesting that you're positioning yourself on some sort of moral high ground and mentally separating yourself from everyone else. This sort of language may antagonise.
I understand you completely. "You people" implies that I am just "one of those people", those malcontent people who are all the same, rather than an individual with my own opinions. Even if a large number of other people feel the same way on this one issue.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/15 01:31:53
It isn't the phrase itself, it is what it connotes. Saying "you whatevers" is just suggesting that you're positioning yourself on some sort of moral high ground and mentally separating yourself from everyone else. This sort of language may antagonise.
Not where I am. Its pretty common to say you people, or you guys, or you girls, you kids etc. Gets said all the time at work and with friends. I mean, saying something "like you fools" is something offensive, but not really you people or you guys... I can kinda see what you mean maybe? ish? But if its really that big of a deal to some people ill simply just say something else instead.
Ok, go into work tomorrow, begin the day by approaching a group of your colleagues and saying something like "what is the matter with you people?" Let me know how it goes!
Oooh, or better yet, find the biggest, angriest Maori you can, and say it to him!
As a phrase, regardless of whether you think it does or not, it compartmentalises the addressed party while simultaneously implying you're removing yourself from whatever group you think you're addressing.
But I'm done educating you, my point was, and remains, whether you sincerely believe it or not, you repeatedly make very similar arguments which you should have figured out tend to provoke a certain response, and as such, if you continue to do so, then, really, all you're doing is flame baiting and that's against forum rules.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/15 01:26:22
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
It isn't the phrase itself, it is what it connotes. Saying "you whatevers" is just suggesting that you're positioning yourself on some sort of moral high ground and mentally separating yourself from everyone else. This sort of language may antagonise.
Not where I am. Its pretty common to say you people, or you guys, or you girls, you kids etc. Gets said all the time at work and with friends. I mean, saying something "like you fools" is something offensive, but not really you people or you guys... I can kinda see what you mean maybe? ish? But if its really that big of a deal to some people ill simply just say something else instead.
Ok, go into work tomorrow, begin the day by approaching a group of your colleagues and saying something like "what is the matter with you people?" Let me know how it goes!
Oooh, or better yet, find the biggest, angriest Maori you can, and say it to him!
As a phrase, regardless of whether you think it does or not, it compartmentalises the addressed party while simultaneously implying you're removing yourself from whatever group you think you're addressing.
But I'm done educating you, my point was, and remains, whether you sincerely believe it or not, you repeatedly make very similar arguments which you should have figured out tend to provoke a certain response, and as such, if you continue to do so, then, really, all you're doing is flame baiting and that's against forum rules.
Think what you want, but if you are reading things on the internet just remember to read it in an emotionless way. You may not be antagonized so much. I only have one boss so not much point saying you something to him. But I already say that to plenty of the workers. I also had a Maori mother, and I talk to my family like anybody else. haven't been beaten yet.
Swastakowey wrote: But they have always sold rules + fluff + hobby supplement havent they?
The difference is 1st and 2nd edition were complete rule sets. They contained all the rules and fluff, including the rules for every unit in every army. 2nd edition managed to do this in less than 200 pages (and still had room for evey metal pages). Those books were literally crammed with stuff. The codex books were expansions which had more detail and contained rules for some of the newer releases, but you didn't need them (especially since most of the rules were in WD or came in the box with the unit).
Since 4th edition however they don't even try and include the rules for the armies, because they'd rather sell you those in a codex. Codex is no longer optional but essential. They don't even include and basic list of weapon stats. The rule book has way way less content now, but for some reason it's 300 pages longer? And they want £50 for it. It doesn't seem that long ago you could buy the whole box set with two starter armies for £50.
I see, well as you have guessed I havent been playing for that long haha, well yea I see your point there. Well in that case, it may not be the best, but its better than 6th edition. In my opinion.
I'm not in the least bit antagonised, but the language people choose to use speaks volumes about what they really think about the people they're talking to.
This has been most insightful.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
azreal13 wrote: I'm not in the least bit antagonised, but the language people choose to use speaks volumes about what they really think about the people they're talking to.
This has been most insightful.
You are welcome then. Always happy to help people find insight.
Smacks wrote: The difference is 1st and 2nd edition were complete rule sets. They contained all the rules and fluff, including the rules for every unit in every army. 2nd edition managed to do this in less than 200 pages (and still had room for evey metal pages). Those books were literally crammed with stuff. The codex books were expansions which had more detail and contained rules for some of the newer releases, but you didn't need them (especially since most of the rules were in WD or came in the box with the unit). And they only cost £10 each!
Just to play devils advocate about that, the codexes used to be a fair bit thinner too, especially at the start of 2nd edition.
That said I would LOVE if they gave EVERY army an update in the core rulebook and then released updates for them as codexes (with new models and the like) a bit down the road (say, starting once a quarter starting after 6 months or so when we start frothing at the bit for new releases).
There, now no army is lagged, all they really had to do was copy and past the old codex rules into the new book, slap in the errattas maybe tweak a rule or two (and some points costs) they'd make anyways with the new codex and everyone is happy/happier/less grouchy/whatever. And yes, still release the errattas for anyone who doesn't just want to have to use that part of the rulebook all the time too (with the split books it could be the 4th book, hell we could even call it "The Astronomican" as a nod to the old black books).
Add it to my list of "things I would do differently" I guess. Right up there with releasing new units in the WD months in advance to give time for player testing and feedback before the final version. This way the WD is useful the models are being sold instead of waiting for the new codex and everyone is happy. Then the codex release can focus on updating old kits and adjusting rules/points costs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/15 04:06:16
Smacks wrote: The difference is 1st and 2nd edition were complete rule sets. They contained all the rules and fluff, including the rules for every unit in every army. 2nd edition managed to do this in less than 200 pages (and still had room for evey metal pages). Those books were literally crammed with stuff. The codex books were expansions which had more detail and contained rules for some of the newer releases, but you didn't need them (especially since most of the rules were in WD or came in the box with the unit). And they only cost £10 each!
Just to play devils advocate about that, the codexes used to be a fair bit thinner too, especially at the start of 2nd edition.
That said I would LOVE if they gave EVERY army an update in the core rulebook and then released updates for them as codexes (with new models and the like) a bit down the road (say, starting once a quarter starting after 6 months or so when we start frothing at the bit for new releases).
There, now no army is lagged, all they really had to do was copy and past the old codex rules into the new book, slap in the errattas maybe tweak a rule or two (and some points costs) they'd make anyways with the new codex and everyone is happy/happier/less grouchy/whatever. And yes, still release the errattas for anyone who doesn't just want to have to use that part of the rulebook all the time too (with the split books it could be the 4th book, hell we could even call it "The Astronomican" as a nod to the old black books).
Add it to my list of "things I would do differently" I guess. Right up there with releasing new units in the WD months in advance to give time for player testing and feedback before the final version. This way the WD is useful the models are being sold instead of waiting for the new codex and everyone is happy. Then the codex release can focus on updating old kits and adjusting rules/points costs.
Yeah, I think that will do wonders for GW, since it is a common release schedule most gaming companies (like PP and Corvus Belli). Granted I still think that they will have to make you pay (where as you really do not need the expansion since you can get info from it with the miniatures you get or online officially), but I think that this would be a great tactic for Games Workshop to if everyone gets something and works out more as an expansion than a full on codex.
The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
2nd Ed Codices were not thin. I think you're thinking of 3rd Ed books, which essentially removed the lengthy fluff sections and had the army list start almost immediately. That only really changed when they need to introduce new things (Tau, 'Crons) and with the 3.5 Chaos Codex.
H.B.M.C. wrote: 2nd Ed Codices were not thin. I think you're thinking of 3rd Ed books, which essentially removed the lengthy fluff sections and had the army list start almost immediately. That only really changed when they need to introduce new things (Tau, 'Crons) and with the 3.5 Chaos Codex.
No, I mean at the start of 2nd edition there was a lot less of everything and that's why it all fit into a sub-200 page book so easily. I feel that even sans the fluff that such a thing would end up being a bit thicker now (more armies than the start of 2nd for one).
H.B.M.C. wrote: 2nd Ed Codices were not thin. I think you're thinking of 3rd Ed books, which essentially removed the lengthy fluff sections and had the army list start almost immediately. That only really changed when they need to introduce new things (Tau, 'Crons) and with the 3.5 Chaos Codex.
No, I mean at the start of 2nd edition there was a lot less of everything and that's why it all fit into a sub-200 page book so easily. I feel that even sans the fluff that such a thing would end up being a bit thicker now (more armies than the start of 2nd for one).
Oh yeah completely, there was way less stuff back then, Tau and Necrons weren't in either (although squats and ad-mech were). I don't really want to get into the whole "everything was better before". Codex imperials wasn't a thick book, it was about the same thickness as a White Dwarf, but they still got all the major units in there. With a book the size of the BRB they could easily fit all the modern stuff in there. Then it might actually be worth £50.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/15 05:23:37
Sorry. It's 2014. I'm not going to give them a treat and rub their belly because they briefly spoke about their new product on YouTube.
I won't be buying into 7th Edition, either. I fully support a business' right to make money off its products, but I also support a consumer's right to not buy those products when they recognize a terrible deal.
