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So, motorcycles are probably amongst the most dangerous vehicles on the planet. Why on earth would riding a motorcycle give you a +1 to Toughness? If anything, I would expect a common-sense -1 to Toughness.

Representing the chance to hit a non vital part of the bike I'd assume.

Because a Bolter round hitting the fender will do a lot less damage than a Bolter round hitting YOU.

well, these aren't your typical crotch rocket bikes we have either.

A space marine on a bike would easily be as big as a normal car. Those wheels are HUGE!

Because riding a motorcycle is so manly that you become that much harder.

OK...you guys got me back into suspension of disbelief sufficiently.

I think it'd be cool if they had a dismount chart or something...but it doesn't bother me in-game or anything.

 jasper76 wrote:
So, motorcycles are probably amongst the most dangerous vehicles on the planet. Why on earth would riding a motorcycle give you a +1 to Toughness? If anything, I would expect a common-sense -1 to Toughness.

Because statting a 10 man SM bike squad as vehicles was a horrible thing to have to work with in-game. GW wanted to make 40K something other than WHFB in space, so they couldn't use the +1 armor save for cavalry (which my Rough Riders would kill for) which made +1T the only option. Does it make sense? As much sense as a .75 cal full auto RPG only killing an average human 2/3 of the time.

Have you ever seen a guy who rides a motorcycle NOT look tougher? :-)

 slowthar wrote:
Have you ever seen a guy who rides a motorcycle NOT look tougher? :-)

I know right.

Realistically, it shouldn't. A bolter round hitting a bike would probably do unpleasant things to the bike, if nothing else potentially causing it to lose control, not to mention being a larger and much easier to hit target. Nothing about being on a bike should make them tougher.

Bikes in 40k don't really make any sense, it's best not to think about them. They wouldn't be good shooting platforms at all (bikes aren't really all that stable and trying to aim at anything specific with the way the guns are mounted would be impossible) They have the same problem with CC, someone on a bike isn't just going to drive up and start fighting hand to hand combat and sit there on the bike, they'd get murdered pretty quickly that way, whereas realistically they'd ride in, swing once, and ride through and away.

TL;DR 40k bikes are silly in the extreme and don't make any rational sense, think of them as remodeled WHFB cavalry and just accept the sillyness.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Realistically, it shouldn't. A bolter round hitting a bike would probably do unpleasant things to the bike, if nothing else potentially causing it to lose control, not to mention being a larger and much easier to hit target. Nothing about being on a bike should make them tougher.

Bikes in 40k don't really make any sense, it's best not to think about them. They wouldn't be good shooting platforms at all (bikes aren't really all that stable and trying to aim at anything specific with the way the guns are mounted would be impossible) They have the same problem with CC, someone on a bike isn't just going to drive up and start fighting hand to hand combat and sit there on the bike, they'd get murdered pretty quickly that way, whereas realistically they'd ride in, swing once, and ride through and away.

TL;DR 40k bikes are silly in the extreme and don't make any rational sense, think of them as remodeled WHFB cavalry and just accept the sillyness.

Also 40k is basically all of Science Fiction and most of Fantasy blended together with metal.

Orks in spikey armor wielding chainchoppas riding bikes spouting exhaust and fire is metal as hell.

I always figured the bikes were made from material that is at least as strong as a Leman Russ's armor, thus if it get hit by small arms fire it would not be effective. Far easier to just kill the dude riding it.

 slowthar wrote:
Have you ever seen a guy who rides a motorcycle NOT look tougher? :-)

Well, I've come across I think like 4 motorcycle accidents, and in each case, the guy driving the car ended up looking a whole lot tougher than the guy driving the motorcycle.

As someone who has smacked a deer while on a motorcycle traveling 55-60 Mph...

First off power armor really takes away some of the pain that a NON armored person would feel. Hello leather, but compared to power armor = nothing. So I refute your "most dangerous vehicle on the planet" while wearing power armor.

Secondly, Rule of cool guys.

Rawrgyle wrote:
As someone who has smacked a deer while on a motorcycle traveling 55-60 Mph...

First off power armor really takes away some of the pain that a NON armored person would feel. Hello leather, but compared to power armor = nothing. So I refute your "most dangerous vehicle on the planet" while wearing power armor.

Ummm....are you saying you've been in a motorcycle accident while wearing power armor???

If power armour will stop hevey bolter rounds, phsyker powers, and such impacts a moterbike crash is not much

jhe90 wrote:
If power armour will stop hevey bolter rounds, phsyker powers, and such impacts a moterbike crash is not much

Are there any rules for a motorbike crash? LOTR has rules for being dismounted fom cavalry, but I don't think any such analogue exists in 40k for bikes...it would be cooler if it did. Something like a thrown rider is an immediate casualty since he can't keep up with his unit...or something.

 jasper76 wrote:

Rawrgyle wrote:
As someone who has smacked a deer while on a motorcycle traveling 55-60 Mph...

First off power armor really takes away some of the pain that a NON armored person would feel. Hello leather, but compared to power armor = nothing. So I refute your "most dangerous vehicle on the planet" while wearing power armor.

Ummm....are you saying you've been in a motorcycle accident while wearing power armor???

LMAO no, but after re reading it I see where it comes off that way.

Rawrgyle wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

Rawrgyle wrote:
As someone who has smacked a deer while on a motorcycle traveling 55-60 Mph...

First off power armor really takes away some of the pain that a NON armored person would feel. Hello leather, but compared to power armor = nothing. So I refute your "most dangerous vehicle on the planet" while wearing power armor.

Ummm....are you saying you've been in a motorcycle accident while wearing power armor???

LMAO no, but after re reading it I see where it comes off that way.

Maybe they inject their bikers with pain killers?

Because I have been in 3 motorcycle accidents and I can tell you I am definitely +1 toughness after having ridden motorcycles than I was before I started riding them.

It is probably due to the fact that a projectile hitting the bike does a lot less damage than a projectile hitting you (mostly due to the aerodynamic shape of the bike which guides the projectiles around it rather than catching it). I know my bike got hit by some gravel chunks while going 60 mph and while it was difficult to keep control it was certainly less damaging than if gravel hit me at 60 mph.

Also keep in mind that most of the mass of bikes in 40K would be massive and most of them would be 50% armour plating whereas most street bikes are 60-70% engine, I am talking mass of the bike. The 40K engines are tiny.

I hate bikes in 40k too. So When I face space marines I have to pretend (along with almost everything space marine related) that the plus one toughness is just there to represent being harder to hit. Just its not included in the to hit roll to make it easier.

In reality a bullet hitting a bike would jolt it, resulting in worse damage over all. If your front wheel was hit you probably be a crippled marine with no bike.

So yea, just pretend its an abstract way of being harder to hit...

The majority of 40k does not take place on Earth.

When you look at how huge and armoured a SM bike is, it becomes more believable. Those things are basically 2-wheel tanks and very well-plated.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Realistically, it shouldn't. A bolter round hitting a bike would probably do unpleasant things to the bike, if nothing else potentially causing it to lose control, not to mention being a larger and much easier to hit target. Nothing about being on a bike should make them tougher.

Bikes in 40k don't really make any sense, it's best not to think about them. They wouldn't be good shooting platforms at all (bikes aren't really all that stable and trying to aim at anything specific with the way the guns are mounted would be impossible) They have the same problem with CC, someone on a bike isn't just going to drive up and start fighting hand to hand combat and sit there on the bike, they'd get murdered pretty quickly that way, whereas realistically they'd ride in, swing once, and ride through and away.

TL;DR 40k bikes are silly in the extreme and don't make any rational sense, think of them as remodeled WHFB cavalry and just accept the sillyness.

Except chaos bikes. Because warp.

Compared to the amount of bullpies that chaos spouts, bikers make sense

 jasper76 wrote:

jhe90 wrote:
If power armour will stop hevey bolter rounds, phsyker powers, and such impacts a moterbike crash is not much

Are there any rules for a motorbike crash? LOTR has rules for being dismounted fom cavalry, but I don't think any such analogue exists in 40k for bikes...it would be cooler if it did. Something like a thrown rider is an immediate casualty since he can't keep up with his unit...or something.

2nd Edition did have rules, because bikes were considered vehicles back then (hence my earlier comment that statting a 10 man SM squad out as vehicles was a nightmare... because it *was*) and they could be hit seperately from the rider. Hits were randomized between the rider and biker. Hits against the rider were typical rolls to wound against Toughness (with no +1; it was normal Toughness) and hits against the bike were rolls to penetrate armor as per vehicles. A biker who had his ride shot out from under him could continue to fight on foot as an IC.

Bikes could also ram, as per vehicle rules. Just try to imagine a SM bike ramming a Chaos Marine Land Raider to death.

Any bikes rididen in this setting look much sturdier than real bikes. So they would obvisly be able to take a few shots away from the rider.

Every ork knows having a bike makes you tougher.

 jasper76 wrote:
OK...you guys got me back into suspension of disbelief sufficiently.

I think it'd be cool if they had a dismount chart or something...but it doesn't bother me in-game or anything.

Try and find a copy of 2nd, Bikes were treated as their own vehicles, with their own damage charts and effects etc (and that gak was a LOT more involved back then than Shaken/Stunned etc)

 Kain wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Realistically, it shouldn't. A bolter round hitting a bike would probably do unpleasant things to the bike, if nothing else potentially causing it to lose control, not to mention being a larger and much easier to hit target. Nothing about being on a bike should make them tougher.

Bikes in 40k don't really make any sense, it's best not to think about them. They wouldn't be good shooting platforms at all (bikes aren't really all that stable and trying to aim at anything specific with the way the guns are mounted would be impossible) They have the same problem with CC, someone on a bike isn't just going to drive up and start fighting hand to hand combat and sit there on the bike, they'd get murdered pretty quickly that way, whereas realistically they'd ride in, swing once, and ride through and away.

TL;DR 40k bikes are silly in the extreme and don't make any rational sense, think of them as remodeled WHFB cavalry and just accept the sillyness.

Also 40k is basically all of Science Fiction and most of Fantasy blended together with metal.

Orks in spikey armor wielding chainchoppas riding bikes spouting exhaust and fire is metal as hell.

"Run to the hills!
Run for your life!"
-Iron Maiden